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Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:41 PM

This is a great sale! I almost picked up the new NIDNTTE last week at full price to go along with the old version. However, I am tired of paying full price for Zondervan resources and having them go on sale shortly thereafter. Glad I waited!

I only wish FL still sold the NIDNTT Abridged version. I also wish Mounce's "Interlinear for the Rest of Us" was available.

Posts 501
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:45 PM

Are these resources included in any library packages or whatever? The seem like great prices but sometimes they still cheaper in libraries. I do not see any mentioned on the right side of the description.

Posts 3917
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:47 PM

Todd Phillips:

Friedrich:

Dang, Todd, go all out! Stick out tongue

I couldn't find much in the way of detailed online reviews for the ZEB, so I figured I'd write down my thoughts while I had it.

Thanks for filling the need!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3917
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:52 PM

Erik:

This is a great sale! I almost picked up the new NIDNTTE last week at full price to go along with the old version. However, I am tired of paying full price for Zondervan resources and having them go on sale shortly thereafter. Glad I waited!

I only wish FL still sold the NIDNTT Abridged version. I also wish Mounce's "Interlinear for the Rest of Us" was available.

Erik, if you have the NIDNTTE early version on Logos, would you mind picking a word/article to compare the two?  A few of us would be interested.  Thanks!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:55 PM

SHotchkiss:

Are these resources included in any library packages or whatever? The seem like great prices but sometimes they still cheaper in libraries. I do not see any mentioned on the right side of the description.

If there's no mention of libraries on the right side, then the items wouldn't be in an L7 library. Plus, it's Zondervan, so doubly unlikely.

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 5:35 PM

Friedrich:

Erik:

This is a great sale! I almost picked up the new NIDNTTE last week at full price to go along with the old version. However, I am tired of paying full price for Zondervan resources and having them go on sale shortly thereafter. Glad I waited!

I only wish FL still sold the NIDNTT Abridged version. I also wish Mounce's "Interlinear for the Rest of Us" was available.

Erik, if you have the NIDNTTE early version on Logos, would you mind picking a word/article to compare the two?  A few of us would be interested.  Thanks!

I would be happy to when I get home tonight; I'm heading out with the wife on a much needed date before our sixth child arrives sometime in the next few weeks. Big Smile  Any specific article you have in mind?

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 5:47 PM

Friedrich:
if you have the NIDNTTE early version on Logos, would you mind picking a word/article to compare the two?

Here's a comparison of πωλέω..

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 5:53 PM

Any idea when this ends?

Posts 508
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 5:59 PM

After the L7 roll out, i am having serious deflated wallet syndrome.

Posts 202
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 6:02 PM

Friedrich:

NB.Mick:
I'm still sitting on the fence for NIDNTTE and ZEB

I got ZEB, but found it not too hot, already having ISBE, AYBD etc.  Occasionally an article is good, or clearly written, but not really helpful if you have the other ones.  I think I got it more for the image files . . . that said, it is better than the old Zondervan Pictorial.

Hi all,

I have ISBE, AYBD and the IVP NT dictionaries as well as my Catholic Bible Encyclopedia. I am wondering if I will gain anything from the ZEB over what I already have. Would it be better to invest the $89 for two of the IVP OT dictionaries? I am planning to pickup up the Zondervan atlas, Mounce dictionary, and New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis.

Any advice?

Agape,

Steve

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 6:04 PM

Besides being curious as to when this ends... 

How did you find out about this?

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 6:11 PM

Mattillo:

Besides being curious as to when this ends... 

How did you find out about this?

Sale ends September 16th.

http://zondervanacademic.com/blog/software-super-sale-6-reference-works-are-60-off/

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 6:19 PM

Thanks! I normally get those emails. Must have missed it

Any idea how this compares against TDNT?

I have mounce and love it. I have the ZEB in print and I agree with the previous statements already said about them being shorter and less scholarly

Posts 8938
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 8:06 PM

Is NIVAC on Revelation amillennial or premillennial?

DAL

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 9:51 PM

DAL:

Is NIVAC on Revelation amillennial or premillennial?

DAL

Keener is premillennial.

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 9:57 PM

Friedrich:

Erik, if you have the NIDNTTE early version on Logos, would you mind picking a word/article to compare the two?  A few of us would be interested.  Thanks!

Here is a comparison of "Lamb" from both:

NIDNTT

Lamb, Sheep

"In the ancient world sheep together with other small livestock were kept in herds, and for that reason are usually referred to in the plural. The word probaton, which is relatively frequent in the NT, was originally a generic term for all four-legged animals, especially tame domestic animals, only later was it restricted to sheep. amnos denoted from the outset a young sheep, frequently a one-year-old lamb, especially as used for sacrifice on numerous cultic occasions. In non-sacrificial contexts, the lamb as an animal for slaughter was called arēn. The diminutive form arnion originally meant lambkin, but later simply a lamb. In a figurative theological context (especially in Matt. and Jn.) Israel and the Christian church are often referred to as sheep (probata), and occasionally (in Jn. and 1 Pet.) Jesus is likened to a lamb, amnos (in Jn.), arnion (in Rev.).

ἀμνός G303 (amnos), lamb; ἀρήν G748 (arēn), lamb; ἀρνίον G768 (arnion), lamb.

CL amnos, found infrequently from Sophocles and Aristophanes onwards, denotes a lamb as distinct from → πρόβατον, sheep. In the LXX both amnos and arēn are used, while arnion is no longer felt to be a diminutive, either in the LXX or in the NT.

OT In the OT amnos (Hebrew keḇeś) is used chiefly in passages classed among the Priestly writings and in Ezek., i.e. in writings of a cultic and sacrificial character. The lamb plays an important role as a sacrificial animal in Israel’s public worship. Lambs are presented as burnt offerings and sacrifices (Lev. 9:3, Num. 15:5) to atone for and to cleanse the people as a whole or individual persons (e.g. → lepers, Lev. 14:10) at the sanctuary. According to Exod. 12:5, at the yearly Passover → feast each family consumed a lamb that was without blemish, a male a year old, in memory of the exodus from Egypt. (At the exodus itself the blood of the lamb was smeared upon the door-posts and lintels of Jewish houses [Exod. 12:7, 13, 23].) In his prophecy of the new temple Ezek. mentions lambs as gifts for the → Sabbath-offering and the feast-offering (46:4, 11). Isa. 53:7 is particularly illuminating: the patiently suffering → Servant of the Lord is compared with a lamb being led to the slaughter and remaining dumb before its shearers. Here for the first time a person is spoken of as fulfilling the function of a sacrificial animal. Acts 8:32 cites Isa. 53:7, and sees in the passage a reference to the “good news of Jesus” (Acts 8:35).

NT 1. In the NT Jesus is described 4 times as amnos (Jn. 1:29, 36; Acts 8:32; 1 Pet. 1:19). In Jn. 1:29, 36 John the Baptist describes Jesus, whom he has baptized, as ho amnos tou theou, “the lamb of God”. This is not merely a comparison in which Jesus is said to be like a lamb; rather he is the lamb of God. Both Acts 8:32 and 1 Pet. 1:19 contain hōs (as), but this is not true of Jn. 1:29, 36. J. Jeremias (TDNT I 339) suggests that this phrase may have been borrowed from Isa. 53, and also from the Passover lamb idea. He points out that the Aramaic word ṭalyā’ means both lamb and boy, servant, and says that the meaning “servant” makes the genitive intelligible: Jesus, the servant of God. Then this led eventually to the possible (but most likely not the original) translation amnos tou theou.
Interesting and thought-provoking as this is, it is preferable to understand this unusual genitive construction in the light of the relative clause ho airōn tēn hamartian tou kosmou (“that takes away the sin of the world”) and to link this with Isa. 53: the lamb (of God) bears the sin of the world. (For interpretation of the Servant see H. H. Rowley, The Servant of the Lord and Other Essays, 19652.)
If “lamb” stands for “offering”, then the Baptist’s statement becomes clear. No offerings brought by men can take away the sin of the world. But God himself provides an offering, which does indeed take it away. He gave his only Son and did not spare him (cf. Rom. 8:31–32, probably an echo of Gen. 22). There is a considerable contrast between the Baptist’s words in Jn. 1:29 and those in the Synoptic Gospels, where messiah is said to be coming with his fan in his hand, sweeping his threshing floor (Matt. 3:12; Lk. 3:17). Jn. 1:29, however, is to be seen against the background of Jesus’ baptism (1:32–34), when he publicly identified himself with sinners and their lot. Once God has delivered up his Son to death the eschatological time of salvation can be said to have begun.
In the NT Jesus is described as a lamb in three different respects: (a) Acts 8:32 stresses his patient suffering; (b) 1 Pet. 1:19 emphasizes the sinlessness and perfection of his sacrifice by the phrase “without blemish and without spot”; (c) Jn. 1:29, 36 describe the atoning power of his death: he bears, i.e. wipes out, the sin of the world (cf. J. Jeremias, TDNT I 340).
2. arēn occurs once in the NT in Lk. 10:3, where it is said that the disciples will be as defenceless as sheep among wolves (→ Animal).
3. arnion. In Jn. 21:15 Christ exhorts Peter: “Feed my lambs [boske ta arnia mou]”. “The church belongs to Christ, and needs faithful pastoral oversight by his disciple (cf. Augustine: “Feed my sheep as mine and not as yours [oves meas pasce sicut meas, non sicut tuas]” (Tractatus in Ioannis Evangelium 123). Apart from Jn. 21:15, arnion is found exclusively in Rev. (27 times). It is important to note the observation by J. Jeremias (TDNT I 340) that by the NT period this word was no longer thought of as a diminutive. There is therefore no biblical basis for referring to Christ as a “lambkin”, however endearing the idea may be. The thought is rather that the judge of all the earth is he who died for us, and even as sovereign Lord he still bears the marks of his passion (Rev. 5:6).
arnion occurs 4 times in Rev. 5 (vv. 6, 8, 12f.), where Christ is seen in this two-fold aspect. On the one hand, he is the Lord, the one who opens the seals and who is to be worshipped. On the other hand, he is esphagmenon arnion (“a lamb that was slain”) having redeemed men of all races to God by his → blood, and made them → kings and → priests (Rev. 5:9, 10). He is both arnion and leōn, a lion (See → Animal). The eschatological wrath from which kings, rulers, freemen and slaves all wish to hide is orgē tou arniou, “the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16). In ch. 7 it is said that the blood of the Lamb has cleansing power. The robes of the martyrs were cleansed not by their martyrdom, severe as it was, but solely by the blood of the Lamb. The Lamb is worshipped at the same time as God (7:10). Rev. 19:7, 9 speaks of the marriage of the Lamb, the church being the bride. The 12 apostles are called apostles of the Lamb. God and the Lamb illumine the city of God (21:14, 23).
4. In summary it can be said that amnos tou theou denotes God’s offering, Christ, whom he destined to bear the sin of the world, while arnion emphasizes the fact that he who is eternal Lord is also Christ crucified for us."

J. Gess, “L,” ed. Lothar Coenen, Erich Beyreuther, and Hans Bietenhard, New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1986), 410–412.

NIDNTTE

"ἀμνός G303 (amnos), lamb; ἀρήν G748 (arēn), lamb; ἀρνίον G768 (arnion), lamb

Concept: Animal

GL The noun ἀμνός, referring to a young sheep usually less than one year old, is attested as early as the 5th cent. BC (e.g., once in a Soph. fragment and twice in Aristoph.), but it does not become common until the 3rd cent. BC. In the class. period, this term occurs almost exclusively in the nom. case; for the oblique cases, Gk. writers made use of ἀρήν (gen. ἀρνός, dat. ἀρνί, etc.), which is common already in Homer. The form ἀρνίον is a diminutive of ἀρήν, thus “little lamb,” but the context does not always make clear that such a distinction is intended.
JL In the LXX ἀμνός (incl. oblique-case forms such as ἀμνῶν and ἀμνούς, virtually unknown previously) occurs c. 100×, with more than half of these in Numbers; it almost always renders Heb. כֶּבֶשׂ H3897, used chiefly in passages of a cultic and sacrificial character. The fem. form ἀμνάς (gen. ἀμνάδος), which occurs 24×, renders both כֶּבֶשׂ (Num 7:17 et al.) and כִּבְשָׂה H3898 (“ewe lamb,” Gen 21:28–30 et al.). The term ἀρήν, though never in the nom. case, is found c. 35× (almost a third of these in Apoc.) as the transl. of various Heb. terms (כֶּבֶשׂ only in Exod 12:5; 1 Chr 29:21; Isa 11:6; v.l. in Job 31:20), suggesting that the LXX translators made some sort of distinction between ἀμνός and ἀρήν. Finally, the form ἀρνίον occurs 4×, all but one in combination with προβάτων, thus “the young of the sheep” (Ps 114:4, 6 [LXX 113:4, 6, rendering בְנֵי־צֹאן, lit., “sons of the flock”]; Jer 50:45 [27:45, rendering צְעִירֵי הַצֹּאן, “little ones of the flock”]), which perhaps indicates that the diminutive sense was still felt (the fourth instance is in Jer 11:19, rendering כֶּבֶשׂ).
The lamb played an important role as a sacrificial animal in Israel’s public worship. Lambs were presented as burnt offerings and sacrifices (Lev 9:3; Num 15:5) to atone for and to cleanse individual persons (e.g., lepers, Lev 14:10) or the people as a whole or at the sanctuary. According to Exod 12:5, at the yearly Passover feast each family consumed a lamb that was without blemish, a male a year old, in memory of the exodus from Egypt. (At the exodus itself the blood of the lamb was smeared on the doorposts and lintels of Jewish houses [Exod 12:7, 13, 23].) In his prophecy of the new temple Ezekiel mentions lambs as gifts for the Sabbath-offering and the feast-offering (46:4, 11). A well-known passage in Isaiah is partic. illuminating: the patiently suffering Servant of the Lord is compared with a lamb being led to the slaughter and remaining silent before its shearers (Isa 53:7). Here for the first time a person is spoken of as fulfilling the function of a sacrificial animal (cf. Acts 8:32, 35).
NT 1 The word ἀμνός occurs in only three NT contexts, and in each instance it is a designation given to Jesus: John 1:29 and 36; Acts 8:32 (citing Isa 53:7); 1 Pet 1:19. In the first of these, John the Baptist twice describes Jesus, whom he has baptized, as ὁ ἀμνὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, “the Lamb of God.” This is not merely a comparison in which Jesus is said to be like a lamb; rather he is the Lamb of God. Both Acts 8:32 and 1 Pet 1:19, however, incl. the particle ὡς G6055 (“as, like”). J. Jeremias (in TDNT 1:339) suggests that the phrase “the Lamb of God” may have been borrowed from Isa 53 and also from the Passover lamb sacrifice. He points out that the Aram. word טַלְיָא means both “lamb” and “boy, servant,” and says that the latter meaning makes the gen. case (του θεοῦ) intelligible: Jesus, the Servant of God (if so, the rendering ἀμνός is a mistranslation or “a creation of the [Christian] community”). Interesting and thought-provoking as this suggestion is, we should prob. understand the phrase in the light of the relative clause, ὁ αἴρων τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου (“who takes away the sin of the world”), and to link this concept with Isa 53: the Lamb (of God) bears the sin of the world. (See H. H. Rowley, The Servant of the Lord and Other Essays on the Old Testament, 2nd ed. [1965].)
If ἀμνός indicates an offering to God, then the Baptist’s statement becomes clear. No offerings brought by human beings can take away the sin of the world. But God himself provides an offering, which does indeed take it away. He gave his only Son and did not spare him (cf. Rom 8:31–32, probably an echo of Gen 22). There is a considerable contrast between the Baptist’s words in John 1:29 and those in the Synoptic Gospels, where the Messiah is said to be coming with a winnowing fork in his hand, sweeping his threshing floor (Matt 3:12; Luke 3:17). John 1:29, however, is to be seen against the background of Jesus’ baptism (1:32–34), when he publicly identified himself with sinners and their lot (for fuller discussion see D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John [1991], 148–51).
In the NT Jesus is described as a lamb in three different respects: (a) Acts 8:32 stresses his patient suffering; (b) 1 Pet 1:19 emphasizes the sinlessness and perfection of his sacrifice by the phrase “without blemish or defect”; (c) John 1:29, 36 describe the atoning power of his death: he bears, i.e., wipes out, the sin of the world (cf. TDNT 1:340).
2 The term ἀρήν occurs only once, when Jesus says to his disciples that he is sending them as defenseless “lambs among wolves” (Luke 10:3). This passage is alluded to in 2 Clem. 5.2, which however uses the form ἀρνίον. The latter occurs in John 21:15 (evidently as an undifferentiated synonym of πρόβατον; see vv. 16–17), where the risen Christ exhorts Peter: “Feed my lambs.” The Christian flock belongs to Christ, and he expects its leaders to exercise faithful pastoral oversight.
The only other passages where ἀρνίον occurs are in Revelation, which uses the term repeatedly (29×), almost every time as a designation of Christ (the only exception is Rev 13:11). There appears to be no semantic reason for the choice of this term over ἀμνός. It is important to recall that by the NT period ἀρνίον was no longer thought of as a diminutive; there is therefore no bib. basis for referring to Christ as a “lambkin,” however endearing the idea may be. The thought is rather that the Judge of all the earth is he who died for us, and even as sovereign Lord he still bears the marks of his passion (5:6). Here and in the rest of the chapter (5:8, 12–13) Christ is seen in this twofold aspect: on the one hand, he is the Lord, the one who opens the seals and who is to be worshiped; on the other hand, he is the Lamb who was slain, having redeemed people of all races to God by his blood and made them “a kingdom and priests” (5:9–10). He is both the Lamb and the Lion (5:5). The eschat. judgment from which the mighty and the weak wish to hide is “the wrath of the Lamb” (6:15–16). In ch. 7 it is said that the blood of the Lamb has cleansing power: the robes of the martyrs were cleansed not by their martyrdom, severe as it was, but solely by the blood of the Lamb (7:14). The Lamb is worshiped at the same time as God (7:10). Among several other refs., 19:7–9 speaks of the marriage of the Lamb, the church being the bride (cf. 21:9). The Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple, and they illumine the Holy City (21:22–23; cf. v. 10).

Bibliography

TDNT 1:338–41; EDNT 1:70–72; TDOT 7:43–52. Further bibliog. s.v. πρόβατον G4585."

Moisés Silva, ed., New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology and Exegesis (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2014), 266–268.

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 11:57 PM

Is anyone aware of any NIDOTTE revision on the horizon (like NIDNTTE)? I did an Internet search but couldn't see anything. Thanks. 

Posts 1032
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 1:30 AM

Paul, I don't believe there is any plans to do so for awhile....

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/therealkpang

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 3:18 AM

Keith Pang:

Paul, I don't believe there is any plans to do so for awhile....

Thanks Keith. Looks like a good resource - think I'll take the plunge! 

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 3:31 AM

Detailed (and IMO helpful) review of NIDNTTE here:  https://rbecs.org/2015/06/17/nidntte/

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