I'm upset with the new Logos 7.3 about information

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This post has 108 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1759
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 25 2016 5:53 PM

Mark Bernard:
I mean why pay over what a book is worth just to have it on my computer?

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I should point out that when an adult, not compelled by force, purchases a product for a price, that is what it's worth.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Posts 10
Mark Bernard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 25 2016 9:27 PM

Robert M. Warren:

Mark Bernard:
I mean why pay over what a book is worth just to have it on my computer?

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I should point out that when an adult, not compelled by force, purchases a product for a price, that is what it's worth.

No, Its worth is in the total Market force of that product, not a subset of that total whole. Sure it would be more convenient for me to have the book from Logos so I can utilize the tags in it, and when you are talking 20-50 dollar singular purchases 10-40% (yes 40% in some cases) is not a huge difference , but when you add those percentage figures over a larger time period and higher product amounts that can be a substantial difference. Thankfully there are several alternatives for an ebook format I can take advantage of for many f the books I want so I will be taking advantage of those and take another look at Logos when they start to become more competitive on price point. 

Posts 3018
LogosEmployee
Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2017 3:37 PM

Mike McKnelly:

I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.

This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2017 4:28 PM

Here's my main suggestions for how to tweak 7.3's about panel:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/134525/874084.aspx#874084 

For the library colored icons, you could include the color of the library level (bronze, silver, gold, platinum, etc.) then put the entire library name next to it (Logos 6 Platinum, Logos 7 Platinum, etc.).

For the features that customers don't own yet, is this similar to "locked books" in Libronix but extends to features/datasets?

I didn't see the red X since I (thankfully) have a Logos 7 library, but looks like it's another feature not fully implemented yet that could have been slightly clearer and maybe should have been released a little later. :-)

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 19
Word Explorer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2017 6:24 PM

Philana R. Crouch:
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3

Where are my features ? Please fix my Features to be like Base Package Library:

Logos 7 Starter Feature Set shows stuff owned and 68 % off for Dynamic Sale Price

Posts 2842
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2017 7:35 PM

Priceless, Denise, simply priceless.  Made me laugh out loud - literally.

Denise:

Hapax ... normally I'd agree. But in this case, Phil proposes to attach a label to the pastor's suit, saying 'We DO make better suits than you bought.'  It'll be a big motivator.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2210
LogosEmployee

Word Explorer:

Philana R. Crouch:
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3

Where are my features ? Please fix my Features to be like Base Package Library:

Thanks for reporting this bug. We'll get it fixed up.

Posts 91
John W | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 9:38 AM

PetahChristian:

Is it really that important to see how many libraries we own?

Must we find fault with FL for how they choose to market their product?

With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. James 3 9:10 NKJV

I totally agree with not finding fault! FL has blessed me sooo much.

Posts 74
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 12:12 PM

Here's a dumb question. How do I find this "About" screen in the first place? Embarrassed

The red x doesn't bother me. It's a fairly conventional symbol to denote an absence. I don't internalize it as being a commentary about me as a person. Stick out tongue

Posts 29128
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 1:50 PM

It is under Help - the upper right question mark.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 1:59 PM

MJ. Smith:

It is under Help - the upper right question mark.

That's where it is in Windows. 

On the Mac, it's under the Logos menu on the menu bar:

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 5321
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 2:54 PM

Thank you for the improvements. Still a s why you need to call out a user has a pre-Logos 7 library when at the time you released Logos 7 it was emphasised purchasing a Logos 7 Library was not necessary. The left hand at Logos continues to fail to talk to the right hand and so coflicting messages are sent to customers. 

Philana R. Crouch:

Mike McKnelly:

Brady I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.

This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3

Posts 3707
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 3:27 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
purchasing a Logos 7 Library was not necessary

While it may not be necessary to purchase one, selling new libraries is one of the ways that FL pays the bills.

We'd probably agree that FL has the right to promote their products within their program. Given that, the About screen is the least obnoxious place to do it.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 10969
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 3:42 PM

Petah, Logos obviously has the right to sell trampolines along with HALOT, if they wish. Might be a bit messy for delivery, and customers might not appreciate it. But it is their right. Along with bronze non-standard prices.

Actually, we can all appreciate the new option promised by Phil not to display it (the About x's and o's, not the trampoline).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 354
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 6:54 PM

Mike,

Thanks for the post. I have another problem with the 7.3 info.

The information shown should be as accurate and truthful as possible.

In the third section, the most accurate information for me is to "You used to own Logos 7 Gold library but you don't any longer."

I purchased the Logos 7 Gold library in September 2016.

Now I can purchase the Logos 7 Gold library AGAIN for an extra $418.

Or am I upgrading from Gold to Gold?

Stephen Miller

Australia

Posts 5321
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 9:31 PM

Clearly you have not read what I said, because the issue I raised was the inconsistency of the message they are sending customers.  You were toob interested in imposing your view upon me about advertising  than taking the time to clearly read what I had said. 

Just to repeat, in case you missed what I said above, I was raising a concern about inconsistent messages being sent to customers.The advertising issue was secondarv.

Posts 3707
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 10:22 PM

It seems that a "consistent" message would require FL to stop suggesting that people need to upgrade, since customers don't necessarily need new books and/or features.

While that is noble and customer-centric, FL isn't in the business of doing what's best for the customer. A recurring problem is that customers are still (happily) using L4/5/6 and not upgrading (yet possibly still needing support), which does have an impact on the business.

While you could (also) say that revenue is secondary, anything that affects the bottom line (such as not getting people to upgrade), hurts us customers as well as the employees and business.

P.S. If FL did everything we insisted they do, they probably still wouldn't be in business. I doubt that many of us have the skill, knowledge, and experience to successfully manage their business, yet we tend to give them grief when we disagree with what they do, even when it comes to something so insignificant as a check mark or an x.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 1083
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2017 11:58 PM

I don't understand why Logos can't show that I actually don't have just a basic starter package, but i actually have Logos 7 Standard Platinum in stead of Logos 7 Library.

But they can add the Explore more libraries to remind me that you can get a even bigger library..

L4 Bible Study, L5 Reformed Bronze, & L5 Gold, L6 Platinum & Reformed Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum.
2015 rMBP 15" 2.2GHz 16GB 256GB SSD, running macOS Mojave   iPad Mini 4,   iPhone 6.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2017 1:01 AM

Lee:
I don't understand why Logos can't show that I actually don't have just a basic starter package, but i actually have Logos 7 Standard Platinum in stead of Logos 7 Library.

This used to be the case in L4-L6. It's likely that at least two factors caused it to be changed:

  1. A number of users have multiple libraries and were upset that the software didn't reflect that.
  2. A number of users had a higher base package in an old version of Logos, and were unhappy that it said they owned L6 Bronze, whereas in fact they also owned L5 Platinum.

There are various lengthy threads on both these topics.

Posts 5321
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2017 1:13 AM

Petah you are constantly complaining about the issues you see as important to you - long standing issues on the website that those of us who have been customers a lot longer than you don't make anywhere near the noise you do about those problems. You also regularly complain about issues with mobile Ed courses, but you then think you have the right to tell me to keep quite about issues that I see as important. You would not like it if every time you raised an issue about the website or mobile Ed, you were told if Logos did everything you insist they wouldn't be in business. So please start respecting we are all different and will all have issues that are of different significance to us. I will not drop this issue just because you tell me to lay off FL. And neither will I tell you to layoff FL because of your constant complaints about the website. 

PetahChristian:

It seems that a "consistent" message would require FL to stop suggesting that people need to upgrade, since customers don't necessarily need new books and/or features.

While that is noble and customer-centric, FL isn't in the business of doing what's best for the customer. A recurring problem is that customers are still (happily) using L4/5/6 and not upgrading (yet possibly still needing support), which does have an impact on the business.

While you could (also) say that revenue is secondary, anything that affects the bottom line (such as not getting people to upgrade), hurts us customers as well as the employees and business.

P.S. If FL did everything we insisted they do, they probably still wouldn't be in business. I doubt that many of us have the skill, knowledge, and experience to successfully manage their business, yet we tend to give them grief when we disagree with what they do, even when it comes to something so insignificant as a check mark or an x.

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