RC-2 going the wrong direction with layout switching

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:23 PM | Locked

Attached is the log file showing how switching from a 7 pane, 44 panel layout to a 7 pane 50 panel went under RC-2.

Unfortunately this switchover took 8 minutes and 45 second to accomplish. There was absolutely no indication anything was happening for the first 5 minutes and 5 seconds. Look in the log file at about 22:10:00, that's when I clicked on the layout I wanted to switch to. There are errors in the log file, but even without these switching to this layout is unacceptably slow. What in the world takes so long to accomplish?

I will time going back to the 7 pane, 44 panel layout and post the results of that shortly.

6064.Logos4.zip

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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George Allakhverdyan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:32 PM | Locked

Thanks I have submitted your logs to development.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:40 PM | Locked

Switched as indicated above. Time required: 5 min, 22 seconds. This si the same time I noted under RC-1 for switching between the same two layouts.

There are a few errors noted in the log file. Switch began about 22:26:30. Ended about 22:31:52.

Question: why are all my collections rebuilt when I switch layouts? That seems to be taking a sizable amount of time. Changing layouts doesn't affect collections. Why are they being rebuilt?

All in all this is a poor experience. I don't switch layouts often, but waiting 5  to almost 9 minutes to accomplish this seems crazy.

5224.Logos4 (2).zip

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:43 PM | Locked

Collections are rebuilt constantly when running the app. I've often suggested they should be cached.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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George Allakhverdyan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 7:47 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

Switched as indicated above. Time required: 5 min, 22 seconds. This si the same time I noted under RC-1 for switching between the same two layouts.

There are a few errors noted in the log file. Switch began about 22:26:30. Ended about 22:31:52.

Question: why are all my collections rebuilt when I switch layouts? That seems to be taking a sizable amount of time. Changing layouts doesn't affect collections. Why are they being rebuilt?

All in all this is a poor experience. I don't switch layouts often, but waiting 5  to almost 9 minutes to accomplish this seems crazy.

5224.Logos4 (2).zip

Good question - will get back to you soon.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 9:19 PM | Locked

Mark Barnes:
Collections are rebuilt constantly when running the app. I've often suggested they should be cached.

Agreed. The same thing happens on start-up. Why not cache the collections in a database file on the hard drive? I'd think that there would be a way for Logos to set a flag somewhere to indicate if new metadata or a new resource had been downloaded since the last running of Logos so it might know to recheck the collections for dynamic updates. Otherwise leave them alone and save a bunch of time on start-up and throughout the progarm.

Pretty please?

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:12 AM | Locked

I second this....we need to minimize redundant work inside Logos 4....

Robert Pavich

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:37 AM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

Agreed. The same thing happens on start-up. Why not cache the collections in a database file on the hard drive? I'd think that there would be a way for Logos to set a flag somewhere to indicate if new metadata or a new resource had been downloaded since the last running of Logos so it might know to recheck the collections for dynamic updates. Otherwise leave them alone and save a bunch of time on start-up and throughout the progarm.

Pretty please?

Yes Sound like this could be a significant optimization.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 11:46 AM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:
Why not cache the collections in a database file on the hard drive?

I agree. Yes

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Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:47 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:
Why not cache the collections in a database file on the hard drive?

I don't want to sound smug... "but",  Tongue Tied

Wouldn't this have been an obvious thing to build-in from the start? And not just for the collections. I could understand the need to exclude items of a volatile nature (-things assumed to change often) but “infrequent” items… hum!

I must be missing something the developers had already identified as problematic in the framework… right? Confused

Nevertheless... I saw the video Mark B put together with the 4.0b changes.... Looking good Mista' Ka' ter.  <-- That will put a date label on ya

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:28 PM | Locked

It's my view that this hasn't been done because:

  • Some of us are using dynamic collections far more than Logos anticipated.
  • The new parallel resource set uses collections very heavily, and wasn't part of the design when they originally conceived it.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:59 PM | Locked

Mark Barnes:
I've often suggested they should be cached.

 Definitely a great idea Mark  YesYesIdea. I am all for it as I have plenty of collections and alsways looking to find ways to group similar items together. I hadn't looked at the log files for a long time so I hadn't even thought of that as an issue. Hmmm, need to pay closer attention to that.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

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Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:30 PM | Locked

Mark Barnes:

It's my view that this hasn't been done because:

  • Some of us are using dynamic collections far more than Logos anticipated.
  • The new parallel resource set uses collections very heavily, and wasn't part of the design when they originally conceived it.

See.. I had totally forgot about the dynamic collections or the new feature functionally in relationship to a cache... still it would seem feasable.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:39 PM | Locked

Anthony Hamlin:
I had totally forgot about the dynamic collections or the new feature functionally in relationship to a cache

That dynamism only matters when there is a chance that a collection needs to be updated. Certainly not between switching layouts. Perhaps if new metadata or new or updated resources are downloaded a collection or two might change. To take care of that possibility, all Logos would seem to need to do is set a flag to indicate if this has happened, then Logos can check the flag and determine if collections need to be rebuilt.

Another approach is to let us control when collections are rebuilt.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 3:53 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

Anthony Hamlin:
I had totally forgot about the dynamic collections or the new feature functionally in relationship to a cache

That dynamism only matters when there is a chance that a collection needs to be updated. Certainly not between switching layouts. Perhaps if new metadata or new or updated resources are downloaded a collection or two might change. To take care of that possibility, all Logos would seem to need to do is set a flag to indicate if this has happened, then Logos can check the flag and determine if collections need to be rebuilt.

Another approach is to let us control when collections are rebuilt.

I see... I would prefer the autonomy

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 4:24 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:
Another approach is to let us control when collections are rebuilt.

I would rather my collections rebuild when the formula I created calls for changes.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 4:47 PM | Locked

Mark A. Smith:

To take care of that possibility, all Logos would seem to need to do is set a flag to indicate if this has happened, then Logos can check the flag and determine if collections need to be rebuilt.

Another approach is to let us control when collections are rebuilt.

As another comment on Logos' designStick out tongue I would venture that much of this is due to the initial guidance to develop the features and not worry about efficiency/optimisation. Many errors/inefficiencies are due to the asynchronous threading of tasks such as rebuilding collections which can then occur at "inappropriate" times. Setting a flag or removing an event trigger may resolve the situation but manual control should be avoided because reliability would become a bigger issue.

Dave
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Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:10 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

...because reliability would become a bigger issue.

You do mean "user" reliability, right?

 

What about a flag that would do a force update/check for need "on exit" thereby limiting the user reliability-liability? You are already required to restart for several scenarios already.

Hmm

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:22 PM | Locked

Anthony Hamlin:
You do mean "user" reliability, right?

= human fallibilitySmile  = entering a command like Sync Now.

Setting flags is slightly different because the option will have a default action.

Dave
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Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 7:30 AM | Locked

Dave Hooton:
I would venture that much of this is due to the initial guidance to develop the features and not worry about efficiency/optimisation.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  This type of issue is why I advocated for the "Focus on code/performance optimization" suggestion on the uservoice list.

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