ESV Permanent Text Edition 2016

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This post has 112 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 1749
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 7:00 PM

James McAdams:

From @KateShellnut: The popular ESV Bible text will be updated and changing after all:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/september/crossway-reverses-decision-esv-bible-text-permanent-mistake.html

Good to see.

Posts 3307
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 5:16 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:
It will replace the current ESV resource.

I hope this is not a final decision. Changes to a bible should not be viewed as an "update." Textual variation can and in many instances does effect interpretation. I bought this present translation of the original languages and I have it prioritized over all my other translations. I for one do not want these "updates," and should not be forced to except these variations in the text.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 11:58 PM

Beloved:
I hope this is not a final decision. Changes to a bible should not be viewed as an "update." Textual variation can and in many instances does effect interpretation. I bought this present translation of the original languages and I have it prioritized over all my other translations. I for one do not want these "updates," and should not be forced to except these variations in the text.

This is usually a matter of contract with the copyright owner not a choice Faithlife can make.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 12:38 AM

MJ. Smith:
This is usually a matter of contract with the copyright owner not a choice Faithlife can make.

Kyle indicates that this is the case here at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/128654/850885.aspx#850885 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 6:21 AM

Let's keep the culprit clear ... it's the company that forces downloads. My other book companies don't.

What amazes me, is the religious ones used to view this sort of thing (rewordings) with a touch of 'I'll decide'. Even the DR had to tippy toe.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 595
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 6:53 AM

There are a lot of verses that I heard growing up (KJV) that I thought I understood. but in my early 30's I learned that because of language barriers, I had misunderstood. It really bothered me that someone "changed the meaning" of the text on me.

I read somewhere that it was a good idea to read the bible through in different translations. it would cause you to say "wait a minute" I don't remember reading that! A lot of passages that I had used for proof tests, I realized did not prove the point I thought they did.

The proposed change in the passage Gen 3:16 has now caused me to did deeper into the text and caused me to wonder if I had come to this text with preconceived ideas the text did not support. I haven't come to a final conclusion yet, but being challenged is a good thing I believe!

Posts 3307
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 12:20 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:

Donnie Hale:

Kyle G. Anderson:
It will replace the current ESV resource

Is that a requirement of the publisher? Or a FL decision? If the latter, can it be reconsidered? Obviously, I don't know all the implications.

Thanks for answering,

Donnie

I can't go into all the details but essentially its the former.

Donnie Hale:
If this has been answered before, my apologies. Will this version of ESV be a new resource, or will it completely replace the current ESV resource? I much prefer that it be a new resource. And, if it is, the text comparison tool will make the changes pretty apparent.

Donnie, 

I too prefer this option. I contacted Crossway Customer Service and they said the mechanics of the update lie with FL, I questioned that this is not my understanding and they encouraged me to contact Crossway through esvquestions@crossway.org. I crafted an email to give voice to my preference for them issuing a revised edition distinct from the present edition.

I encourage all who share our preference to write Crossway and urge them to provide this option if they are indeed responsible for this intended update path.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 3307
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2016 2:02 PM

I am now hopeful for a satisfactory resolution to this issue. I received the following response to my email from Crossway.

  Thank you for your email. I have forwarded it on to our Bible department and they are looking into the possibility of discussing this with Logos. It could be some time before a final decision is made but we will see if there is a way to work out the licensing so that multiple editions are possible.  Copyright and licensing questions do require that we contact a number of different people in most cases so we appreciate your patience as we work on this. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 176
Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 1:43 PM

The ESV® Permanent Text Edition® (2016) just downloaded for me as an update.

Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

Posts 746
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 5:35 PM

Rob:

The ESV® Permanent Text Edition® (2016) just downloaded for me as an update.

Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

My ESV updated as well (but it still says the text is the 2011 version on the information panel). The update also messed up the alignment of all the visual filters (Corresponding Words, Addressee labels, etc).

Posts 2591
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 6:03 PM

Sad

Posts 473
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 6:04 PM

I really feel for the people who have been disturbed by some of the changes in the ESV. I checked Gen 3:16 also and it has indeed been "updated". Such changes over the years to modern Bibles have left me with little or no faith in them or the scholars that advocate for them. For many years I looked down on the King James Bible for its anachronisms, but for all that, today I trust it more than the collection of other Bibles I have in my Logos library. People may disagree with me and I mean no disrespect to anyone.  

All this shows the importance of prioritizing our Bibles in our Logos 7 to accord with how we approach the authority of our preferred Bibles - as all Bibles are not equal nor will they ever be.  Keep well Paul        

Posts 2591
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 8:00 PM

I haven't connected my laptop to the internet yet, so I still have the old readings.  What I may do is copy the verses that are going to change and make them into a note so I can see them when reading down the road.

Posts 25

TY For Noticing the visual filters problem.. I rarely feel the need to use them and would not have noticed for months...  Let us hope that LOGOS will send an update for this also..  I have 4 ESV's including one audio version.. only one was updated.. the ESV audio Bible, the ESV Study Bible and the high definition ESV N.T. remained the same..

Posts 542
Leo Wee Fah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:12 PM

In the text itself:

The Classic Reference Edition, English Standard Version® (ESV®)
Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles,
a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers
All rights reserved.

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version
Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles,
a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers
All rights reserved.

ESV® Permanent Text Edition® (2016)

Posts 25

The old tried and true KJV is still the King. Pardon the pun.. corrections made to it (IMO) are badly misguided .. these so called updates have added nothing ever to the message which  my soul received by and through the 'OL KJV..  I do read others but always find them inferior in quality of content and style..  I reiterate: I do read other versions but not with the view in mind of correcting the KJV.. No argument has ever proven to me the necessity to have to correct the King's Bible... They all seem to me to be arguments of emotion rather than substance.. Usually the complaint is that it is too hard to understand or read because the language is so archaic.. rarely is it ever pointed out to anyone that a beginning Bible reader needs to study any version anyway, so why not the king's English also..  The KJV says so many things soo much more accurately..  The modern English language simply lacks the verbal tools to equal the accuracy inherent in the King's English.. Why is it that new Christians are discouraged from learning the beauty and accuracy of a language which has never been equaled nor surpassed in the worlds of literature anywhere in the world or in any other language.. Though I am not KJV Only, I am most definitely KJV First.. it has never let me down.. yet the so called scholars of other versions have always done so inevitably..

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:26 PM

REV. DR. JAIME LOPEZ ORTEGA:
The modern English language simply lacks the verbal tools to equal the accuracy inherent in the King's English..

????

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 473
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 12:32 AM

REV. DR. JAIME LOPEZ ORTEGA:

The old tried and true KJV is still the King. Pardon the pun.. corrections made to it (IMO) are badly misguided .. these so called updates have added nothing ever to the message which  my soul received by and through the 'OL KJV..  I do read others but always find them inferior in quality of content and style..  I reiterate: I do read other versions but not with the view in mind of correcting the KJV.. No argument has ever proven to me the necessity to have to correct the King's Bible... They all seem to me to be arguments of emotion rather than substance.. Usually the complaint is that it is too hard to understand or read because the language is so archaic.. rarely is it ever pointed out to anyone that a beginning Bible reader needs to study any version anyway, so why not the king's English also..  The KJV says so many things soo much more accurately..  The modern English language simply lacks the verbal tools to equal the accuracy inherent in the King's English.. Why is it that new Christians are discouraged from learning the beauty and accuracy of a language which has never been equaled nor surpassed in the worlds of literature anywhere in the world or in any other language.. Though I am not KJV Only, I am most definitely KJV First.. it has never let me down.. yet the so called scholars of other versions have always done so inevitably..

There is much wisdom in what you have said Rev Dr Ortega.

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 1:53 AM

I don't want to be a party-pooper, but this thread is heading towards violating the Forum Guidelines (see points 1 & 2 here). Once we start debating the rights and wrongs of the KJV we get onto very emotive territory, and will be generating a lot more heat than light. I have some very strong views on both the KJV and the latest ESV changes , but they should be aired on christiandiscourse.com or in Faithlife groups, not here (and I don't get into online debates anyway - I prefer the face-to-face sort). 

I'd respectfully ask those who want to debate these issues or air their views on what they perceive as the "real" Bible to do so in the appropriate place, and leave this thread so that we can find out what Faithlife is actually doing about the current ESV débâcle. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 635
Randall Cue | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 5:53 AM

Paul:

I really feel for the people who have been disturbed by some of the changes in the ESV. I checked Gen 3:16 also and it has indeed been "updated". Such changes over the years to modern Bibles have left me with little or no faith in them or the scholars that advocate for them. For many years I looked down on the King James Bible for its anachronisms, but for all that, today I trust it more than the collection of other Bibles I have in my Logos library. People may disagree with me and I mean no disrespect to anyone.  

All this shows the importance of prioritizing our Bibles in our Logos 7 to accord with how we approach the authority of our preferred Bibles - as all Bibles are not equal nor will they ever be.  Keep well Paul        

The KJV was "updated" and revised a number of times. The one most commonly used today dates from the 1790s.

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