Anybody have an update on when this feature will be part of the non-Beta version of LOGOS 4? I understand the number of people and hours that have gone into making L4 a great product, but still think it was released way too early. I had to buy a new laptop to handle L4. I certainly wouldn't have upgraded had I known how much it would slow down my computer, and L3 worked great. I see questions on this forum dating back four months about the same issue. It saddens me that a company I was ecstatic with when using L3 seems to have adopted the strategies of the companies of the world (Microsoft). L4 is like Vista, in my opinion, maybe more powerful than L3, but not until all the bugs have been worked out. Too many bugs and the biggest one is notes. And when someone complains on this board, I have seen too many LOGOS employees responding in anger. Yes, you are working hard, but don't forget, we all paid a lot of money for a product that was not what the last one was. I have seen lots of nebulous promises about first quater 2010 to when Notes would be ready. How about an update for those of us who are really struggling with L4? Blessings and may the Lord help me with my patience in this.
Hmmm. It seems that no one is quick to jump on this post. I agree with you Garry. I had to buy a new computer as well and I paid a lot of money to upgrade during the "discount" time. I've waited so long for the note features that I finally, a couple of days ago, downloaded the Beta version just so I could get my L3 notes and what do you know? I can't even get them imported into the Beta version. I've been a loyal Logos customer since the days of their first version. Now I find myself using my Bible Explorer 4, just for the note taking availability. I think they've made a big mistake. They may actually take a nose dive in the Bible software market. I know this much; I would never buy another title from them and if I could get my money back, I surely would.
Now with that said, I'll await the bashing you and I are sure to get because of this post. Frustration with Logos is not tolerated well on this board. But, you know, I don't really care any longer. Take your best shot.
Jim R. Keener
Jim and Garry,
I see nothing wrong with you expressing your opinions about notes; I've made several posts using different words than you all over the course of several months. Others may, as you have said, see differently. Grace.
I respect your frustration. Personally, the "early" release of Logos has not negatively affected me. But that's not why I'm replying to your posts. It's this statement that I'm having trouble with:
Garry Glaub:And when someone complains on this board, I have seen too many LOGOS employees responding in anger.
I have read a big percentage of the posts since the launch of Logos 4, I do not believe this statement to be true. Can you please give me examples (and links) of an angry posts from multiple Logos employees? Some users have certainly been overzealous in their defense of Logos, but I can think of only one example of a Logos employee acting in a a frustrated (and perhaps angry) manner and that post was taken down.
Prov. 15:23
How to ask for Help
Jim,
I am thankful for your response, as it reminds me that I am not the only one dealing with the same issues. I think part of the problem for me was attending a Morris Proctor seminar on L3, for it helped me unleash the power of L3. Mr. Proctor's biggest point was to encourage us all to use the Notes feature, making it much easier to not have to do the same research over and over again. As I have stated in other threads, I have upwards of 6,000 notes on L3. So now after spending $1,350 on a new laptop to get a faster processor, and spending more money on the L4 upgrade with a discount, mind you, I have a product that is far less usable than something I already owned. I guess I would call that a net loss. Obviously, L3 is weaker in functionality and use than L4 in regards to Notes. Why? From reading your earlier posts and their corresponding threads, it seems to be based on the owner (Bob) and his idea. Wish that part of the upgrade would have been stated before all these purchases! Bob might want to contact Morris and tell him all the people he inspired in seminars might be a little disappointed. But as long as the mamman keeps rolling in, I doubt anything we say will be heard. I have a $10 version of Bible Explorer that I use, as well. How could a $10 program possibly rival one at more than a 100 times the cost? Looking at the forums, it appears that many are struggling with the Notes capability. Anyone paying attention?
Garry Glaub:And when someone complains on this board, have seen too many LOGOS employees responding in anger.
You might want to check your facts on this one. I have never seen any Logos Employee respond this way, nor do I believe that Bob or Dan would put up with it if they did.
Kevin,
Maybe it's a matter of perception. What I perceive as anger could easily be frustration, as not being able to look in someone's eyes when they type an email, I don't know their emotions going into that email. I realize that it is hard when you try to do your best and people question the results. It's pretty standard in life and occupations. But I do feel like I have to choose my words very cautiously to get a non-accusatory response. It is not intended to be a shoving match. I am frustrated, disappointed and feel a little misled. "Bible study has never been easier!" Well, actually, it was easier with L3!
Regardless, thanks for your perceptions, and at the least, taking the time to read this post and respond.
In Christ, who is still in charge!
Garry
Looks like the only response on this thread is to question my veracity on whether LOGOS employees have responded in anger. Enough! I'll give you that it might be frustration, rather than anger. My misperception. Now, how about answering the question of the thread, rather than finding disagreement with my frustration. When is an import NOTES feature going to be released in a non-Beta version of L4, please?
Garry Glaub: When is an import NOTES feature going to be released in a non-Beta version of L4, please?
The answer is whenever they release 4.0b. Logos has not given us a date. The general perception of those of us beta-testing it is that it is almost done and will soon be released. Bradley (a developer) has told that a good portion of the developers have moved on to working on new features for 4.0c. The developers that are still on 4.0b are working on fixing bugs. The hold-up on 4.0b is probably a short list of bugs that are not tenable in a release version.
I know this is not the level of detail you want, but it is the only answer I can give w/o first hand knowledge of the developers.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. When you imported your notes into the Beta, were you satisfied with the results? Did you have a lot of notes, or was that important to you?
Garry,
I agree that 4.0b will be out soon, and it's down to a small number of bug fixes. 4.0b is really good, I have been using it for about a month, or since beta 4 (it's beta 12 now). I imported all my notes in, I only had about 20, not sophisticated formatting, but they imported perfectly.
I think 4.0b is a very nice release and there is lots in it. You can check it out in the wiki, but besides the bug fixes here are the new features:
* Import notes, highlighting and favorites from LDLS3. To start the import, enter one of the following commands in the command box import notes import highlighting import favorites import all (imports all three types listed above) * Added Parallel Resource drop-down menu in resource toolbar * Resources support navigating by data type levels, highlighting, and search results. There's a new menu on the Locator toolbar where you can select data type, and then the new Up/Down arrows next to it will navigate through your resource by that unit. Also if you do a Find within a resource, you can click the up/down carets (shouldn't they be arrows too, for consistency?) to get to the next/prev search result. People have been asking for these enhancements. * Added Graph Search Results to Morph Search when all searched resources are Bibles * Added "Speed search" to Bible search, which is now the default * Added an "Update to current snapshot" context menu option to saved layouts, which replaces the saved layout with the current layout. * Added a button to the Search Panel toolbar to create a new Visual Filter document from the search * Added "Adjust plan" feature to reading plans. If you are behind, you can right-click on a day and select "Adjust plan from here", which pushes everything back so that you start reading on that day. * Added domain and subdomain to the Louw-Nida search analyis group header * Added an access key for opening the customize menu on the home page (Alt+C) * Added Bibles-only search index * There are now different settings for auto bookmarks, user defined favorite bookmarks, and search bookmarks for more control over visual bookmark settings * Adding "Default Sans Serif" font option to the Settings panel * External links can be dragged to the Favorites panel * Copy Bible Verses Global Shortcut is now shown in Program Settings * Changed layout of reference range picker in Bible Search, Morph Search, and Reading Plan * Each unique term in a search query is now highlighted with a different color * Input boxes will try to provide valid Bible reference ranges instead of doing nothing (e.g. "mt 28:18-22" will parse to Mt 28:18-20) * User-defined collections now have their own section (separate from Series) in Search range picker * Implicit Series are now included as options in the Cited By panel menu (disabled by default) * Ctrl+Shift+W closes all panels * Bible reference input boxes support the specification of a versemap to use when parsing * Right-click a collection title in the Parallel Resources drop-down to edit it * Delete icon changed to red ‘x’ (to distinguish it from the Close icon) * Significant improvements to formatting preservation when importing notes. We recommend running the import delete notes command, followed by import notes to re-import the notes. If you have a lot of notes, synchronization may take a long time to catch up with all the changes after running these commands. * Use command uilang en or uilang es to switch to English or Spanish UI. (Restart required.) (Spanish UI is not yet finished.) * Right-click a collection title in Parallel Resources drop-down to edit it. * Accessibility is now disabled to avoid performance problems on tablet PCs due to WPF. "set accessibility to on" and restart to enable accessibility. The Tablet PC Input Service hack at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly should no longer be necessary. * Bible Speed Search doesn’t ignore incomplete phrases. * Added a command bar setting to disable the home page ("Set show home page at startup to false") * Added "Filter Highlight" resource navigation option to navigate to the next/previous visual filter highlight * Added M’Cheyne Reading Plan option in the reference range selector; it makes the plan for the year of the starting date, and overrides all other time options * Added Reverse Interlinear section to Resource Info page * Additional commands are now supported: Rebuild Bible index, Rebuild library index, Merge library index * "All parallel resources" set shows the built-in parallel resources * Allow duplicate verses in bible reading plans, so reading Psalms,Psalms will read through Psalms twice * Collections can now be excluded from Parallel Resource Sets * The current parallel resource set can now be chosen by clicking the column header * New icons for ‘Update Now’, ‘Update Resources’, ‘Start Reading Aloud’, and ‘FSD’ commands * LEFT and RIGHT arrow keys now flip through the resources in the current Parallel Resource set * "Speed search" renamed to "Search (while typing)" to better convey its functionality; it is no longer the default * Use command "uilang en" or "uilang es" to switch to English or Spanish UI. (Restart required) * Prayer Lists (in File menu) * import prayer lists command imports prayer lists from LDLS3 * Added Information Panel settings * Added Language program setting * Resource Information shows reverse interlinear information (when available and applicable) * Added a resource description pop-up to resource hyperlinks in the Commentaries and Cross References sections * Parallel Resource Sets remembers the last set chosen * Collections are not shown in Parallel Resources by default (existing collections won’t be changed) * The first Parallel Resource set is now the default set * Copy Bible Verses supports <tab> to insert a tab * Added "Proxy settings" to Sign in dialog for custom/authenticated proxy servers * Highlighting Palettes and Styles can be created and edited * If sync fails, the sync icon (in the top right) will change to an "error" icon * "Export" changed to "Export to Bibliography." * New Copy Bible Verses syntax that use Microsoft Word custom Styles: %HeaderStyle = My Style Name %ForEachVerseStyle = My Style Name %FooterStyle = My Style Name %FootnoteStyle = My Style Name (applies to all footnotes, including citations) %CitationStyle = My Style Name (only applies to citation footnotes) * On a new installation, automatic downloading of updates can be disabled when selecting a "Custom" install. * Resource visual filters are grouped by type. * When the application crashes, it will write a short crash report to My Documents\Logos Log Files\*Crash.txt; this will occur whether or not logging is enabled. * Every note type now supports user-editable titles. * Note import now preserves the original note’s title, rather than combining it with the note text. * Context menu Add note now respects the selected tab to influence note attachment. * Added ability to add a note to a reference range.
* Import notes, highlighting and favorites from LDLS3. To start the import, enter one of the following commands in the command box
import notes
import highlighting
import favorites
import all (imports all three types listed above)
* Added Parallel Resource drop-down menu in resource toolbar
* Resources support navigating by data type levels, highlighting, and search results. There's a new menu on the Locator toolbar where you can select data type, and then the new Up/Down arrows next to it will navigate through your resource by that unit. Also if you do a Find within a resource, you can click the up/down carets (shouldn't they be arrows too, for consistency?) to get to the next/prev search result. People have been asking for these enhancements.
* Added Graph Search Results to Morph Search when all searched resources are Bibles
* Added "Speed search" to Bible search, which is now the default
* Added an "Update to current snapshot" context menu option to saved layouts, which replaces the saved layout with the current layout.
* Added a button to the Search Panel toolbar to create a new Visual Filter document from the search
* Added "Adjust plan" feature to reading plans. If you are behind, you can right-click on a day and select "Adjust plan from here", which pushes everything back so that you start reading on that day.
* Added domain and subdomain to the Louw-Nida search analyis group header
* Added an access key for opening the customize menu on the home page (Alt+C)
* Added Bibles-only search index
* There are now different settings for auto bookmarks, user defined favorite bookmarks, and search bookmarks for more control over visual bookmark settings
* Adding "Default Sans Serif" font option to the Settings panel
* External links can be dragged to the Favorites panel
* Copy Bible Verses Global Shortcut is now shown in Program Settings
* Changed layout of reference range picker in Bible Search, Morph Search, and Reading Plan
* Each unique term in a search query is now highlighted with a different color
* Input boxes will try to provide valid Bible reference ranges instead of doing nothing (e.g. "mt 28:18-22" will parse to Mt 28:18-20)
* User-defined collections now have their own section (separate from Series) in Search range picker
* Implicit Series are now included as options in the Cited By panel menu (disabled by default)
* Ctrl+Shift+W closes all panels
* Bible reference input boxes support the specification of a versemap to use when parsing
* Right-click a collection title in the Parallel Resources drop-down to edit it
* Delete icon changed to red ‘x’ (to distinguish it from the Close icon)
* Significant improvements to formatting preservation when importing notes. We recommend running the import delete notes command, followed by import notes to re-import the notes. If you have a lot of notes, synchronization may take a long time to catch up with all the changes after running these commands.
* Use command uilang en or uilang es to switch to English or Spanish UI. (Restart required.) (Spanish UI is not yet finished.)
* Right-click a collection title in Parallel Resources drop-down to edit it.
* Accessibility is now disabled to avoid performance problems on tablet PCs due to WPF. "set accessibility to on" and restart to enable accessibility. The Tablet PC Input Service hack at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly should no longer be necessary.
* Bible Speed Search doesn’t ignore incomplete phrases.
* Added a command bar setting to disable the home page ("Set show home page at startup to false")
* Added "Filter Highlight" resource navigation option to navigate to the next/previous visual filter highlight
* Added M’Cheyne Reading Plan option in the reference range selector; it makes the plan for the year of the starting date, and overrides all other time options
* Added Reverse Interlinear section to Resource Info page
* Additional commands are now supported: Rebuild Bible index, Rebuild library index, Merge library index
* "All parallel resources" set shows the built-in parallel resources
* Allow duplicate verses in bible reading plans, so reading Psalms,Psalms will read through Psalms twice
* Collections can now be excluded from Parallel Resource Sets
* The current parallel resource set can now be chosen by clicking the column header
* New icons for ‘Update Now’, ‘Update Resources’, ‘Start Reading Aloud’, and ‘FSD’ commands
* LEFT and RIGHT arrow keys now flip through the resources in the current Parallel Resource set
* "Speed search" renamed to "Search (while typing)" to better convey its functionality; it is no longer the default
* Use command "uilang en" or "uilang es" to switch to English or Spanish UI. (Restart required)
* Prayer Lists (in File menu)
* import prayer lists command imports prayer lists from LDLS3
* Added Information Panel settings
* Added Language program setting
* Resource Information shows reverse interlinear information (when available and applicable)
* Added a resource description pop-up to resource hyperlinks in the Commentaries and Cross References sections
* Parallel Resource Sets remembers the last set chosen
* Collections are not shown in Parallel Resources by default (existing collections won’t be changed)
* The first Parallel Resource set is now the default set
* Copy Bible Verses supports <tab> to insert a tab
* Added "Proxy settings" to Sign in dialog for custom/authenticated proxy servers
* Highlighting Palettes and Styles can be created and edited
* If sync fails, the sync icon (in the top right) will change to an "error" icon
* "Export" changed to "Export to Bibliography."
* New Copy Bible Verses syntax that use Microsoft Word custom Styles:
%HeaderStyle = My Style Name
%ForEachVerseStyle = My Style Name
%FooterStyle = My Style Name
%FootnoteStyle = My Style Name (applies to all footnotes, including citations)
%CitationStyle = My Style Name (only applies to citation footnotes)
* On a new installation, automatic downloading of updates can be disabled when selecting a "Custom" install.
* Resource visual filters are grouped by type.
* When the application crashes, it will write a short crash report to My Documents\Logos Log Files\*Crash.txt; this will occur whether or not logging is enabled.
* Every note type now supports user-editable titles.
* Note import now preserves the original note’s title, rather than combining it with the note text.
* Context menu Add note now respects the selected tab to influence note attachment.
* Added ability to add a note to a reference range.
Dominick,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Regardless of the lack of formatting, it will be nice to have my notes again. I'm glad that it will be released soon...only hoping that it will be "eutheos!"
Blessings,
Garry Glaub: Kevin, Thanks for taking the time to respond. When you imported your notes into the Beta, were you satisfied with the results? Did you have a lot of notes, or was that important to you?
I got burned so many times by LDLS notes I stopped using them. I always forgot to back them up during my yearly reloading of XP conditioned me to stop using notes for anything other than a place to type stuff out before I pasted it into Word or some other program.
This is one of the reasons why the note function of Logos 4 hasn't inconvenienced me as much as others, I bypass it for the greater power and flexibility of Word/OneNote.
Logos 4 is easier for me to use and I may start using note more but only analogous to writing in the margins of a book. It would be nice if Logos had more notes power, richer editing options but I would prefer to see other features developed.
Garry Glaub:I'll give you that it might be frustration, rather than anger. My misperception. Now, how about answering the question of the thread, rather than finding disagreement with my frustration. When is an import NOTES feature going to be released in a non-Beta version of L4, please?
And here I thought I was dealing with your anger. (Humor) Sorry for increasing you frustration Garry, I didn't answer because I didn't know, nor are notes as important to me as they are to many on this forum (they must be important since enhancements to the notes are currently the #2 ranked request on logos.yourvoice.com.
I did say something about the Logos employees, because I felt that the comment was unfair and unkind. They won't stick up for themselves, so I felt an obligation to say something.
I'm sure your frustration is justified, given how you use the program, but please understand that not all of us feel that way. I agree with Kevin, 4.0b release is "soon" given a couple of comments on the board, I would expect to see it before the middle of March. But that is just a guess.
Kevin Becker:Logos 4 is easier for me to use and I may start using note more but only analogous to writing in the margins of a book. It would be nice if Logos had more notes power, richer editing options but I would prefer to see other features develope
Well unless the other features are printing, you had better get used to enhanced note functions, given those are the top 2 requests on logos.yourvoice.com. I'm with you though Kevin, I lost all of my notes in a Logos upgrades many moons ago (I think it was the L2 upgrade) and haven't wanted to trust them ever since.
Kevin Becker: This is one of the reasons why the note function of Logos 4 hasn't inconvenienced me as much as others, I bypass it for the greater power and flexibility of Word/OneNote. Logos 4 is easier for me to use and I may start using note more but only analogous to writing in the margins of a book.
Logos 4 is easier for me to use and I may start using note more but only analogous to writing in the margins of a book.
The L4 notes are designed to work in that mode. I find that the searching and indexing capabilities of notes in L4 are very enticing and I believe they are less vulnerable to loss than in L3.
Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."
In L3, I worked on a laptop and desktop and used a flash drive to copy the Notes folder, and import it into the other computer so that both remained updated. I did this bi-weekly, so if I ever lost notes, I would only lose two weeks worth. But I never lost notes! Sounds like Notes was a frustration for many before L4, and if a part of a program is not functional, it should not be there at all. Better to not have it than to cause headaches with its constant failure.
Garry Glaub:But I never lost notes!
I use notes in L3 frequently and never "lost" any either. Never heard of them vanishing before.
Garry Glaub:Sounds like Notes was a frustration for many before L4, and if a part of a program is not functional, it should not be there at all.
I don't quite agree with that, I think if part of a program is not functional its a reason to fix it, preferably before releasing it.
Still, in my experience L3 notes are very functional.
Edward,
I completely agree with you...I wasn't expressing my point very well. In L3, the notes were extremely functional for me. So, the purchasers of L4 logically deduced that since L4 is an "improvement" on L3, and an additional expense, that at the very least, it would have the functioning parts from the previous version continuing to function. But in L4, Notes is a joke in comparison to L3. If Notes had been taken out entirely, I would have been extremely disappointed, but it's even more frustrating trying to get something to work that won't work. My point at the onset of this thread was that LOGOS released this program way too early! It had too many pieces of the puzzle not working, and unfortunately, that doesn't reflect well on this product. Many have been with LOGOS for lengthy periods and are very disappointed. Microsoft has done some similar things, releasing the product too early, but letting feedback from users tell them what needs improving, rather than putting the time in before releasing it. That is putting the current profit margin above the long-term plan of a reputable product.
I am sure that LOGOS will remedy all the bugs in L4, and having already invested a lot of money, I will hang in there. But if I was a new customer, I would be asking for a refund and looking for a different program by now. I hope there have been some major lessons learned. I know that I am learning patience!
ahh, ok. I agree.