Help: Finding all <Place> entities in John

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 15 2016 4:07 PM

I want to find all places in John: cities, town, regions, rivers, lakes, etc. I'm hoping that <Place> entities in the book would reflect that information.

First I tried a Bible search for John in the ESV with syntax: <Place *>. That churned for several minutes. Unfortunately it came back with all instances of the literal word "place" followed by whatever the next word was. If I didn't have the <> around the phrase, I'd understand why it did that. And if wildcard entity searches aren't supported, I'd understand not getting any results. But I'm not sure why I got the results I did, or why it took so long to give me those results.

Then I tried Bible Browser. First, I filtered to John. "Places" is a top-level filter, but unfortunately I can't select all places as a filter. So that didn't work out, either.

Two questions, then:

1) How do I find the results I want, irrespective of tool or technique?

2) Does anyone else think that it would be useful for Bible Browser to support what I tried, i.e. let me pick "Places" as the filter and Bible Browser filter down results to all verses that reference a place, no matter which particular place it happens to be?

Thanks much,

Donnie

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 8:32 PM

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2016 11:14 PM

Donnie Hale:
I want to find all places in John: cities, town, regions, rivers, lakes, etc.

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 1:46 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

Selecting the analysis view from the top right allows you to sort by result or by any column as needed

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:11 AM

James Taylor:
Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

Concordance does not include Jerusalem, Jordan, Bethany, Bethsaida, Nazareth (all in Jn 1), & Cana (in Jn 2) and others.

It also fails by including referents that are verbs, adverbs, pronouns.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:15 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

This is more accurate, but omits Israel (93.182) and includes adjectives like Judean.

(<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>, <LN 93.182>) ANDEQUALS  <LogosMorphGr ~ N????>   is better, and helps diagnose where Concordance omits places.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:19 AM

Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool. Another approach is the Bible Browser (Logos Now)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:31 AM

John Fidel:
Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool.

It is misleading because they all have the <Place .....> tag. 'Place' should be renamed

Dave
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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:39 AM

John Fidel:

Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool. Another approach is the Bible Browser (Logos Now)

That's the approach I tried. If you look in your breadcrumb, the only filter is "John." There's no way to add a filter "All Places," which I think is a shortcoming.

Thanks for replying,

Donnie

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:40 AM

Should I take it from your reply that there is no way to do a wildcard search using the <Place> syntax, e.g. <Place *>?

Thanks for replying,

Donnie

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:43 AM

The places and people are on the left and you correctly state you need to select them one at a time, but you have a list to work from.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 5:43 AM

James Taylor:

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

This is the closest I've seen to a straightforward way to do this. I wasn't aware of this capability. As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places." ;) But this might be good enough for now.

Thank you for replying,

Donnie

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 6:13 AM

Donnie Hale:
As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places."

Yes, maybe this has to be a two step-er at least in the concordance tool, but the Louw-Nida seach is a good approach too. Thanks for the learning experience.

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 6:16 AM

They should allow us to choose the top category such as all people or all places or all the women in the Bible and then allow us to create a visual filter.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 6:22 AM

Donnie Hale:

James Taylor:

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

This is the closest I've seen to a straightforward way to do this. I wasn't aware of this capability. As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places." ;) But this might be good enough for now.

Thank you for replying,

Donnie

Also, curiously, "Any Place" is not just any place, but any unnamed place.

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 6:30 AM

I get the same type of thing when I do a search for the places Paul went <Place Cities Paul went>  I know you have to put these generic hits into some kind of category but it tends to be confusing for the person searching.  If they allowed to search for the very top category then allot of more powerful searches could be done such as all the cities or places Jesus visited and then preformed a miracle.     

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Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 8:18 AM

Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 9:14 AM

Dave Hooton:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

This is more accurate, but omits Israel (93.182) and includes adjectives like Judean.

(<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>, <LN 93.182>) ANDEQUALS  <LogosMorphGr ~ N????>   is better, and helps diagnose where Concordance omits places.

LN 93.487 is often translated Jews, which refers to the people.

Place search that includes many unnamed ones (e.g. Judean territory) is a bit more expansive:

(<ln1.1>,<ln1.5>,<ln1.11-1.12>,<ln1.39>,<ln1.46>,<ln1.60>,<ln1.70>,<ln1.79>,<ln1.86>,<ln1.88>,<ln1.95>,<ln1.97>,<ln4.23>,<ln7.3>,<ln7.7>,<ln7.15-7.16>,<ln7.20>,<ln7.49>,<ln7.56-58>,<ln7.75>,<ln9.7>,<ln9.22-9.23>,<ln11.44>,<ln11.46>,<ln11.55>,<ln15.137>,<ln41.38>,<ln80.1>,<ln 93.182>,<ln93.389-93.486>,<ln93.488–93.561>,<ln93.563-93.615>,<ln3.5>) OR (<ln93.487> WITHIN 0 WORDS (Judea,Judean)) OR (<ln84.13> WITHIN 0 WORDS "from above")

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 10:16 AM

Schumitinu:

Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

That's pretty helpful - thanks. Only thing I can tell from your screenshot (I'm not in front of L7 right now) is that I'd have to click on each item under "Biblical Places" to get to the verses for that place. So in terms of what constitutes a "place," that looks like a better list than what's in Concordance or Bible Browser (which is odd, and discouraging). But it still won't give me the full set of verses with any of those places, in canonical order.

Thanks again,

Donnie

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 12:59 PM

Donnie Hale:
full set of verses with any of those places, in canonical order.

For this always think export to Passage List and sort.

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