No NEW Journals - why not?

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This post has 735 Replies | 25 Followers

Posts 688
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 26 2019 1:57 AM

Good news - hopefully going forward we can also get more updates and additions

Shalom

Posts 688
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2019 3:30 AM

Any more progress on the purchase option of the journal bundles (i.e. 4.1)  announced some time ago?

Shalom

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 6:28 PM

Kevin A Lewis:

Any more progress on the purchase option of the journal bundles (i.e. 4.1)  announced some time ago?

Shalom

got emai: “We are about to begin processing Pre-Pub orders for Master Journal Bundle 4.1 (2,260+ vols.).

This product is scheduled to ship on 9/30/2019.*”

thank you Faithlife!

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 149
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 7:27 PM

So no announcement on 5.1's as these already are dated?

Posts 688
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 1:42 AM

I was thinking of asking the same question - but then thought I'd give them a chance to get these out the door first.

Thank you Faithlife!!!!

Shalom

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 4:47 AM

Theo:

So no announcement on 5.1's as these already are dated?

I wouldn't make sense to make 5.1 available to pre-order until the 4.1 orders have been processed. If they did, everyone's dynamic price would be wrong because they wouldn't yet own 4.1.

Posts 982
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 1:39 AM

I'm confused and upset about journals. I bought in on the promise of regular updates and sure it was a good deal but absolutely not if the only way to keep up to date is to pay for a subscription that includes all the back catalog anyway. Faithlife this is beyond shambolic!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 5:47 AM

John Goodman:

I'm confused and upset about journals. I bought in on the promise of regular updates and sure it was a good deal but absolutely not if the only way to keep up to date is to pay for a subscription that includes all the back catalog anyway. Faithlife this is beyond shambolic!

I think you're mixing apples and oranges in a shambolic way. He said regular updates, hopefully quarterly. And indeed my purchase (not subscription) arrives Sept 30. True no quarterly (my memory?). I don't remember an up to date promise ... he always qualified relative to the old Galaxy.

But even so, I'd hope most would view journals as the long-shot (along with pre-paid evangelical commentaries). Quite valuable tagged. But still a long-shot.


Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 9:27 AM

John Goodman:

I'm confused and upset about journals. I bought in on the promise of regular updates and sure it was a good deal but absolutely not if the only way to keep up to date is to pay for a subscription that includes all the back catalog anyway. Faithlife this is beyond shambolic!

You have “spoken” as a shambolic person! Only shambolics speak before thinking about what they will say before they say it 😂 Anyway, your shambolicism is dead wrong. Go back to the drawing board and think about what you just posted 😜

Posts 1826
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 11:31 AM

John Goodman:
I'm confused and upset about journals.

I'm sorry you're confused and upset.

John Goodman:
I bought in on the promise of regular updates and sure it was a good deal but absolutely not if the only way to keep up to date is to pay for a subscription that includes all the back catalog anyway.

We were hoping to do quarterly releases, but the necessary level of funding isn't there to support that yet. We'll likely be sticking with annual releases for now (both of Galaxie's Theological Journal Library and for our own journal bundles), but we're always considering ways to do more journals more quickly and may be able to get back to a faster release cycle in the future.

Since getting started with journals can be expensive for latecomers, we decided to offer Galaxie's own monthly and annual subscriptions in Logos. This isn't intended to be a solution for existing journal owners.

We're exploring a different kind of subscription commerce model, which would allow you to subscribe to own new releases in a series of content. For example, you could subscribe to a particular journal, collection of journals, or commentary series, and we'd automatically place a pre-order of the new releases for you and ship it to you without your needing to do anything. Of course, you'd still get a notification and be able to opt out of a given release or cancel your subscription entirely. We hope to pilot an experiment in Q1 of 2020 to see how much interest there is in this model, before we invest the time and effort it would take to build it into our commerce system.

John Goodman:
Faithlife this is beyond shambolic!

Do you still feel that way after the above explanation? What would you like to see us do differently?

  • We're shipping our 4.1 bundles soon.
  • We're posting our 5.0 bundles right after that and hope to get them into production and shipped sooner than this last round took.
  • We should be posting and shipping the 2019 updates to the Galaxie journals in November.
  • We're exploring a subscription model (automatic pre-orders for ownable licenses) for more easily staying current with the journals (and other products) you care about.
Posts 1923
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 7:32 PM

Question for Phil:

Even though I've already direct-purchased the past Galaxie bundles, I don't see the Galaxie Logos subscription cost as too much to ensure I stay current on the latest journals.

So should I:

1. Go ahead and signup for it?

2. Wait until Q1 of 2020 and signup for the "subscription ownership" service?

On that new service, I wish you could also offer a way to "scan" my Logos library and show me any collections that are "missing" books (especially commentary sets), and offer a "Complete My Collection" subscription price on those (similar to how iTunes once did "Compete My Album" if I owned individual songs from an album and pay a fee to complete the album). I know you offer something similar with Dynamic Pricing, but I need to find a way to at-a-glance have the Logos Store show me what collections I have that are missing books so I know what collections I want to top off and keep current (I take a guess at the moment, but I still don't always keep up with it).

On the Logos Journal Bundles, I wonder if instead of the version numbers (which have been a little confusing) if you set the journal bundles by year instead (so all of the 2019 journals in a "Master Journal Bundle 2019", etc). That might make it easier to understand what bundles offer what.

Nathan Parker

Posts 149
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 10:23 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

We were hoping to do quarterly releases, but the necessary level of funding isn't there to support that yet. We'll likely be sticking with annual releases for now (both of Galaxie's Theological Journal Library and for our own journal bundles), but we're always considering ways to do more journals more quickly and may be able to get back to a faster release cycle in the future.

Since getting started with journals can be expensive for latecomers, we decided to offer Galaxie's own monthly and annual subscriptions in Logos. This isn't intended to be a solution for existing journal owners.

We're exploring a different kind of subscription commerce model, which would allow you to subscribe to own new releases in a series of content. For example, you could subscribe to a particular journal, collection of journals, or commentary series, and we'd automatically place a pre-order of the new releases for you and ship it to you without your needing to do anything. Of course, you'd still get a notification and be able to opt out of a given release or cancel your subscription entirely. We hope to pilot an experiment in Q1 of 2020 to see how much interest there is in this model, before we invest the time and effort it would take to build it into our commerce system.

John Goodman:
Faithlife this is beyond shambolic!

Do you still feel that way after the above explanation? What would you like to see us do differently?

  • We're shipping our 4.1 bundles soon.
  • We're posting our 5.0 bundles right after that and hope to get them into production and shipped sooner than this last round took.
  • We should be posting and shipping the 2019 updates to the Galaxie journals in November.
  • We're exploring a subscription model (automatic pre-orders for ownable licenses) for more easily staying current with the journals (and other products) you care about.

Ok, so here is what I understood from the above. For existing owners, 4.1 comes out at the end of the month. 5.x will drop after that in October("ish,") and one can pre-pub it, and it will go thru as intended. If it receives enough incentive by the customer base, it will be made available in a much quicker fashion than 4.1 was.

The plan going forward due to an understandable lack of financial interest on FL's behalf due to customer lack of interest for quarterly releases (which would have been easier on one's wallet,) 6.+ and beyond will follow annually (perhaps b4 the annual fall conventions, so FL can market an updated journal bases each year) as pre-pub releases one can purchase and should go thru at a better pace than the 4.1 modules which were lost in limbo for an inordinate amount of time for reasons we can all put behind us as they are finally here.

If FL can now deliver these annually and in a reasonable fashion, perhaps the loyalty of the customer base can assuage past doubts. Both parties need to finally see a way forward beyond the present model which repeatedly fails on both ends. I pray we can all look to the day soon that doubts have faded and a feasible model is achieved whereby all can benefit. 

Galaxie for existing owners will drop annually in November as a pre-pub and can be purchased and will be released even faster as it has less tagging, etc.  

Is this correct and will everyone get on board or do we still have remaining issues holding people back and thus causing FL to once again return to the drawing board for another long lapse and try something else and everyone sits waiting idly?

Posts 982
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 3:44 PM

Phil,

Thanks the explanation is helpful, I would very much like an ownership subscription model.

I am really frustrated though. Logos has not been a useful tool for keeping up with journals, my investment in journals via logos has not lived up to my hopes which were based on your previously explained plans. Will these plans become a reality? It's painful waiting and its very difficult to understand from any of the product pages. It's also very difficult to understand from a 36 page forum thread. Shambolic is defined as 'disorganised, chaotic or mismanaged' in my dictionary. The strong impression is that this is a project that gets forgotten for long periods. If you are offended by that I'm sorry, its not my intention to offend but it is my intention to express frustration.

I love the product and am so often impressed with what you produce but you really have to think about how broken your communication process is. We are customers who care to the tune of thousands of dollars and Logos is a primary tool for doing our work.

It sounds promising but will the latest journals ever arrive in my logos library in a timely manner at a reasonable price? Please make it a reality! Thanks

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 3:58 PM

Theo:
If FL can now deliver these annually and in a reasonable fashion, perhaps the loyalty of the customer base can assuage past doubts.

Journals stopped being a priority for FL a long time ago.  FL does not have a financial interest in Journals. If that changes, that would be great.  But I stopped hoping.

There is nothing wrong with FL making such a business decision.  It frustrated me to be strung along for so long.  I am happy to receive whatever they sell.  But I no longer expect journals except for a update every blue moon of some journals.

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 24 2019 1:18 AM

Mark:
FL does not have a financial interest in Journals.

Faithlife has an huge interest in Journals (in principle), but they were too late to the game and are often left picking up the scraps.

The problem is something like this:

  1. The top-tier journals that everyone wants are often locked behind paywalls (such as Sage).
  2. Some of the second-tier journals have signed exclusive deals with other providers (such as Galaxie).
  3. What's left isn't sufficiently popular for Faithlife to get its money back.

Faithlife probably can't solve #1 at the moment, but it's trying to solve #2 and #3 by partnering with Galaxie to supply some second-tier journals with limited tagging to hit the sweet spot price-wise.

I suspect that solving #1 will require an adventurous top-tier journal to take a risk, and let Faithlife (and its customers) prove there's a strong appetite. I'm not holding my breath.

Posts 149
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 25 2019 12:07 AM

If one owns Galaxie, then what does one have to do to get its update later this fall? Subscribe? Or will it be updated via pre-pub as a new separate modular update each fall?

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 25 2019 6:32 AM

Theo:

If one owns Galaxie, then what does one have to do to get its update later this fall? Subscribe? Or will it be updated via pre-pub as a new separate modular update each fall?

For the 2019 update, you'll need to subscribe to this: https://www.logos.com/product/184429/galaxies-theological-journal-library-subscription, or buy this prepub: https://www.logos.com/product/154055/tjl-upgrade-bundle-41

For 2020, you'll need to keep subscribing, or buy another (as yet unannounced) prepub.

Posts 297
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 3:05 PM

Yahoo! The latest Master Journal Collection is downloaded!...now on to the next Master collection! Smile

Posts 8940
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 5:43 PM

Charlene:

Yahoo! The latest Master Journal Collection is downloaded!...now on to the next Master collection! Smile

Yes

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 149
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 7:25 PM

Mark Barnes:

Theo:

If one owns Galaxie, then what does one have to do to get its update later this fall? Subscribe? Or will it be updated via pre-pub as a new separate modular update each fall?

For the 2019 update, you'll need to subscribe to this: https://www.logos.com/product/184429/galaxies-theological-journal-library-subscription, or buy this prepub: https://www.logos.com/product/154055/tjl-upgrade-bundle-41

For 2020, you'll need to keep subscribing, or buy another (as yet unannounced) prepub.

Amazingly, I contacted the sales department to inquire. They have no clue either. Thanks for this advice. I'll wait for pre-pubs to go up or activity here to tell me what to do. FL's own sales team is clueless on journals! lol Definitely an area in need of improvement, but it is progressing--PTL!

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