Reading and studying within Logos

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This post has 20 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 221
James Thompson | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:19 AM

How many of you actually read a book e.g. a commentary like WBC or NAC from cover to cover in Logos? I’m trying to gauge my use of Logos against how others may be using the software. For instance, I find myself more likely to read an actual book from cover to cover and enjoy doing so but within Logos I’m more likely to only read just the passage I’m interested in or studying for a particular sermon or presentation. It’s difficult for me to sit down and read an entire electronic book. Perhaps it’s my screen width, font size, etc., that wearies my eyes or the lack of a visual clue of how much I’ve read and how much I have to go but somehow reading a digital book doesn’t “translate” for me as well as reading an actual book. All of this has a bearing on which medium I choose when purchasing a commentary set. In many cases it’s a no-brainer – the digital price almost always beats the hard copy price but do I really benefit if I have the entire NIVAC and not read it all.

There’s no doubt that digital is here to stay and maybe I’m caught up in one of those “generational things” – I love the feel of a book in my hand, a bible to the side, a cup of coffee and a couple of highlighters. Anyway, I’d like to hear how others approach this and what works best for you. I “heard” how many of you in this forum study entirely from Logos. What are your tips, suggestions, comments….

Posts 2759
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:41 AM

 I would only read the sections that I was studying..like you... for me they are mostly too technical to read cover to cover.

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 130
Robert J Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:25 AM

That would be true of commentaries in general and other reference works such as Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias. However, I do read cover to cover works using the Reading Plans. I am currently reading through the Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer and Kuyper's The Work of the Holy Spirit to mention only two of several reading plans active now. Why buy these book if I am not going to read them?

Posts 159
ELA | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:35 AM

It's wonderful to have all the bibles, the dictionaries and commentaries and referenceworks linked. It makes bible study so much easier and more effective.

I don't mind reading a digital book - but if it doesn't have a lot of references it doesn't have to be in LOGOS. Sometimes you can find a free (or very cheep) PDF file - and if it's locked for comments, you can open it in Adobe Digital Edition which allows you to take notes. And it is also searchable.
I think it's just a matter of getting used to reading a whole digital book through.

If it's a book that you don't intend to read more than once I find it better to buy the paper edition. Then you can give it away or lend it to someone else afterwards - which actually is better stewardship. Besides you may often find the paperversions to be much cheaper than the digital editions.

Like you I really enjoy reading a paper version - no computernoise, no dependency on electricity, a deep armchair and a cup of coffee and the wonderful feeling of a book in your hands. Besides I am more concentrated and disciplined in my reading because I don't have the temptation to look up a piece of information or name in some dictionary.

Posts 2889
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:38 AM

I would seldom read any commentary cover to cover - whether paper or logos format.  (There are a few exceptions, but not many.)  I don't think that is what they are designed for.  For me the beauty of Logos is having so many resources available to use when needed and being able to quickly access the proper resource when needed.  That saves tons of time and money.

I seem to remember hearing a seminary prof (at Asbury) mentioning that he read Kittel from cover to cover, but I sure wouldn't.  I just want it available when I need it.  I want to be able to use it to understand the text.

I am far more interested in reference material for Logos - language tools, commentaries, Bible dictiontionaries, etc - than books I intend to read cover to cover.  I had much rather have reference material in Logos format because they are so much more useful that way.

Generally, any book I intend to read cover to cover, I would just rather have in book (paper) format.

Also, I want historical material in Logos format so that it is searchable - Church Fathers, Wesley, Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon, etc.  How else could you pull up everything Wesley said about prayer, or check to see if a quote was used in context?

I have no interest in getting the latest popular Christian writer in Logos format.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 675
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:53 AM

I find it quite difficult to read long passages on a computer. I've tried and have read some shorter works in Logos, but not much. When I read a book, I have a three dimensional sense of it. I can quickly scan the table of contents and chapter organization. As I read I have a sense of where I am such that I will often remember the book visually, meaning I can remember it by picturing its cover and size. I can often remember the part of a page that contained a significant point. 

Reading electronic versions doesn't have the same feel. Though if I take my laptop and sit in an easy chair I find it more possible than sitting at my desk.

I would be interested in finding out if this has any correlation with age. When I managed a software team of people in their 30's I found reading a lot of material on the computer was far more natural for them than for me. That was 10 years ago and I'm now in my '60s.

James, I don't know much about the reading plan you mentioned. It might help me. Where should I go to get some ideas how to set it up?

Have a great day,
jmac

Posts 493
Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 7:57 AM

James Thompson:
How many of you actually read a book e.g. a commentary like WBC or NAC from cover to cover in Logos?

i've read...

Longenecker's Galatians, WBC

O'Brien's Colossians/Philemon, WBC

Peter Davids' James NIGTC

and most of Moo's Pillar James commentary

... in Logos format. I made the text larger than normal. I buy all my reference resources (commentaries, dictionaries, texts, lexicons) in Logos because usually one doesn't read these type books from cover to cover.

Posts 2889
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 8:07 AM

"I am currently reading through the Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer and Kuyper's The Work of the Holy Spirit to mention only two of several reading plans active now. Why buy these book if I am not going to read them?"

Well, most of my 2,000 Logos resources I bought because they were part of the package deal.  I bought them in order to get the commentaries or dictionaries that were also part of the package.  At least 25% of my resources will never be used, but the packages they came in were bargains.  (Shame I can't give those 25% to someone who would use them.)

I would buy the Works of Francis Schaeffer in order to be able to search it, and to cut and paste quotes into sermons, papers etc.  I would rather read it in book form.

This may be an age / generational thing, as another has noted.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2841
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 8:23 AM

Before going digital, I used to get a subscription to the NAC. When it first started to be released in the early 90s you would get one every few months. I would read the intro stuff to each new book when it came. Now the word read might be a misnomer. I would really scan and sometimes skip whole sections. But I don't think I have EVER read a commentary from cover to cover except for the ones assigned in seminary when I took elective exegetical classes in Romans, Jeremiah, Johannine Literature and the Gospels. If they were not assigned i wouldn't have done it then. But when I have preached through books I have effectually read through the commentary. So I guess I have read through a few that way.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 8:29 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
But when I have preached through books I have effectually read through the commentary. So I guess I have read through a few that way.
When you put it that way I've read through several,  But aside from that I never/seldom just read commentaries. 

On the other hand my reading plans are getting out of control.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 221
James Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:14 PM

JimMcDaniel:

James, I don't know much about the reading plan you mentioned. It might help me. Where should I go to get some ideas how to set it up?

Jim,

I don't really have a "reading plan" per se. I just read whatever book or commentary that relates to the study I'm doing at that time. Judging from your comments, our styles are about the same. If I'm teaching Romans for instance I will read or reread a good commentary and other related material. More and more of that material is now in digital format and of that I know I'm not going to "read" all of a given source. It is more likely I would if I had the hardcopy though. It seems, like many who have responded, I am using my digital resources more like a reference system -- being able to put my hands on an immediate passage, doing the applicable study and moving on.

The problem with that, if there is a problem, is that I don't have the complete feel of a series. For instance, I've read the College Press NT and the Tyndale series in paper and have a pretty good sense of the complete series. I've read protions of several books within the WBC but don't have an overall sense of the set though I appreciate its depth and analysis.

Maybe it's just me and I'm transitioning... My son has a Kindle. Except for the books he has to purchase, he's in a Ph.D. program, everything is on his Kindle. I have three walls of books in my library and my computer. My books are like comfort food...   Smile

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 12:57 PM

I listened to an interesting discussion on a BBC Radio programme this afternoon which was discussing what might happen to printed books, if e-books become more widely used.

In the discussion Professor of Publishing at University College London, Ian Stevenson, noted that reading for information (ergotive reading) was as easily done on a screen as with the printed page, but that so-called deep reading, reading for pleasure or imaginative reading, is more easily done from the printed page. For reasons that are not really understood, "the screen seems to act as a barrier but the printed page draws you in."

If you are interested the clip can be found at the following link http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00r3yx6/You_and_Yours_11_03_2010/

It is about 30 minutes into the programme. It only lasts a few minutes.

It certainly gives food for thought.

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

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Posts 601
Pam Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 1:58 PM

I read France's NICNT Matthew cover-to-cover for a class, but actually started with the physical book before NICNT came out in Logos. I'm also almost finished with France's NIGTC Mark which I'm using for teaching a bible study on Mark. Other than that, I'll read a one-volume commentary cover-to-cover along with my daily reading through the bible. Currently I'm using the IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament. When I start teaching Matthew I intend also to read WBC, NIGNT & Anchor cover-to-cover - so far I'm working my way through the introductions.

Posts 1210
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 5:28 PM

Most of my use of resources in Logos is driven by what pops up in a search & attracts my attention.  However, I've found this to be a problem in some resources (like commentaries) that may point to a certain place in the commentary based on a verse hit, but if you scroll back earlier they give an executive summary or overview that is equally valuable...but you'd miss it if you just followed the link.

I am well accustomed to print media, so have an automatic affinity to it...and it is highly portable/sharable.

  It wasn't until I mated the Reading Plans and the Highlighting Tools that electronic reading "clicked" for me...I tend to skim without comprehension/retention if I'm not careful.  Forcing myself to highlight key points helps minimize day-dreaming.  I have had some problems with eyestrain, but that's probably just from spending waaaay too much time on computers each day.

  I'm hopeful that a tablet PC will get released soon that is powerful enough to run the full Logos software, cheap enough to not derail my book addiction purchases, and light enough to be something I read from in an easy chair like I do printed books.  Are you listening, HP???

Posts 26
Daniel B. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:55 PM

Ward Walker:
 I'm hopeful that a tablet PC will get released soon that is powerful enough to run the full Logos software, cheap enough to not derail my book addiction purchases, and light enough to be something I read from in an easy chair like I do printed books.  Are you listening, HP???

Come over to the Mac side... we have cookies. And a soon-to-be released iPad. Cool

 

"A God without wrath brought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross" Helmut Richard Niebuhr: The Kingdom of God in America (speaking facetiously)

 

Posts 1700
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 8:44 PM

Interesting q. The way I use Logos is pretty much the way I used to use paper.

Except for short books (e.g. Jude), I doubt I've ever read a commentary through the way you read a novel. It takes me time to study a book at that level, and I'm doing exactly the same now with WBC that I would have done with paper -- bit at a time, gradually getting through the whole book over time.

Clearly Logos is better than paper for reference material (dictionaries etc) -- searchable.

Like you, I did not expect to read a book through in Logos, but I have started doing that in version 4. Things like Ben Witherington's The Jesus Quest. I didn't expect to use Logos this way, but I found it surprisingly good. Highlighers. Always with me. Opens where I left off. Contents pane = context (where I'm up to in the big picture.) Information window gives me the meaning of words I would not bother looking up in a paper book. Copy'n'paste key sections/references to MS Word or to notes.

FWIW, I'm use a 17" laptop, and a 'reading' layout consisting of highlighters (left), information window (right), with the book occupying the rest of the screen in the middle. Contrast and brightness adjusted to prevent sore eyes.

So, if it's available in Logos, I'm not likely to buy it on paper.

(As an aside, I'm just starting to realize that Logos is many things to many people. For me, it's primarily a research tool. For others, it's sermon preparation. For others, it's a way to arrange recent journals. For some it's original language based study. And there's probably some who just use the homepage and guides. Many things to many people.)

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 1:14 PM

JimMcDaniel:
I would be interested in finding out if this has any correlation with age. When I managed a software team of people in their 30's I found reading a lot of material on the computer was far more natural for them than for me. That was 10 years ago and I'm now in my '60s.

Interesting, I am 10 years older than you, and I prefer reading from a computer screen to reading paper. I find it is easier to take notes and leave highlights that I will actually see again.

I only think I have read 2 commentaries cover-to-cover systematically, and both were class assignments. I love the one (Moo on Romans) and detested the other (I will leave it unnamed as I have seen others comment about how valuable they found it).

I have several (read too many) reading plans active at this time and plan to add others as these are finished. I like the new Logos feature to adjust the reading plan when I get behind—that way I don't see the evidence of my sin of procrastination staring me in the face every time I open the Home Page. Geeked

Posts 19262
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 2:03 PM

I've never read any book cover to cover in Logos yet, though I might be inclined to for non-reference works. The only commentaries I've ever read through cover to cover in print form were Bruce Waltke's Genesis and Eugene Peterson's First and Second Samuel (WBC). Both of them more readable than most commentaries. The latter was assigned for a class I took with Peterson. The former has a great introduction which includes probably the best short treatment of the poetics of biblical narrative around.

Posts 456
Roger Feenstra | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 9:24 PM

I have never read an entire book from my computer.  I have read several books, cover to cover, from my iPod touch.  I just order the iPad and I am certain that I will read numerous books from that platform.  I enjoy reading at night when I go to bed, so it's difficult to do that with my laptop (although I have fallen asleep with it resting on my chest several times). It's a quandary for me.  I like an actual book, but I like the ease of reading electronically too.  In the end, however, I probably see myself reading less and less of paper books and more and more electronic. 

Elder/Pastor, Hope Now Bible Church, Fresno CA

Posts 675
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 8:51 AM

Alan Macgregor:
, Ian Stevenson, noted that reading for information (ergotive reading) was as easily done on a screen as with the printed page, but that so-called deep reading, reading for pleasure or imaginative reading,

Very interesting. That's exactly my experience. I find that my mind is more free (sometime too free) to connect with other things I know or suddenly think of applications or trains of thought when I'm sitting back with a book in my hand. When I'm at my desk reading or even using the laptop in an easy chair, it's not the same. Perhaps the computer has too many other attractions. I wonder if the physical connection with a solid object (the book) also has something to do with it for some of us.

Have a great day,
jmac

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