Thank Your Pastor for a Chance to Win Logos 7 Gold!

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Zach Welsh | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 4 2016 1:12 PM

Being a pastor is tough. Grueling hours. Hard work. And far too often, it's a thankless job. It's time we tell our pastors just how much they mean to us. During the month of October, Faithlife is celebrating the hard work and high calling of pastors.

We’re giving you a unique opportunity to publicly thank the pastors in your life with a custom message. And when you do, we’ll enter both you and your pastor for a chance to win Logos 7 Gold! Anyone who enters will also get the Lexham Press Logos book Every Square Inch free!

We’ve created a custom message builder and #ThanksPastor video to make it easy to say thanks. Visit Logos.com/Thanks-Pastor to craft your  message. Tag your pastor on Facebook or Twitter, use the hashtag #ThanksPastor, and share your gratitude.

When you share your post on Twitter Facebook, we’ll enter both you and your pastor to win a Logos 7 Gold base package, and give you Every Square Inch free! Tell your pastors—and the world!—how much you appreciate them; visit Logos.com/Thanks-Pastor today.

 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 2:27 PM

Our pastor has been serving for 46 years at the same church. I'd thank him online, but he doesn't use Facebook or Twitter. He still prefers using print books instead of a computer.

It may be hard work, but I don't think he would call it a job. He loves serving the Lord, and God has blessed him, and us.

When I reflect on my pastor's humility, maturity, and compassion, I marvel at all the fruit that God has produced in this man's life, and all the glory that God will get.

I'm not only thankful for my pastor's sermons and bible studies, I'm thankful to God to see the character of a life yielded with love to God. I don't expect he knows how much he has truly taught us, not merely in word, but also in deed.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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Richard Wardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 3:02 PM

Hey Zach! 

Welcome to the forums! 

Quick question - is the competition to win L7 Gold available outside the US. For example, the UK? 

Asking for a friend.. 

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 6:35 PM

I don't mean to be negative, maybe I've been in the wrong side of the country (Texas, Tennessee, Florida), but I have yet to meet a minister/pastor that does "grueling hours" or "hard work." 

I understand being a minister is tough, I'll give them that (dealing with people is very tough over all).  But as far as "Grueling hours" goes, every single minister I've met spend most of their time going in and out of the office.  Maybe an occasional visit here and there to the hospital, but most of them that I have met spend their time alternating between their office and the golf course, fishing and home or some activities that are not even related to their work.  As far as "Hard work" goes, the lie that goes around "Academic" articles like the one I read recently on the Gospel Coalition is just not true and is trying too hard to make the job/calling look like something really hard.  The lie was that it takes 15 hours to prepare a sermon (expository sermon in the article).  While I agree an expository sermon takes some time to prepare and that time is subjective, I don't believe it takes 15 hours.  Imagine 15 hours a piece for 2 sermons (i.e Sunday morning and evening) - that's 30 hours just sitting and doing research to have a couple of decent expository sermons.  That's just preparing the sermons, not practicing delivery.  Add to that the time it takes to prepare a class for Wednesday night and one for Sunday morning - and what if the class is a verse exposition of some book (that would make it expository), that would be another 15 hours, not counting the other class which could be a topical lesson that still needs research (Make it 5 hours research and prep time).  What do we have now? 15x3 = 45 + 5 = 50 hours just sitting down and writing lessons.  Add 4 hours delivering lessons (1 hour per lesson).  Who in the heck is going to believe that lie? To add to the "hard work" part, when does the "minister" go out to evangelize and make himself known in the community, visit the sick, visit the members to get to know them, etc.? What about time with his family?

There are 168 hours a week.  Most sleep their 8 hours or more (quite a few sleep more I'd say).  So 8 hours of sleep a week that's 56 + 50 preparing sermons and lessons, plus 4 delivering those lessons (1 hour each) that's 110 hours that include sleeping and preparing lessons and delivering them.  He's got out of the 168 hours a week 58 left.  What about the time he spends in the golf course going to and coming from there (8 hours give or take depending how often he goes).  What about his "day (s) off" where he does nothing but relax? 58 - 8 golfing = 50 - 48 hours (two days off) = 8 hours left. What about the evenings where most are with family relaxing anyway or chit-chatting.  Say from 5pm to 11pm that's 6 hours per day x 5 days (Mon-Fri) that's 30 hours in 5 days. Oh, oh, wow, wait...168 hours in a week - 110 sleeping, preparing lessons and delivering them - 8 a week golfing - 48 meaning two days off - 30 hours of evening time with family (because family is important) that equals to -28!!!! Yes NEGATIVE 28!!!

Wow! I guess there aren't enough hours in the week to do the work of the "pastor/minister" -- And I didn't even include the long lunches with buddies or the secretary and time spent writing bulletin articles.  Even if I took off the 8 hours golfing and adjusted the days off, we'd still have a negative balance, which is unrealistic!

I believe being a minister is a good thing, but please people, be realistic, don't try to make the job look harder than what it really is! You know the sad part, I've known quite a few pastors that won't work for a church unless they have a salary of 60k per year, plus benefits and parsonage - and unfortunately, a lot of churches have the mindset that "Oh poor guy, he's making a big sacrifice so we'll take care of him" and the members are just ignorant of the truth just because the pastor is so nice to them...LOL..."oh my pastor, he prays for me..." or so they say.

The worse I've seen in recent times are "missionaries" that go to a third world country with a 40k (or more) per year salary just to live there, plus an emergency fund in case they have to run from the country and add to that a 20k working fund and on top of that, they don't go and start from scratch, but they go pretty much to supervise a work that has already been started by someone else.  They commit to 5 years, but spend 18 months (a year and a half learning the language [trying to at least] and surveying the land!).  Oh but they are sacrificing a lot by leaving the USA to go to a third world country and live better than the people there! A wife of one of the missionaries said that she wasn't gonna go to no country that didn't have Direct TV because she was not about to miss out on "Monday Night Football" some broad she is, wow what a commitment!!! Most of the time when you go to a third world country you come back thin, but these "missionaries" came back FAT! LOL Lots of tea parties, lots of barbq's at home, lots of visits to the best restaurants in the mission field and lots of traveling to nearby countries and their tourists views because they have to relax and be stress free because of the sacrifice they are making! Ha! And they are so cynical they include those things in their mission reports.  And what work are they doing, "Oh I started reading Revelation Four Views for my personal study and development and also read this other books and helped the brethren and a mission team from an american university pass some flyers on Saturday and boy the people are in real need of the gospel here, you should've seen the look in their faces when we gave them that flyer... so touching!" Wow, I read the reports and I was so disappointed, to say the least!

Sad to say, but being a "pastor/minister" has become more of an easy job to avoid work that does not involve heavy lifting or working under the sun. A student in a school of preaching/seminary was asked why he chose preaching and he said, "Well, I tried being a taxi driver, cutting grass, mechanic and then I said, you know what, I'll try preaching." Another student was asked to tell the wonderful story on how he became a preacher - his story was, "Well the director of the school of preaching asked me to come to preaching school and that he would help me to find full financial support to study 2 years full time, but I said no.  Then, 2 weeks later I got laid off and I told my wife, 'honey pack up the bags, we're going to preaching school' and here I am" he said.  I was like wow...some story!

A pastor/minister deserves a normal salary, with help for retirement, but nothing fancy that puts him in a life style that's way above the church members.  We need to be fair to ministers, be thankful for their work and provide a decent salary, but not overdo those things, because most if not all, will take advantage of that.

Then again, there's the other extreme.  Churches that want ministers to work for peanuts! (i.e. free housing with utilities paid and 1000 dollars a month); oh and they have to pay their own taxes, social security, retirement, groceries, etc. and we'll micro manage you like you have no idea)!

I'll thank my ministers for the work they do so they'll know they are appreciated, but they shouldn't let that get over their heads because they know they are getting well paid for the job they do!

Happy Pastor's Appreciation Month!

DAL

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 8:10 PM

DAL,

Your observations about mission work could not be further away from the truth. This attitude is just sad.

Feel free to drop by here in Phnom Penh any time, to get a first hand experience of life in a "3rd world country".

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Seminary Student (VIU).
Christian Debate Forum --- Auferstanden! Blog

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 8:57 PM

DAL:
I don't mean to be negative

It certainly appears that way to me.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 10:42 PM

Jan and Bruce, perhaps I should clarify, I was referring to the people I've known so far; I'm not generalizing. I'm sure there might be a few good men left out there doing the right thing.

DAL

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Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 4 2016 11:12 PM

DAL after 29 Years of Fulltime Ministry as Youth Evangelist and Missionary in German I know what you are talking about...and you are right! There are these People out there like you said, and I also know a Lot of them...but I put my Trust in those Jan mentioned and I also know theses Guys well who knows being a Pastor means to be the Man for the Faith of the People God gave them to take care, to feet and to love...AND (don't forget) to also being judge more than normal Christians for there Teaching. It is also hard Work to come over the "Normal Church Member Preach Stile" as it is God loves you, Everything is fine with you and you will go to Heaven. If you ever try to preach about anything else you will know what it means Hard Work!

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Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 5 2016 1:40 AM

Hi DAL, 

There are times when the opinions you express on these forums is less than constructive but this is surely a destructive and damaging opinion that says more I think about you than it does about pastors and missionaries. There are sadly those I'm sure who resemble the picture you have painted but James 3:1 is enough to say about them. All of us need to be mindful of James 3:10. 

This is a thread about Pastors Appreciation Month, and I think that is a lovely US tradition, something the church in the UK does not observe. Before I entered pastoral ministry myself, I was richly blessed through the pastors at my church. As a young person I was welcomed often into their homes, given guidance when I asked for it, treated with patience and grace, and generously supported when I began training for pastoral ministry. I often wish I had a pastor now, though I am grateful for good networks of support from friends in ministry. 

Colin

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 5 2016 1:49 AM

DAL, if your account of your experience of pastors is accurate, I can only say that you should move to a different church immediately, and move to a church where the pastor understands that he's a servant of Christ. I've never met any minister that is how you describe, and I'd be horrified if I did.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 5 2016 1:51 AM

I concur with Sascha, DAL. I have been both a pastor and missionary (and will probably be again when my studies are done). 

It is true, as you say, that there are people in ministry who take advantage of their position to take it easy.

It is also true that a pastor's work, like that of other person or office oriented jobs, is not comparable to the physical labour of construction or road work. In this sense, it is physically comfortable. 

I have found however ministry work very difficult because:

(1) It is a leadership position but often in an environment in which the leaders are more lightning rods for complaints and discontent than are empowered to do their jobs. Unlike a manager, you can't "fire" congregants when they are being just destructive. Many congregants are unreasonable (though there are also many who are wonderful). They call you on your days and time off for trifles. They come to your door. They have opinions about your wife and children. It is like being a politician who is always scrutinised.

(2) There is a lot of conflict management because church work is with people (and they fight all the time!), and as stated above, people expect the pastor to fix things, to take their side, to accommodate them, etc. There is a lot of consumerism in churches now. I have never had as much stress as when I was a FT pastor: stomach cramps and all, late meetings with people who are verbally violent and expect you to take it gracefully.

(3) The people who are in ministry for the wrong reasons do not like those who actually do the work and frequently go after them. There are people who are appointed who never should be. They are looking for their own interests, their ambitions, and get jealous. They try to steamroll over those who stand in their way. There are especially many conflicts on the missions field where some missionaries feel they can get away with more. 

(4) Compared to the years of study and the financial strain they represent, ministry work is poorly paid and often offers poor vacation and benefits as compared to a regular job. I know because I have done both. I have worked harder than many people I know to do the best at my work but they have bought homes, pay themselves trips all the time, and have money when I don't. I am not saying this to complain or to present myself as spiritual, but more to give an insight into what the pastor's life can be like. 

(5) When I worked for a business, I was done when work was over. I could think about issues at work or a deadline coming, but it was nothing like when as a pastor you really care for the people you minister to and carry their problems and heartaches with you around the clock. It is comparable to the way a parent worries about a wayward child or a hurting friend, except that (on top of your own) you have many more people of whom this is true. Nothing like having to find the words to comfort people with terminal cancer, the family of a child who was killed in an accident or murdered, etc. These don't happen every day but regularly enough.

The jobs that approximate best the stresses of ministry are that of manager, doctor, and social worker.

So, DAL, I agree that there are many who are in ministry and are not worth their salt or uninspiring. But I also know many who have accepted a lonely and difficult vocation for the sake of others and to serve God. 

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 5 2016 2:35 AM

Mark Barnes:

DAL, if your account of your experience of pastors is accurate, I can only say that you should move to a different church immediately, and move to a church where the pastor understands that he's a servant of Christ. I've never met any minister that is how you describe, and I'd be horrified if I did.

Exactly this.

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 5 2016 4:07 AM

Mark Barnes:

DAL, if your account of your experience of pastors is accurate, I can only say that you should move to a different church immediately, and move to a church where the pastor understands that he's a servant of Christ. I've never met any minister that is how you describe, and I'd be horrified if I did.

Yes


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

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Zach Welsh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 6 2016 10:49 AM

As a new forum user, it's heart warming to see the support for the hard working pastors in our lives. If you would like to share a particularly encouraging story about a pastor, send us an email at stories@faithlife.com. Your story could be used in a special pastor appreciation month blog post.

Richard Wardman:

Welcome to the forums! 

Quick question - is the competition to win L7 Gold available outside the US. For example, the UK? 

Hello Richard, the contest is limited to current residents of the U.S. 

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 6 2016 11:11 AM

Zach Welsh:

the contest is limited to current residents of the U.S. 

Can I suggest posting that information on the page? It's always a bit depressing to be excluded, but less so if its clear up front. Shan't whinge too much as it's a good cause.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 6 2016 11:25 AM

DAL ... you're too funny.  I have to agree ... limiting to known instances. Of all the folks that do work in my world, I'd say you're right.

But it's person specific, obviously. Our pastor doesn't live in the lap of luxury, so much of his work is home DIY, and handyman-ing others too. My Dad had it comparatively easy I think, but he was gone most evenings ... adjust to other people's schedules. And his Bible got him fired every 2-3 years, so the family moved, and moved, and moved. All depends on the situation.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 6 2016 12:41 PM

GregW:

Mark Barnes:

DAL, if your account of your experience of pastors is accurate, I can only say that you should move to a different church immediately, and move to a church where the pastor understands that he's a servant of Christ. I've never met any minister that is how you describe, and I'd be horrified if I did.

Yes

Mark, I have moved from churches like that, but it's mostly about people I've known. Where I'm at the minister really worked hard to build up the diverse group he works with. He's up in years now and his replacement does well. The church over all tries to train men and women to be actively involved. But as Denise put it, I was "limiting [it] to known instances," and it's "person specific" scenarios I've encountered over the years. Very Disappointing, but those individuals will get theirs if they don't repent, that's for sure. Anyway, getting ready to ride out hurricane Matthew. Hopefully it won't be so rough on us if it does strike full force.

DAL

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 7:18 PM

Great idea.  My pastor uses Twitter and Facebook but i do not.  I know his job is difficult...he has to patiently work with folks like me and field some silly emails graciously occasionally AND he makes time to meet for coffee to boot (especially if my coffee one night kicked in late and I sent one too many emails....oops).

God bless all our Pastors as they study, prepare, and share - and sigh/smile/roll their eyes/and pray quietly too.  May they have laughter, joy and quiet rest all in abundance as they serve God and those who would follow Jesus under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Amen

Posts 166
Dennis Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 7:41 PM

Yes

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