Faithlife Now Selling Books that Mock God and Promote Atheism

Page 2 of 4 (73 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 72 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 11226
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 3:18 PM

Matthew ... your points illustrate why to buy the book.

She's ahead of you visa viz warm-blooded mammals who likely live at your house but are not faced with the extermal testacles.

This isn't to argue you're wrong .... only to argue that you are not familiar with the next chess move.

The interesting one is cancerous elephants.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2088
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 3:54 PM

I don't understand why as Christians, our first instinct when we come across something with which we disagree is to snuff it out.  We have to learn from both those with whom we agree and disagree.  For example, I strongly disagree with Bart Ehrman's popular level works, but I wish all of his books were available in Logos.  If we don't know the other side, then how can we argue against it where appropriate?

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 4:05 PM

I figure all who know me well know I don't mind having controversial works in Vyrso and Logos. I was just surprised by such an elementary flaw by Dr. Abby.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 29753
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 4:30 PM

Matthew C Jones:
I was just surprised by such an elementary flaw by Dr. Abby.

Have you read the book? If not, you're not well-informed on the context and reason for her statement. Deliberately provocative statements are frequently rhetorical to elicit a particular response not the conclusion of a line of argument.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 4126
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 4:31 PM

The question of this thread is whether a particular book by Dr. Abby Hafer is appropriate for the Vyrso storefront. The Vyrso slogan/self-descriptor that appears prominently on the website is "Christian Ebooks".

Dr. Abby Hafer is apparently not a Christian, so its author does not justify the book's presence on Vyrso.

Is the book's subject matter such that it can be called Christian? It would seem not.

Should Vyrso.com, with its present "Christian Ebooks" slogan, sell non-Christian ebooks?

Perhaps not.

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 4:37 PM

WIll someone answer this question. Why does the Title on their Website say Vyrso Christian Ebooks?  We can argue whether or not this book should be sold but when it is listed on a web sight that says Christian Ebooks when the book is anti Christian I think this is wrong.

Posts 1083
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 5:11 PM

I'm all for understanding alternative points of view - even (especially?) those we disagree with - but at least as described in the promotional materials and  published reviews, this particular title does seem a bit far afield for what I would expect from FaithLife. One review describes it as "a politically edgy treatment of intelligent design". The author is also described as having realized that "what we need are political-style arguments in defense of evolution." This book appears to me to be more of a polemic than an academic examination of Intelligent Design or evolution. It also doesn't seem, at least at this time, to be a particularly seminal entry into the debate. Instead, it appears to be yet another advocacy piece. Sure, some users of FaithLife's various software platforms might have an interest in studying anti-Christian advocacy or rhetoric, but you wouldn't generally expect to find the source material for that in a Christian bookstore. For a real survey of that literature - which seems to be the most likely reason most Christians would be interested in this book - you'd expect to have to go to a secular publisher.

Posts 28594
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 5:38 PM

John Brumett:

WIll someone answer this question. Why does the Title on their Website say Vyrso Christian Ebooks?  We can argue whether or not this book should be sold but when it is listed on a web sight that says Christian Ebooks when the book is anti Christian I think this is wrong.

Ive already answered your question. It  likely wasn't an intentional decision. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 28594
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 5:38 PM

John Brumett:

WIll someone answer this question. Why does the Title on their Website say Vyrso Christian Ebooks?  We can argue whether or not this book should be sold but when it is listed on a web sight that says Christian Ebooks when the book is anti Christian I think this is wrong.

Ive already answered your question. It  likely wasn't an intentional decision. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 11226
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 5:51 PM

It would have to be unintentional per Vyrso.com:

"Behind Vyrso
The new Christian reading experience
Now there's a way for Christian readers like you to enjoy your personal reading time anywhere! Vyrso brings you ebooks written by Christians for Christians. Your Vyrso experience is designed to bring you the best Christian titles on any mobile device, providing you with a virtual Christian bookshelf that goes wherever you go."

Each Vyrso book is by a Christian.  Plus each title is Christian too. And the readers too.

I say, the book gets the Vyrso boot (for everyone else but me).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 29753
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:00 PM

SineNomine:
Dr. Abby Hafer is apparently not a Christian, so its author does not justify the book's presence on Vyrso.

I have always assumed based upon classifications in Christian bookstores and Christian sections of bookstores aimed at a broader market, that one did not have to be Christian to write material of interest to/about/or directly related to Christian topics. I almost did not link my source for fear someone would jump to unfounded conclusions as to her personal faith or lack there of.

SineNomine:
Is the book's subject matter such that it can be called Christian? It would seem not.

It would seem that it would not be had the intelligent design/young earth/denialism et. al. groups not confused/combined science with religion.

SineNomine:
Should Vyrso.com, with its present "Christian Ebooks" slogan, sell non-Christian ebooks?

Depends on what you mean ... should it sell Plato so we can understand the influence of neo-Platoism on Christian thought?

===============

from the preface:

Creating this book has been a long and sometimes meandering process. I had to study the politics and history of the creationism/intelligent design movement as well as the history of denialism in general, learn a whole lot of theology, learn zoology, anatomy, physiology and evolution, do a lot of public speaking, and learn more than I ever knew existed about writing, publishing, photograph hunting and vetting, and biological illustration. Some of these things I started learning long ago, and others have been learned on the fly as I worked on this book. I have been helped in wonderful ways both by friends and by people bestowing kindness upon a stranger. Here is a partial list of those who have helped this book come to fruition. I thank them all for their talent, generosity, and kindness.
THE ENLIGHTENERS: The Reverend Dr. Leslie Muray—who knows nearly everything—helped with theology and also with his enthusiasm for this project. If Les liked the project, it had to count for something. Dr. Ward Holder improved my understanding of Calvinism. Dr. Allan Hunter gave me good advice about writing and publishing. Dr. Keith Wright helped with information theory. Dr. Doug Muder and my sweet husband Alan MacRobert have helped with endless discussions about lots of things. Dr. Roger Hanlon at the Marine Biological Laboratory at Woods Hole helped me understand cuttlefish eyes.
THE HELPERS: Nancy Daugherty bravely did the formatting for this book. Curry College gave me some reduced teaching time so I could work on this book. First Parish in Bedford gave me encouragement, and took an interest in my public speaking. The Secular Students’ Alliance enabled me to speak to lots and lots of terrific students all over the country.


Abby Hafer, The Not-so-Intelligent Designer: Why Evolution Explains the Human Body and Intelligent Design Does Not (Eugene, Oregon: Wipf&Stock, 2015).

Obviously, it is not difficult to find her denominational  preference. It is not difficult to discover that her presuppositions, goals, theological stance etc. bare little relationship to the New Atheism. Nor is it difficult to discover that Faithlife has a strong relationship with the publisher (23 pages of results when I search on publisher). [self-censored before writing]

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1083
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:19 PM

MJ. Smith:

SineNomine:
Should Vyrso.com, with its present "Christian Ebooks" slogan, sell non-Christian ebooks?

Depends on what you mean ... should it sell Plato so we can understand the influence of neo-Platoism on Christian thought?

Yes, of course. But it seems fair to suggest that Dr. Hafer has not - at least at this point in her career - had a comparable impact on either Christian thought or secular philosophy. If this proves to be a truly seminal book that Christian thinkers have to actively engage with, and that is necessary to understand the issues involved in the current debate, then it would seem appropriate for FaithLife to publish it.

MJ. Smith:

...Nor is it difficult to discover that Faithlife has a strong relationship with the publisher (23 pages of results when I search on publisher).

That may be the answer - FaithLife may be obligated to offer the book based on their contracts with the publisher. It seems to me unfortunate if they are entering into agreements that force them to offer everything brought to them by a particular publisher. That reduces their control over their own catalog and thus, to some extent, over the "personalty" that they present to their users.

Posts 458
Jonathan Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:30 PM

This thread got me to buy the book. 

Posts 29753
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:33 PM

EastTN:
That may be the answer - FaithLife may be obligated to offer the book based on their contracts with the publisher.

Let's apply Occam's razor ... Faithlife offers the book because it represents the antidenialism position of American Christianity-informed religious thought.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:41 PM

I will give thanks to you,
because I was marvelously, awesomely made.
Wondrous things are your works,
and my soul knows it exceedingly.


Rick Brannan et al., eds., The Lexham English Septuagint (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Ps 138:14.

Posts 2953
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 7:34 PM

John Brumett:
I needed to point out this book.  

Thanks for the heads-up, John. You'll get no love from the forums, but you possibly saved some of us from buying something we don't want in our library.

'Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.' - Chesterton

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 29753
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 8:00 PM

John Brumett:
This book has come in with the recent flood of Wipf and Stock materials which are very liberal in their theology but I needed to point out this book.  

Okay, the book turns out to be a quick read ... no I've not completed it but have read more that half. I am ready to respond directly to your post.

  • The title of this thread is out and out slander - the author neither mocks God nor promotes atheism ... nor are either even her topic. I don't care for slander.
  • Yes, I can see why the blurb made you jump to your erroneous conclusions which is why it is better to ask for more information or do some basic research before commenting.
  • Looking at http://wipfandstock.com/our-publishing-partners/ I fail to find justification for your characterization of WIPF and Stock as "very liberal in their theology" ... I would appreciate your defining what you mean

But thanks to your posting in a manner that required me to engage in some fact checking, I've had an enjoyable afternoon of light reading on a topic I rarely read.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 10:33 PM

MJ. Smith:
The title of this thread is out and out slander - the author neither mocks God nor promotes atheism ... nor are either even her topic. I don't care for slander.

To say that an omniscient, omnipotent, all wise God who makes man in his image could not know enough to put men testicles inside his body instead of outside his body is not mockery you then don't know what mockery is!  I don't care for slandering my God. 

MJ. Smith:
Yes, I can see why the blurb made you job to your erroneous conclusions which is why it is better to ask for more information or do some basic research before commenting.

Abby Hafer is listed on the American Humanist Speakers Bureau http://americanhumanist.org/What_We_Do/Media_Outreach/Speakers_Bureau/Hafer 

Notice this American Humanist foundation slogan  "Good without a God"

Notice the praise for her book on the web sight Debunking Christianity http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2015/11/dr-abby-hafers-new-book-is-almost-out.html

http://www.meetup.com/bostonatheists/events/229718835/ The Boston Atheist praise her book

Boston Atheist slogan were good without God

If you YouTube her lectures you will see she rejects creationism and holds completely to evolution.  No theistic evolution either.   

MJ. Smith:
Looking at http://wipfandstock.com/our-publishing-partners/ I fail to find justification for your characterization of WIPF and Stock as "very liberal in their theology" ... I would appreciate your defining what you mean

Pro Gay Marriage- Confronting Religious Denial of Gay Marriage: Christian Humanism and the Moral Imagination  Writing in part for secular humanists, non-Christians, and ex-Christians, Wallace locates the beginning of religious vilification of LBGTQ Americans: 

Pro Feminist- God Is Not a Boy's Name: Becoming Woman, Becoming Priest

I Found God in Me: A Womanist Biblical Hermeneutics Reader- teachers teaching courses in womanist biblical hermeneutics, feminist interpretation

Pro evolutionary- The End of Captivity? A Primate's Reflections on Zoos, Conservation, and Christian Ethics   humans are unique in that we are the only animals who keep other animals captive.

Denial of Inerrancy of Scripture and Supernatural Prophecy-Helping Jesus Fulfill Prophecy

 In hindsight we can see that Jesus had help fulfilling prophecy. The gospel writers skillfully manipulated prophecies--carefully lifting them out of context, creatively reinterpreting them, even rewriting them--to match what Jesus would do in fulfilling them. 

Clearly many of Wipf and Stock books are left leaning.  But I did not originally post complaining about these books although I would not buy any of them.     

Posts 29753
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 11:19 PM

John Brumett:
Abby Hafer is listed on the American Humanist Speakers Bureau

Okay, I am officially angry. I was the one who provided that reference knowing that it was a logical fallacy to jump from that to assuming she shared their beliefs. I also provided the information that would allow you to discover what church she belongs to. If you pay any attention to her line of argument, her issue has nothing to do with theism or religion per se ... it has to do with denialism promoted needlessly by religion. Put another way, she wants to keep Christians from making themselves look like idiots by getting a common understanding of what science claims and does.

As I define liberal/conservative ... liberal is looking to solve political, social and economic problems through new solutions/values/world-view; conservative in looking to solve political, social and economic issues by a better implementation of traditional solutions/values/world-view. Pastor tend to label me very conservative - positively medieval - which is often mistaken as liberal.

I am not wasting more time on this topic. But I am glad you brought the book to my attention.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2016 1:24 AM

Thanks MJ and Denise, you have both saved me from despair again.

Kudos too, all who did not condemn the author and/or pre-judge the content of the book.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Page 2 of 4 (73 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS