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Posts 8
Brian Ramdhan | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Sep 12 2016 4:10 PM

i currently have logos 7 bronze 

is now worth it? 

Posts 23
C Stutzman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 12 2016 7:34 PM

There has been much debate in the forums about this topic. The best thing is to look up all the features that are in feature sets. There is currently 3 different sets. Logos now has the most at a "reasonable" price in that it is cheaper than Logos 7 Full Feature Set. Then there are the Logos 7 Full Feature Set and the Logos 7 Starter Feature Set. And later on they will have a Logos 7 with either really limited or no feature sets but will be free. One of the speculations that I do not understand is that LN is brining in more cash flow when the Full Feature set is more expensive. Costs more so is more cash no? Lol. But the thing about LN is that if you do not need the features, in say 20 years down the road you lose the subscription, you lose all the upgrades to the engine "the features that runs the books". Unless Logos does some kind of a discount paying for those 20 years might be quite a lot. And there are some that have LN and still get the Logos 7 Full Feature Set just for that reason. Just my 2 cents as no one has answered yet.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 12 2016 11:22 PM

Brian Ramdhan:

i currently have logos 7 bronze 

is now worth it? 

It always comes down to the question of "is it worth it for you?"

  • Do you want access to those cloud-based services (such as Bible Browser) that are only available as part of a Logos Now subscription? https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_7_Online_Only_Features gives an indication of the current set
  • Do you want access to new features as they are made available every six weeks or so? https://www.logos.com/now-timeline summarises these in the 6.0 development cycle. We don't know what they will be moving forward
  • Do you want monthly access to previews of resources?
  • Do you want membership-exclusive discounts on products? 

It's really only by answering these types of questions can you determine whether the cost of $99/year (currently $89 but it goes up at the end of the year) is worth it to you

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 3:30 AM

C Stutzman:
One of the speculations that I do not understand is that LN is brining in more cash flow when the Full Feature set is more expensive. Costs more so is more cash no? Lol.

It is not so much that LN will bring in more cash, but that LN will make the cash flow more steady. Rather than having a surge of cash input every 2/3 years when a new version is released and then much smaller cash input until the next version, LN will provide FL with a more stable cash flow.

Posts 23
C Stutzman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 4:45 AM

Graham Criddle:

Brian Ramdhan:

i currently have logos 7 bronze 

is now worth it? 

It always comes down to the question of "is it worth it for you?"

  • Do you want access to those cloud-based services (such as Bible Browser) that are only available as part of a Logos Now subscription? https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_7_Online_Only_Features gives an indication of the current set
  • Do you want access to new features as they are made available every six weeks or so? https://www.logos.com/now-timeline summarises these in the 6.0 development cycle. We don't know what they will be moving forward
  • Do you want monthly access to previews of resources?
  • Do you want membership-exclusive discounts on products? 

It's really only by answering these types of questions can you determine whether the cost of $99/year (currently $89 but it goes up at the end of the year) is worth it to you

Yes I do believe that is what I said although in a different way. While everything you say is true (and you did not mention a get to temporarily use a mobile ed class per month, their choice), I personally feel it is a disservice not explaining that it is a rental. When you stop paying yearly you lose it all. So if you were to pass on getting the new features say every two years (to make it easy) at $200.00 because you have LN, that is $2000.00 after 20 years. $2000.00 due all at once. If you don't get all that while getting the discount under LN, then will be considerably more. Saw a posting of $300 for L7 full feature set. At that point without the LN discount would be $3000.00 to catch up, instead of $2000.00. I know the numbers I plugged in are "worthless". What ever the numbers would actually turn out to be, they will still be very large. It is the fact that you do not own the features of LN. I am not saying it is not worth it. If you can afford the L7 full feature and LN, it is worth it. But if you can only afford one and just rent LN you might be in for one big surprise.

Posts 23
C Stutzman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 4:55 AM

Jack Caviness:

C Stutzman:
One of the speculations that I do not understand is that LN is brining in more cash flow when the Full Feature set is more expensive. Costs more so is more cash no? Lol.

It is not so much that LN will bring in more cash, but that LN will make the cash flow more steady. Rather than having a surge of cash input every 2/3 years when a new version is released and then much smaller cash input until the next version, LN will provide FL with a more stable cash flow.

I guess i should stop trying to reply. I obviously am not very intelligent. I had no idea that a trickle of income is better than a lump sum. I figured with more up front you have the solvency to pay what you need to pay when you need to pay it. And if you have no current bills that need to be taken care of put, it in the bank and earn interest (until you do have a bill) on top of the more cash overall. But thank you, I stand corrected.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 5:55 AM

C Stutzman:
I personally feel it is a disservice not explaining that it is a rental.

I wasn't sure if this comment related to my response or to Faithlife's positioning.

If Faithlife's positioning then they do make this clear in the Logos NOW FAQ - https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow 

What happens if I cancel my membership?

You will lose access to the Logos Cloud Feature Set and all additional member benefits included inLogos Now. Anything you purchased and that is permanently licensed to you, including the Logos Core Engine, will still be available and yours to use. Possible scenarios:

  • If you never purchased a base package, when you cancel your membership, you will only have the Logos Core Engine.
  • If you own Logos 4 and are a Now member, when you cancel your membership, you will lose access to Logos 7 features, Logos 8 early access features, and subscription-only features.
  • If you own Logos 7 and are a Now member, when you cancel your membership, you will lose access to Logos 8 early access features, and subscription-only features.

If to my response - I assumed that Brian was aware of this. If that isn't the case I apologise.

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 6:05 AM

C, the calculation on NOW is a little more obstruse.  So, you are likely quite intelligent.

1. They started collecting NOW money while developing the features. So, technically, the Full Feature payment is a delayed payment, vs NOW.  Whether that is true (how many early NOW'ers), is unknown ... maybe not so many.

2. The bigger money source is the people who buy packages. Features were buried in the package bargain.  NOW gets them paying more ( crossgraders or full-feature people are the minority). 

3. Whether indeed, the equation works, who knows outside Logos.

I suspect NOW'ers like the latest, and have money to burn.  Whether a respective feature is ever completed (eg Atlas) is minor.


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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 6:09 AM

C Stutzman:
 I had no idea that a trickle of income is better than a lump sum. I figured with more up front you have the solvency to pay what you need to pay when you need to pay it. And if you have no current bills that need to be taken care of put, it in the bank and earn interest (until you do have a bill) on top of the more cash overall

Bob Pritchett laid out some of the thinking behind this at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103335/714465.aspx#714465 

Posts 47
Bob Price | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 7:16 PM

Yes I do believe that is what I said although in a different way. While everything you say is true (and you did not mention a get to temporarily use a mobile ed class per month, their choice), I personally feel it is a disservice not explaining that it is a rental. When you stop paying yearly you lose it all. So if you were to pass on getting the new features say every two years (to make it easy) at $200.00 because you have LN, that is $2000.00 after 20 years. $2000.00 due all at once. If you don't get all that while getting the discount under LN, then will be considerably more. Saw a posting of $300 for L7 full feature set. At that point without the LN discount would be $3000.00 to catch up, instead of $2000.00. I know the numbers I plugged in are "worthless". What ever the numbers would actually turn out to be, they will still be very large. It is the fact that you do not own the features of LN. I am not saying it is not worth it. If you can afford the L7 full feature and LN, it is worth it. But if you can only afford one and just rent LN you might be in for one big surprise.

I don't follow some of your numbers.  I understand that paying $100 a year for 20 years equates to a total of $2000, but why do you say it is "due all at once"?  And why would a $300 price for the FFS equal $3000 to catch up?  

Let's go with your example.  If you would have paid $200 every 2 years to buy features, you're not really paying any more over time to go with LN instead.  If that continued forever, you'd really be no worse off, as long as $200 upgrades came every 2 years.  As you said, the real problem comes when you decide to stop your LN subscription.  Although it hasn't been around long enough for us to know, I doubt that a future upgrade will be equivalent to the cumulative cost of all prior upgrades.  So, while buying the FFS today may cost $300 (as it would for me), that doesn't mean it will be $3000 in the future.

I may have missed something in what you were trying to say, so please forgive me, but I just don't think it will be as drastic as you're saying.

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 14 2016 7:47 PM

Brian Ramdhan:

i currently have logos 7 bronze 

is now worth it? 

I was a Logos Now subscriber since its' inception. However, I have since dropped the service after the release of Logos 7. I really enjoyed being a Logos Now member, and felt that it was worth my money at the time. However, I was quite disappointed with their move away from a month-to-month option and their handling of the Logos 7 Full Feature Set. In my opinion the Logos 7 Full Feature Set should have been included in my paying for Logos Now for the extended time I was a member. Essentially that money provided me with no lasting value. (Understand this isn't meant as an overt criticism of Logos, but it just is a major disappointment on my end. One that led to my subscription cancellation.)

I've changed my buying strategy now. I've dropped Logos Now and bought the Full Feature Set. I figure that I can buy the Full Feature Set for just a bit more than a Logos Now membership for a year. They can develop Logos Now for a year plus, and then maybe I will buy back in. However, by that point I might wait a year and save my money to own the Logos 8 Full Feature Set. I just can't commit to spending a $100 a year for the rest of my life with nothing long term to show for it. It was fun having the new features each month, but a $100 is really a bit steep for that opportunity (especially without a lasting benefit). 

Syntax Searching Group | Michigan Logos Users | L5 FAQ | OSX 10.10 | 2.4 GHz i5 | 8 GB Ram

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 12:32 AM

Jonathan:
I just can't commit to spending a $100 a year for the rest of my life with nothing long term to show for it. It was fun having the new features each month, but a $100 is really a bit steep for that opportunity (especially without a lasting benefit). 

My wife has this attitude to doing up the house - she always looks at the residual value.

Me I look at what I will get out of it today and while I live in it.

She treats the property as an investment I treat it as a consumable.

For me the value of 'Now' is book by book, sermon by sermon, query by query, day by day.

When I stop my subscription it will be when I have lost the will to live (or can't remember why I want to live).

Posts 23
C Stutzman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 2:11 PM

Hi Bob. The thing with LN (which is actually great) is that when you no longer subscribe for what ever reason your data sets, interlinears, reverse interlinears, ect. will all be lost. So lets say you do have full logos 6. You start up LN without getting the full feature set. Something happens just a couple of years down the road, and you cannot afford LN. If the full feature sets were up to say L8, well you loose L8 and L7. you will revert back to just L6. Yes I know my example might be ( lol ok definitely is) over the top. The point I was trying to make is that while LN is awesome by itself, it has the drawback of loosing 20, 30, 40, well whatever years of data sets. No drawback at all if you keep up on the data sets. I have seen a lot of posts saying how awesome LN is. And it is. Just that I don't see so much about that one drawback. I have both full L7 and LN. Just looking out for the people that are asking for help to decide. To me that drawback has a huge potential to be not so good. The $2000.00 was buying 20 years worth of feature sets with LN. The $3000.00 was buying 20 years worth of feature sets without LN. I did say those number are whacked. There is no way of knowing what will happen in 20 years. The point was that what ever the cost would end up being, it would be a lot. In say 4 years it wont be so much to catch up. But say your in seminary school and have LN for 50 years then loose it. I would not want to have to catch that up. I personally just think that is need to know info.

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 2:55 PM

Brian Ramdhan:

i currently have logos 7 bronze 

is now worth it? 

Yes

Posts 1095
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 3:47 PM

Brian Ramdhan:

is now worth it? 

ABSOLUTELY

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Posts 123
Fred Littlefield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2016 1:36 AM

My sentiments exactly Jonathan. I was disappointed, thinking that I was helping Logos out on the monthly cash flow problem. Then after the first Upgrade to L7, they changed it to an annual subscription. I also thought that the LN subscription was going to add to what I owned of the product. I understand that they want to avoid having someone subscribe for the last two or three months before the new software release and get it for essentially just two or three LN subscription fees. I'm disappointed on two levels, one that I own nothing for my subscription, and two, they switched the terms from monthly to annually.

I haven't fully decided what to do yet, and I guess I have until December to make my decision. For the same reason, that Logos claimed that they wanted to have it monthly is the same reason I want it monthly. It's less of a shock to my monthly budget to have the smaller monthly fee that the larger annual fee. I went ahead and bought the L7 full feature set upgrade so that I own it. Who knows what my finances will be like in a year from NOW.

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