The last while layout have taken a long time to open for me. I timed it last time and it took over 3 minutes. I'm on 7.0 SR3. Is anyone else experiencing this?
The application would never delete the only saved instance of a named layout (in this new proposal).
The issue here is that whenever you update a named layout, a copy is made (with the same name), and those copies are saved forever. We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
The application would never delete the only saved instance of a named layout (in this new proposal). The issue here is that whenever you update a named layout, a copy is made (with the same name), and those copies are saved forever. We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
Okay, that's perfect for me! No...I have NEVER EVER gone back and used those old copies. I just wanted to make sure that this isn't a matter of HOW long a named layout has been around but how long an OLD COPY of a named layout has been around.
I agree this needs to be done, especially if it's slowing down layouts so much.
Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
I'm confused. Please clarify "old copies" in relation to "most recent copies" and "duplicate copies". Which will be retained by number & which will be retained by time?
I'm confused. Please clarify "old copies" in relation to "most recent copies" and "duplicate copies".
In all cases we're talking about multiple layout snapshots with the same name. Create a layout called "My Amazing Layout". Update it twice. You now have three "copies". One is "the most recent copy". Two are "old copies". "Duplicate copies" is probably a bad name; I meant "additional versions of a named layout with the same name".
Which will be retained by number & which will be retained by time?
That's the question I'm asking for input on.
Logos 7 will automatically purge old unnamed layouts
Are these "snapshots" and "Application closed"? On what basis are they purged?
Create a layout called "My Amazing Layout". Update it twice. You now have three "copies". One is "the most recent copy". Two are "old copies"
I have 7 copies. If the five "most recent" will be kept that means there are two "old copies"; which will be deleted after a certain time? Which also means that the five "most recent" copies of every layout will be kept forever??
Consider
Will the app consider Laptop 6 and Desktop 6 for deletion, or only consider them in the occurrence from which they were synced?
Whether you have 5 named layouts or 50 named layouts, the most recent of every named layout will always be retained (regardless of which device they were synced from). The app would never delete the latest version of any named layout, regardless of the total number of layouts you have, or how much time has passed. You can expect to always have at least one copy of each named layout.
Any future deletion would only affect older versions (copies, duplicates) of each named layout. These would be the ones with orange comments, in the screenshot:
As for whether it would keep 5/10/??? copies of each named layout, or merely delete older copies of a named layout once 30/60/??? days have passed, that's what Bradley is asking us to suggest, that Logos might implement what most people prefer.
Although I don't use layouts myself, I think it would be sensible to have the following rules:
Never delete the most recent copy of a saved layout. Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout. Delete old versions of saved layouts after thirty days.
The first rule is a guaranteed certainty! (It's good to state it to resolve any confusion.)
The third rule might mean that there is only the most recent copy of a saved layout, when all other copies of that layout are older than 30 days. Is it acceptable to eventually only have one version of each saved layout? (Probably so, but just want people to be aware of what that means.)
Since the third rule trumps the second rule, the second rule ends up as, "Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout within the last 30 days."
That makes sense to me.
Agreed. But I kept them separate because I thought some people might say, "I agree with rule (2), but would prefer not to have rule (3)", or vice versa.
Hi Bruce,
Was just wondering if you have had any resolution to this problem of slow opening layouts.
The thread seems to be leaning towards a problem with the accumulation of layouts building up and not being purged. I checked this in my Logos and found that I also had many instances as displayed on the right hand side of the Layouts dropdown (not near as many as you however). I use layouts extensively, as you mentioned you do as well, but I only have 7 created, named and saved layouts on the left hand side. My most used study layout has 3 frames (or panels; forgive me, not certain of the nomenclature) and a combined total of 25 tabs as well as the Info panel. It takes me 23 seconds to launch this layout and be able to use it
I deleted all of the extra layouts that had accumulated on the right side of the Layouts dropdown individually (very time consuming) so that all that remained were the latest updates of my 7 created layouts. After doing this and re-launching Logos I did not experience any significant decrease in the launch time for the layouts that I have. As mentioned by another poster in this thread I now manually purge the older updated layouts daily before I close Logos. I also noticed that every time I shut Logos down an instance of "Application Closed" shows up and wants to accumulate in the right hand side of the Layouts dropdown. Could be by design but not sure of the significance.
I know that I am not experiencing the time delays that you have and I didn't have near the number of accumulated saves on the right side nor anywhere near your number of created saved layouts on the left but it makes me wonder if this is what is causing the delay for you or the problem lies elsewhere.
Anyway, I was just checking to see if the Logos Desktop Team has reached a definitive answer and solution for you regarding this problem or if you are still experiencing 3+ minute delays..
Blessings,
Gary
I think both rules effectively work well together, and it is a good proposal as it stands, Mark.
Thanks for asking Gary. I'm sure that the desktop team is working on it but I have not yet received any resolution to how long layouts take to open. I think they are watching this thread closely as they determine the best way to proceed. I'm looking forward to having this resolved in due time. Thanks again!
I'm just checking in again to ask someone at Faithlife if any progress has been made on this issue. Lately I have noticed what seems to be a slight improvement on loading my layouts but it still took 1 minute and 40 seconds to load.
Thanks.
Thanks for staying on top of this Bruce.
Bump...an update would be appreciated.
There is no new news to report on this issue.
Thanks Andrew. I'll just have to be patient and wait.
I like Mark's proposed rules above.
Even more - after reading this thread and thinking about it, I decided to go back in the layouts menu and delete a lot of layouts. Mine go back to 2009. I didn't realize I had so many. And, often my practice had to been to update anytime I added info. to a layout. So, I had a lot of old layouts where newer ones should have replaced them.
So, after deleting them I saw a TREMENDOUS increase in application start up time.
I have been a habitual complainer about how slow Logos was... And, I had recently replaced my old HP laptop with a newer system with 16GB RAM, 512SSD and new Skylake processor, Windows 10 Pro. I still no appreciable increase in load time until now.
It was taking 1minute 45 seconds to load Logos 7. Now, I get the orange circle at 15-20 seconds! Wow!
Wow, that is a huge difference. How many layouts did you have to delete?
I'm very much hoping that Faithlife will make improvements in the near future. Meanwhile it is tempting to do what you did but I have a huge number of old layouts since I have updated my Bible reading layout daily for many years.
Bill, I just tried to see how long it would take to begin to delete old layouts and my early Bible Reading layouts were taking an average of over 1 minute for each one to delete. Based on that it would take hours for me to delete my old layouts.
Does anyone know of a way to delete multiple layouts at the same time?
I deleted a bunch! What I did was tried to keep the newest version. So, I started at the bottom (oldest date) and slowly scrolled up the list. If I saw a duplicate name I deleted the old one and kept the newer one. It took a while, but each deletion took a few seconds - maybe 5-10 seconds each once I clicked delete.
It took a while, but each deletion took a few seconds - maybe 5-10 seconds each once I clicked delete.
After reading this I opened layouts (which took 75 seconds just to do that) and then deleted the oldest layout and that took another 75 seconds. I would be willing to do what you did if it only took 5-10 seconds but it would take me many hours to do what you did.
Faithlife really needs to fix this.
Indeed. Something seems awry.
As this thread progressed, I went through the exercise of deleting my old layouts, going back to when L4 was first released. It probably took 3-5 seconds for each layout to be deleted. If it's taking a minute for each layout (more precisely, each instance of a particular layout), that might be indicative of other challenges.
Donnie
I think it's just that Bruce has so many layouts, that any operation from the layouts menu is going to take that sort of time.
As this thread progressed, I went through the exercise of deleting my old layouts, going back to when L4 was first released. It probably took 3-5 seconds for each layout to be deleted. If it's taking a minute for each layout (more precisely, each instance of a particular layout), that might be indicative of other challenges. I think it's just that Bruce has so many layouts, that any operation from the layouts menu is going to take that sort of time.
That's it exactly. Remember, I have updated my layout page every day as I do my daily Bible Reading so there are hundreds of them. As I was doing this I had no idea that Logos was keeping every one of them. I thought it was only updating each one and deleting the others.
This should be fixed in 7.3 beta 1. If I've understood the release notes correctly, the extra layouts will be deleted on startup, which may significantly slowdown your first startup after installing 7.3. But after that your layouts menu should behave.
We usually wait to update threads that are not in the beta forum until the fix actually comes to a stable release. However, if anyone who has been seeing these issues is on the beta channel, we'd love to get feedback and find out if the situation has been improved.
Thanks for the update. Currently I don't have the time to be running a beta as well so I look forward to the release of 7.3, [Y]
Bruce,
This should be fixed in 7.3 (7.3.0.0031)
Thanks for this Christmas present, mine was not terribly slow but now seems to be faster!
[G] [:)]
A big thanks to you and your team Philana! I'm looking forward to actually using layouts again once this is fixed.
I just thought I'd provide an update after I downloaded the latest version (7.3 (7.3.0.0031).
I tested opening and closing my standard and most complicated layout and the average speed was 55 seconds. It is not as good as I hoped but it is a lot better than it was. Thank you.
Again this saddens me as I am being told by Faithlife that all the connectivity that is touted as an advantage can not be utilized.
I'm not sure you can blame Logos for that when you have 572 collections! I would imagine that a large number of those you don't use regularly, and could just recreate using quick collections if/when you need them. Many of them have errors in or are unnecessarily complex. For example, Commentary AND (Subject:N.T.Hebrews,Title:"Horae Homileticae Vol. 19") OR type:”bible commentary” AND (title:hebrews OR subject:hebrews), could be re-written simply as type:bible-commentary subject:"N. T. Hebrews".
Sure I can blame Logos because without the ability to access all the features of Logos the connectivity that is used to promote the software becomes at best false at worst purposefully Misleading.
Or you could look at it as all the connectivity must be used efficiently and wisely ... something I assume in all technology. I have yet to find software that I cannot break or render unresponsive it I set my mind to it.
I think there is truth in what you say. I just can't stop thinking that between the minimum requirements listed for the the software, no warning from the product makers as to utilizing more than x books with x resources necessitates a scale back on product usage along side constant feature expansion, but no improvement to product utility my so far $25,000.00 investment will never reach its promised potential.
All of my other expensive software comes with warning or restrictions as to utility, speed, data storage etc. Were it not for folks like you I would not know any of the software drawbacks.
When you say "opening a layout", do you mean choosing it from the Layouts menu so that all the resources and panels in the layout are opened? If so, this was not the focus of the optimisation in Logos 7.3.
After reading this I opened layouts (which took 75 seconds just to do that) and then deleted the oldest layout and that took another 75 seconds.
This is the problem that should be fixed in Logos 7.3.
Yes, I knew that this was not the focus of the optimization is 7.3.
Yes, this has noticeably improved. Thank you.
