Layouts taking forever to open

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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 10:34 PM

Bruce Dunning:

I don't think that I am able to email a file that is 85 MB. The last time Mark gave me a dropbox link that I used to send it to him. It might be easier for him to send it to you but I might be able to figure it out if needed.

Zip it up and it might get a lot smaller.  Could be 1/3 - 1/8 smaller.

Posts 1081
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 11:35 PM

Bruce Dunning:
Mark, are you thinking that this "bug" might be specific to me? Otherwise, why would others not be experiencing the same thing?

I reported the speed issues with the layout menu way back in 2014 (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/84465.aspx) and that the solution was deleting snapshots, old saves etc. Others have made similar requests since then ... you are not alone!

If I remember then, it was also effecting my overall logo speed ... but i could be wrong. Since 2014 I have been deleting evry snapshot and second copy of a layout as part of my routine.

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 12:20 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Bruce or Mark,

Could you email Bruce's layouts.db to testing@faithlife.com (or a Dropbox download link or some way to retrieve the file)? We'd like to take a look at it here too.

I've emailed a Dropbox link to that address. It's a 235Mb file, zipped to around 85Mb.

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 12:21 AM

Martin Folley:
I reported the speed issues with the layout menu way back in 2014 (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/84465.aspx) and that the solution was deleting snapshots, old saves etc. Others have made similar requests since then ... you are not alone!

Which proves my analysis is essentially correct. I'm surprised we haven't heard more people complain, but this issue might explain why some people find Logos much slower than others.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 5:45 AM

Gao Lu:
Zip it up and it might get a lot smaller.  Could be 1/3 - 1/8 smaller.

That was the zipped size!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 5:47 AM

Mark Barnes:

Martin Folley:
I reported the speed issues with the layout menu way back in 2014 (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/84465.aspx) and that the solution was deleting snapshots, old saves etc. Others have made similar requests since then ... you are not alone!

Which proves my analysis is essentially correct. I'm surprised we haven't heard more people complain, but this issue might explain why some people find Logos much slower than others.

Thanks Martin for reminding me of this thread. Mark, I'm increasingly becoming more convinced of your analysis and I too am surprised that we have not heard more people complain of slower speeds because of this.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 2766
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 3:30 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
That is an awful lot of SSDs for that period of time. I wonder if it may be better to just go for or stay with 7200rpm drives. Most of my drives outlast the general architecture of the machine, and that is with heavy use and barely no air conditioning.

Yes I was disappointed with the life of these drives but I could not think of using Logos without a SSD as I would spend all of my time waiting for it to index etc. which is what it used to be like.

Hi Bruce; This is an update of my previous reply on 9/25/2016.

Guess what? My son in-law blessed me with a Dell Precision M4800 Workstation Laptop with an i7 QC 2.8, 32G RAM, and a 512G SSD. All of a sudden, my other Logos machines seen somewhat unbearable. Big Smile

Posts 2985
LogosEmployee
Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 3:35 PM

Mark Barnes:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Bruce or Mark,

Could you email Bruce's layouts.db to testing@faithlife.com (or a Dropbox download link or some way to retrieve the file)? We'd like to take a look at it here too.

I've emailed a Dropbox link to that address. It's a 235Mb file, zipped to around 85Mb.

Mark, 

I received the file and have updated the case.

Thanks for helping get Bruce's file to us.

Posts 8195
LogosEmployee

Mark Barnes:

You have 31 different named layouts, but Logos is also storing previous versions of those layouts. It's particularly an issue with your Bible study layout, which you've updated hundreds of times. If you look in your layouts menu (if you can bear to click it!), and scroll through the right-hand portion, you'll see all those old versions of the layouts still there, and if you kept scrolling, I imagine you'll see all 1,626 (or at least more than 31).

I don't know whether this is a bug, or just a design decision that isn't working well for you. Personally, I no longer use layouts, and I don't know what's supposed to happen when you update a layout.

Logos 7 will automatically purge old unnamed layouts but it keeps all layouts you have explicitly named. (The thinking was that if you named it, it was important. We didn't ask "what will happen if someone updates the same layout daily for five years?", probably because when this code was written, Logos 4 might not even have been shipping yet!)

It's now time to ask that question. For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?

Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

Edit: bear in mind that since we don't currently provide any way to restore a deleted layout from documents.logos.com, any layouts automatically deleted by this algorithm won't be easily recoverable. (This is a separate problem, and one we could fix to also help customers who mistakenly delete the wrong layout.)

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 5:22 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

It's now time to ask that question. For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?

Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

The (macOS) Time Machine style of versioning is a practical approach, where it keeps hourly copies for today, every other hour for yesterday, daily copies of the last month, and weekly copies for the last years.

The reason why I recommend a more complex approach like that, rather than simply truncating or aging the revisions is that:

  • Keeping most recent wouldn't be safe by itself. For example, when Logos 7 came out, I probably made 10 revisions to my (L6) layout to accommodate the new features, before settling on my present layout. I definitely wouldn't want my "original" to inadvertently be blown away, if I experimented more than the threshold allowed, and was stuck with only today's revisions to fall back on.
  • The older than n days approach has potential, but you'd have to ensure you retained a minimum number for that approach, or you'd end up with the  scenario that all duplicates are eventually older then n days, and have no backup at all.

Some last m, n, o copies per day, week, month, up to months is a bit more complex then simply truncating or aging, yet would give the most flexibility, by preserving p older (major) changes without letting the number of recent daily (or weekly) smaller changes grow out of hands.

That would give someone the most flexibility of being able to revert back to either a recent or a distant version (of a particular named layout).

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 5:40 PM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
y son in-law blessed me with a Dell Precision M4800 Workstation Laptop with an i7 QC 2.8, 32G RAM, and a 512G SSD. All of a sudden, my other Logos machines seen somewhat unbearable. Big Smile

That sure is a blessing!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 9215
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 5:46 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Logos 7 will automatically purge old unnamed layouts but it keeps all layouts you have explicitly named. (The thinking was that if you named it, it was important. We didn't ask "what will happen if someone updates the same layout daily for five years?"

That describes me to a "T" because I use a fairly complicated daily Bible reading/devotional layout. I want it updated each day so that I can return to where I left off.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

It's now time to ask that question. For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?

Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

Personally I don't care about returning to previous layout so long as I can return to where I left off.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 2200
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 6:01 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

Keep 10 Copies of named layouts (why keep any exact duplicate copies?)

Keep copies for 180 days.

Posts 2766
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 6:15 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

Keep the most recent 5 (that should be enough). Retain for 60 days at the most.

Posts 1081
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2016 1:04 AM

I would look at a 14 day layout 'barrier'. Older than 14 days will consist of a single (most recent) copy of named layouts only. Within the 10 days, everything is saved up to a maximum of 5 copies.

I suppose that the two numbers could be made user changeable in the settings ... ?

Bradley: If layouts are going to be looked at ... could you look at the way that shortcuts are handled. I have not checked lately because I stopped using shortcuts because of a design flaw. I am talking about the horizontal shortcuts dragged to the top of the app, not the vertical ones within the Layout menu.These horizontal shortcuts (used to?) point to a particular instance of a layout. Not much point for those of us who update layouts ... and maybe a problem when those historical layouts are culled. What I would expect is that the shortcut point to the name (internal ID?) of a desktop, and then activates the latest version of that desktop. I would like to have three shortcuts for my favourite three layouts that always bring the latest version of the layout ... never having to open the layout menu ... if we could also have a button 'update latest layout'.

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 2200
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2016 4:24 AM

Martin Folley:

.. if we could also have a button 'update latest layout'.

Yes

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2016 5:01 AM

Gao Lu:

Martin Folley:

.. if we could also have a button 'update latest layout'.

Yes

This already exists. I just created a shortcut for this. After waiting several minutes for the layout to open (reason I created this thread) I was able to get this snapshot. I just dragged it to the shortcut bar. But I used to think it was just updating whereas now I believe an entirely new copy was being created and permanently saved.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2016 3:14 PM

So this must be my problem as well because I heavily use layouts and am constantly updating them.

However, NEVER ONCE have I EVER gone back to a layout I updated, so for me, it really doesn't matter how long they are kept.  I'm happy with them be purged but I can see how others may not be, so how about 5 layout saves for 14 days?  That's my vote.

Edited to add:  I'm still hoping that a day will come when we can share layouts.  I think my students who purchased logos at my suggestion would actually start using it!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2016 5:12 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?

Keep the most recent 5 copies (in the instance that defines them) and delete duplicate copies (synced from another instance?) after 60 days.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 2902
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2016 8:17 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?

I'm a layout user, and I'm 6'3" and 238 lbs, so you could say I'm a heavy layout user. I'm also relatively tall, but I digress.

Here are my current layouts-

Of these, eight are marked 'temp' layouts that I'll use once and delete. They may linger for a couple months while I get through these particular readings.

Three others were used a few times and haven't been re-used in some time.

There are about seven more, give or take a couple, that I only use a couple times a year.

That still leaves me with quite a few more than ten that I don't want to disappear.

But I also don't want layouts taking forever to open.

I believe the new customizable Quickstart and Homepage layouts will mitigate this a bit...I've already saved four or five of my saved layouts over the provided ones. (It would sure be nice if the titles of those were editable, BTW.) So that cuts a few more out.

Even so, I'd say my minimum would be around 20. Not optimal, for sure.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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