What happens to our library if faithlife goes under?

Page 1 of 2 (38 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 37 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 35
Future Prodigy | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 17 2016 6:56 PM

I have wanted to make the dive and purchase a base package for a while but have always been tentative solely on the basis of what if the company goes under. Are all the books we purchase installed locally  on our computers hard drive  or is it  cloud service and synced remotely? 

It would be ideal if we possessed the file format in case they collapse (like when you purchase an ebook). 

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 7:57 PM

First off I'd recommend you read Bob's post from January which may calm some of your nerves.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/121491/795581.aspx#795581

and second

Future Prodigy:
Are all the books we purchase installed locally  on our computers hard drive  or is it  cloud service and synced remotely? 

Yes, unless you subscribe to Logos Cloud. In that case you'd simply be renting books. Otherwise, the books you own will be stored locally and permanently on your drive.

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 2801
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 8:41 PM

Please also upvote this uservoice request: https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-7/suggestions/10936203-installable-software-library-and-license-backup

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Seminary Student (VIU).
Christian Debate Forum --- Auferstanden! Blog

Posts 109
William M. Harper | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:06 PM

James Taylor:
the books you own will be stored locally and permanently on your drive.



What is the folder name? All I can find is the Logos log file.

Posts 1812
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:17 PM

William M. Harper:
What is the folder name?

Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

where: "UserName" is whatever your user name is on that computer

and: "RandomString" is a 8.3 string that Logos picks whenever it installs.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 109
William M. Harper | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 9:29 PM

Ken McGuire:

William M. Harper:
What is the folder name?

Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

where: "UserName" is whatever your user name is on that computer

and: "RandomString" is a 8.3 string that Logos picks whenever it installs.



Ok. Thank you, Ken.

Posts 10821
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 3:53 AM

Ken McGuire:
Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

For any Mac user who stumbles on this thread, the path is

/Users/yourusername/Library/Application Support/Logos4/Data/ai630slj.1g0/ResourceManager/Resources

ai630slj.1g0 = some random title

On a newer installation, Logos4 may have a slightly different name.

Note that the Library folder is hidden by default; hold down the Option key when you click the Go menu to view it

Posts 5309
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2016 6:06 AM

Future Prodigy:

I have wanted to make the dive and purchase a base package for a while but have always been tentative solely on the basis of what if the company goes under. Are all the books we purchase installed locally  on our computers hard drive  or is it  cloud service and synced remotely? 

It would be ideal if we possessed the file format in case they collapse (like when you purchase an ebook). 

You won't need the books in the new creation - "then you will know as you are fully known".

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 35
Future Prodigy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 11:27 AM

So just to confirm

1) If the company goes under we can still have access to the files? By making a backup of the database that is stored locally? 

2) if we upgrade to a new computer and they've gone under how would we reinstall the software? On the new pc

3) assuming we can't reinstall the software because the company is no longer around can we at least  open the books we've purchased in another reader? Obviously they won't be hyperlinked and have all the functionality but would there be any way to at least read them? 

I am very skeptical of being  locked to one program when spending this much. Which is why I like the ebook format

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 12:24 PM

Future, you're making this more complicated than you need to.  I'm smiling.

1. Imagine you cut the cord with Faithlife. How long will your Logos last? Only as long as your computer system update (Windows, Mac) doesn't blow it up. So far, that means 4-5 years or so. If you want to use a backup beyond that, you have to detach from any system updates. Which means stay off the internet.  tI's easy to demonstrate with earlier Logos versions.

2. Your bigger issue is Faithlife staying in business, but doing something you really don't like. Something theological. Or maybe subscription only for new features. Or demanding a major new PC to continue use. What then? See #1.

3. The final issue is your own desire to acquire. Apparently quite a few (me) have purchased well beyond what common sense would suggest. But once you do, you're pretty much stuck.  That would be risk #2 above.

Best bet: do the minimum you NEED.

Answering you queries:

1. Your Logos is on your computer. You can back it up; there's instructions. As long as your system doesn't do anything to screw up Logos.

2. See #1 answer; re-install if the system will accept. Else tough cookies.

3. Logos books can only be opened with Logos and the user license file. You can copy out of Logos to a doc, but a major, major pain.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3992
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 12:31 PM

Future Prodigy:

1) If the company goes under we can still have access to the files? By making a backup of the database that is stored locally? 

Yes.

Future Prodigy:

2) if we upgrade to a new computer and they've gone under how would we reinstall the software? On the new pc

You'd have to have downloaded the installer, which you'd run on your new computer (to install the application), then restored the data that you previously backed up.

The real issue here is that your unsupported version of Logos eventually won't be compatible with some newer version of Windows/macOS, and it eventually just won't run at all on a newer PC.

In that scenario, you'll have to keep your old PC around, and stop upgrading its OS, so Logos doesn't stop working.

Future Prodigy:

3) assuming we can't reinstall the software because the company is no longer around can we at least  open the books we've purchased in another reader? Obviously they won't be hyperlinked and have all the functionality but would there be any way to at least read them? 

No, and no. The books are stored in a proprietary format, and I don't believe their native format can be read by any other application. The best you could do is tediously export a book into some other format, but that would only be possible within Logos. Once Logos stops working, you effectively lose access to your library.

Future Prodigy:

I am very skeptical of being  locked to one program when spending this much. Which is why I like the ebook format

Just because a book is in a digital format, it doesn't imply it's unlocked.

Is there cheaper bible study software, where the books aren't locked? Yes. But it will be missing the majority of tools and features that Logos offers.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 2795
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 1:54 PM

Maybe it is time that the user base [us] requires that Faithlife provide the source code to a resource reader to some third party to hold in the event that Faithlife folds or is bought out for its customer base. 

There would have to be some legally binding contract between the user base and Faithlilfe that if it ever goes out of business that the code to the reader would be released to the public domain.

Posts 35
Future Prodigy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:42 PM

"Just because a book is in a digital format, it doesn't imply it's unlocked.

Is there cheaper bible study software, where the books aren't locked? Yes. But it will be missing the majority of tools and features that Logos offers." 

Which software would that be? I want to compare it. I don't need all the functionality of logos to be honest but I do need guaranteed unlocked access to my purchase in the future

Posts 3053
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:43 PM

Based on what has happened when other companies have folded, the best guess is, you'd lose everything.  One other option would be, if you are pretty good at computer stuff, you might keep it working locally for a few months.  Try disconnecting from the web and running Logos for a week or so.  See how that goes. You can make it work, but it will be a very different platform.  Eventually, should another company not pick up the pieces, you'd be out of luck.

Much of what I see posted here in the responses seems to be wishful thinking.

As an aside, I really don't think FL would "go under." It generates too much cash flow. I tend to agree with Bob that another company would pick up the rights and move forward, albeit with a very different mindset and worldview. In the case of an economy bad enough that FL fails and no one can or will redeem it, I suspect getting your software to function will be the least of your worries.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:46 PM

David Ames:

Maybe it is time that the user base [us] requires that Faithlife provide the source code to a resource reader to some third party to hold in the event that Faithlife folds or is bought out for its customer base. 

There would have to be some legally binding contract between the user base and Faithlilfe that if it ever goes out of business that the code to the reader would be released to the public domain.

Great idea, although Bob has stated that he believes if something ever happened causing FL to disappear it would be picked up by another company.... So your FL library would end up being mergers into a Wordsearch or Olivetree or Accordance or NEW BIBLE SOFTWARE X..... Now I can not say it is super likely a smaller player like Accordance would be able to but one like Olivetree with one of the big 5 publishers would likely love to get ahold of it since it is owner by the HaperCollins group. But this is all speculation and we have been told again and again FL is in good shape.. that said they claimed the titanic was unsinkable and even after the iceberg hit i believe most of the crew thought there was no reason to panic.

-Dan

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:50 PM

Doc B:

In the case of an economy bad enough that FL fails and no one can or will redeem it, I suspect getting your software to function will be the least of your worries.

Bingo  

Posts 10821
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 2:54 PM

Future Prodigy:
I do need guaranteed unlocked access to my purchase in the future

No matter what Bible software you choose, such a guarantee would probably not be worth the paper it was written on.

Posts 11
F. Kelly Dougherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 19 2016 7:32 PM

Just a quick note: I'm Roman Catholic and so my resources are under ".../Verbum/..." rather than ".../Logos/...".

And I agree that my wish to have "guaranteed" books is directly contrary to Verbum's wish to have "protected intellectual property."  Years ago I standardized on the *.lit format because, hey, it was a Microsoft standard.  M$ dropped support for *.lit a few years back.  Amazon's Kindle ebooks are another possible nightmare-to-come.

But if Verbum simply published everything in, say, *.epub, they would definitely be leading me into temptation.  I would be assured that their bankruptcy would still leave me with usable ebooks but it would be oh-so-easy for me to find reasons I should "share" with my friends.

The only practical solution I see would be something like all the books being saved to a standard open format (like *.epub) and given to a reputable trustee (a big bank?) to distribute if Verbum went out of business.  But the legal contract would be very tricky.  Should they distribute if Verbum requires subscriptions?  How about if it requires $1,000/year subscriptions?  What if there is a successor company but they're offline 50% of the time?  Or 5% of the time?  etc. etc.   

Posts 2883
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2016 7:04 AM

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now.  I have never lost a book in all that time.  Can't say that about my paper library.  If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again.  Books I bought 20 years ago are just as good - no better - than when I bought them.  (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.)  Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2016 7:11 AM

Michael Childs:

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now.  I have never lost a book in all that time.  Can't say that about my paper library.  If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again.  Books I bought 20 years ago as just as good - no better - than when I bought them.  (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.)  Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

Yes I agree with this completely.

Page 1 of 2 (38 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS