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Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2016 10:45 AM

There is a secret way to look up a word as defined by any purchased dictionaries and encyclopedias instantly all while reading your favorite translation.

When you click on a word and select "Look up", a pop-up appears which says that Logos is looking up the word. At the bottom of the pop-up box is a "Bible Word Study" link to click.

Now here is the interesting thing...

1. The expected behavior is if you click the "Bible Word Study" link after the "Looking up [selected word]" finishes its look up (see first image in the first group of images), you get a result shown in the first group of images that pulls up Greek tools such as the BDAG, TDNT, etc.

but..

2. If you click the "Bible Word Study" link before the "Looking up [selected word]" finishes its look up (see first image in the second group of images), you get a result shown in the second group of images that pulls up dictionary and encyclopedia resources!!

Is this intended behavior or a bug? If not intended, it needs to be!

See, sometimes when you look something up (person, place, thing) you don't want to research the Greek but rather want to research more of the background in your dictionaries and encyclopedia. If you look up Nazereth for example, you may want to see corresponding links to my AYBD, ISBE, etc., to learn about the place. So this hidden (expected / unexpected) behavior is great! Then if you want to perform a Greek analysis, you can just let the "Looking up..." complete and can do my Greek word study.

But can someone from Logos confirm this is expected or not and confirm that it will remain? I would hate to start using it only to be incredibly disappointed down the road... But this is EXACTLY the feature many have been requesting for the past few years, although it's a little hidden for my tastes. Maybe a second link next to the "Bible Word Study" which says "Dictionary Study" so people can see the different choices.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 6:02 AM

In all likelihood, this is an issue of a slow response from the FL servers (perhaps due to your internet connection, slowness on FL or a combo of both). 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 6:34 AM

alabama24:
In all likelihood, this is an issue of a slow response from the FL servers (perhaps due to your internet connection, slowness on FL or a combo of both). 

Probably true - and thus unintended - but I can reproduce this as well (on a fast Internet connection) and find it really usefulSmile

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 6:48 AM

Good! Smile

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 7:20 AM

I use this "feature" all the time on Android. I don't know any other way to do an English word study on mobile.

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 7:33 AM

Justin Gatlin:

I use this "feature" all the time on Android. I don't know any other way to do an English word study on mobile.

You could 1) do the word study from a non-interlinear resource, 2) put the phone in Airplane mode or 3) type in the word to search for - all of which involve slightly more faff than this "trick", but it's doable.

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 8:00 AM

James McAdams:

Justin Gatlin:

I use this "feature" all the time on Android. I don't know any other way to do an English word study on mobile.

You could 1) do the word study from a non-interlinear resource, 2) put the phone in Airplane mode or 3) type in the word to search for - all of which involve slightly more faff than this "trick", but it's doable.

Airplane mode is a neat idea, which I guess comes out to be the same as this one. The fact that we can only get to the English study by somehow making original language ones impossible is strange.

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 8:12 AM

Justin Gatlin:

Airplane mode is a neat idea, which I guess comes out to be the same as this one. The fact that we can only get to the English study by somehow making original language ones impossible is strange.

Just realised I'm talking nonsense - Airplane mode won't work because you need to be online to run the guide. Wasn't thinking. Sorry! The other two options would work.

Doing it from Airplane mode would just bring up the iOS dictionary entry (if applicable), I think.

Posts 138
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 10:10 AM

James McAdams:

You could 1) do the word study from a non-interlinear resource, 2) put the phone in Airplane mode or 3) type in the word to search for - all of which involve slightly more faff than this "trick", but it's doable.

1. I don't understand what you mean by a word-study from a non-interlinear resource. If I am in the AYBD (if you are considering that a non-interlinear resource) and do a word-study from a highlighted word, all that comes up is the built-in iOS dictionary (ex., oxford) which is useless compared to the other resources I own. If I am in the ESV (if you are considering that a non-interlinear resource) and do a word-study from that, we get exactly what I discussed in my first post.

2. As you pointed out, putting the phone in airplane does not replicate this as it also brings up the built-in iOS dictionary (ex., oxford) which is useless compared to the other resources I own.

3. A search is very cumbersome.To perform a search, from reading your bible or some resource, a) open the menu; then b) select the search icon; then c)type in whatever you want to search which requires you to remember how to spell it or have taken the time to "copy" it; then d) when you hit search you may get many undesired results which requires you to narrow it by resource in the drop-down. This is a very cumbersome process compared to simply highlighting a word and selecting "look up" imho.

I think these three are reasons why Faithlife should make this "secret" feature more permanent and pronounced.

Posts 138
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 10:33 AM

alabama24:

In all likelihood, this is an issue of a slow response from the FL servers (perhaps due to your internet connection, slowness on FL or a combo of both). 

Maybe it has something to do with prior to the look-up completing, it has not yet found the original language word (ex., Ναζωραῖος) so it just searches for the highlighted word (ex., Nazareth) which defaults to non-lexicon resources. This position is strengthened by the fact the word-study result title screen says "Nazareth" and not Ναζωραῖος. Then if you wait for look-up to complete, the original language word is found, and a word search on that is performed, hence the Ναζωραῖος in the title screen of the word-search result.

Maybe Faithlife could implement a feature that says "Orig. Lang. Lookup" and "Lookup" so the user can pick. In the "Orig. Lang. Lookup", it will work how it currently works. In the "Lookup" it will immediately perform a "Word Search" on the highlighted word(s), not in the original langage, and present the dictionary/encyclopedia results.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 11:27 AM

Matt Zimmerman:
I don't understand what you mean by a word-study from a non-interlinear resource.

A "word study" in the Logos context, ALWAYS means looking up an original language word which lies underneath the surface text of a bible. Only bibles with a "reverse interlinear" can do this, and you must own the reverse interlinear. 

**An interlinear takes the greek (or other OL) text and places english underneath in columns. This allows non (or developing) greek readers the ability to start to read along. The word order is driven by the greek. A "reverse interlinear" takes an english translation (i.e. the ESV or NIV) and places the GREEK below. The word order is driven by the english text. The screen shot below is what it looks like on desktop. NOTE: There isn't a mobile view comparable. 

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Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 12:47 PM

alabama24:

Matt Zimmerman:
I don't understand what you mean by a word-study from a non-interlinear resource.

A "word study" in the Logos context, ALWAYS means looking up an original language word which lies underneath the surface text of a bible. Only bibles with a "reverse interlinear" can do this, and you must own the reverse interlinear. 

**An interlinear takes the greek (or other OL) text and places english underneath in columns. This allows non (or developing) greek readers the ability to start to read along. The word order is driven by the greek. A "reverse interlinear" takes an english translation (i.e. the ESV or NIV) and places the GREEK below. The word order is driven by the english text. The screen shot below is what it looks like on desktop. NOTE: There isn't a mobile view comparable. 

I understand what it means on the desktop version, it's just that Justin was asking how else one can search for an [english non-greek] word on the mobile version of Logos. And James replied that one can perform a "word study from a non-interlinear resource".

I was confused as to what this meant on mobile and how it differs from either of the two ways list in the original post on this thread.

(The only reason I'm pointing this out is so a Faithlife rep doesn't misunderstand and think there are other ways to do this on mobile).
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 2:48 PM

Matt Zimmerman:
And James replied that one can perform a "word study from a non-interlinear resource".

When you press on a work in any resource which isn't a reverse interlinear bible, you can choose "look up." A "word study" button does appear briefly, but I think it is a UI glitch. 

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 2:53 PM

Matt, I was having a really off morning. You can do what's noted in the OP  y using the technique laid out there, or by typing the word in the input box on the word study page. Everything else I said was bogus. I don't know what I was thinking, and I'm really sorry for any confusion caused in my dazed state. Some of it I thought was possible from non-interlinear bibles (NET, etc) but it seems my memory was playing tricks on me. Some of it was me getting mixed up with iOS dictionary stuff.

In short, I won't post again before I've had my coffee.

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 4:24 PM

alabama24:

A "word study" in the Logos context, ALWAYS means looking up an original language word which lies underneath the surface text of a bible.

Are you sure? It is an option on the English word in the contextual menu on the desktop.

Posts 138
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 5:44 PM

James McAdams:

Matt, I was having a really off morning. You can do what's noted in the OP  y using the technique laid out there, or by typing the word in the input box on the word study page. Everything else I said was bogus. I don't know what I was thinking, and I'm really sorry for any confusion caused in my dazed state. Some of it I thought was possible from non-interlinear bibles (NET, etc) but it seems my memory was playing tricks on me. Some of it was me getting mixed up with iOS dictionary stuff.

In short, I won't post again before I've had my coffee.

No! You're totally fine! LoL! It's just that I've been dying for this ability in Logos for so long that I don't want to take the chance that a Faithlife coder eliminates it thinking it can be done another way. I understand the morning coffee though, hah. I can't function without it.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 5:47 PM

Justin Gatlin:
Are you sure? It is an option on the English word in the contextual menu on the desktop.

Your screenshot illustrates what I said! 

You "right clicked" on the surface text (the english word "transgression" in the KJV) and it opened up an original word study for the original language word underneath (i.e. "forming the basis of") the english word. 

If you wanted to stump me, however, you should have used a non RI bible resource. Doing so will pull up the greek & hebrew words translated into that english word. 

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 30 2016 6:45 PM

alabama24:

Justin Gatlin:
Are you sure? It is an option on the English word in the contextual menu on the desktop.

Your screenshot illustrates what I said! 

You "right clicked" on the surface text (the english word "transgression" in the KJV) and it opened up an original word study for the original language word underneath (i.e. "forming the basis of") the english word. 

If you wanted to stump me, however, you should have used a non RI bible resource. Doing so will pull up the greek & hebrew words translated into that english word. 

Sorry, misleading screenshot. The BWS is one from clicking "Bible Word Study" when Lemma is selected. When the surface text is selected, the word study gives all of the original language renderings of that word

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