Mac Vs. PC on Logos 7 - which is better?

Hey all,

I'm in the marker for a new computer. My number one use for the computer is Logos 7. Which computer do you think would run Logos 7 better - a Mac or a PC, assuming they both had the same or similar specs?

I'm looking for a quad core i6 or better, 2.0GHz or better, at least 8GB RAM and SSD HDD.

Thank you!!!

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Jack Caviness

A question which is apt to start an argument. My personal preference is always Mac, since 1984 [H] I find them easier to use, less likely to have irritating bugs, and far fewer viruses—(contrary to persistent belief Macs are not completely immune from these, but I find anti-virus software to be more annoying than viruses [:P]).

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Welcome [:D]

Mac Rumors has a Mac Buying Guide => https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac

The 2016 MacBook Pro models included PCIe storage that is noticeably faster.

PCIe storage is also available for PC.

Logos 7 and Verbum 7 are resource intensive applications that respond better on gaming hardware.

Thankful for SATA III SSD's enabling older PC laptop to be usable with Logos 7 and Verbum 7 (albeit have opportunities to wait at times).

Keep Smiling [:)]

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885573#Comment_885573

My answer will probably get some flak, but I think I have enough experience with both operating systems and use both with L7.

First I love the Mac and when Logos came out with Logos 4 on the Mac, I was hooked. I still think the Mac is great. For a lot of people who really aren't into computers, it's a good choice.

My take however is that Logos is more important than what it runs on. The library is a long term investment and the computer has maybe five years. Macs come at a premium when you can get a much better deal on a Win 10 machine. For a laptop, a Dell XPS 13 is a proven performer for way less than a MacBook Pro. L7 runs great on Win 10 and there's really no longer much of Mac-PC differential that used to be more obvious back with Win XP or earlier.

I doubt very much that I would buy a Mac again. And that's not easy to say.

Matthew

Which computer do you think would run Logos 7 better - a Mac or a PC, assuming they both had the same or similar specs?

I cannot speak to which would run Logos better assuming each machine has similar specs, but generally you can get those specs for less money on a Windows machine, leaving more money left over for Logos, a bigger/additional monitor, etc.

Mike Binks

Hi Rob

My take is slightly different.

I want a machine that just works. I am prepared to forego the facility to delve into the innards of a program and tweak every last option available for the time saving that saves.

I gave up Windows because of the need for constant Virus Protection updates and scans, Malware software requirements and poor technical support.

I know that if I have my mac running the latest version of the OS I will get help from somebody (usually Apple or one of the trade Mags) if I find something that I cannot do because (to all intents and purposes) all Mac Users are using the same system.

The computers are well made and last a long time.

When the OS outgrows the computer it is not useless and quite a few people just run their old computer on with a legacy OS.

Mark Barnes

Which computer do you think would run Logos 7 better - a Mac or a PC, assuming they both had the same or similar specs?

To answer your question specifically — with the same specs, you'll notice almost no difference running Logos on a Mac or PC. There are obviously many reasons to buy one or the other, and we all have our preferences, but you can be confident that Logos will run equally well on both. (Of course, for the same money, Logos will generally run quicker on a PC, sometimes substantially so. But that wasn't your question.)

In addition, your spec requirement seems reasonable to me (assuming you mean i5, not i6). That spec should run Logos pretty well.

Rick Ausdahl

Out of all the computers I've purchased or built since 1988, only one has been a Mac -- a desktop system purchased for my wife because she worked for a public school system and we thought it would be nice for her as the school systems back then all used Apple products.

At first, I was impressed with the Mac, mainly because the interface was more polished than its Windows counter-part. But that machine gave us more grief on a regular basis than any other ten Windows machines combined. I got so tired of seeing that little "bomb" icon appear and having a machine that was locked up so tight, the only way to fix it was to pull the machine out of its storage location and spin it around so I could access the back of the machine and hit a reset button. But sometimes that wouldn't even work and I'd have to unplug the machine. I was on the phone with Apple support many times and a few components were replaced, but the lock-up problems were never resolved.

In comparison, all my Windows systems (going back to 1988) have been problem free, and I've had several. I've built four Windows desktop machines going back to the old Windows 2.x days and continuing right up to Windows 7. I've also upgraded hardware on those machines several times, including everything from simple RAM upgrades, to completely gutting the boxes to upgrade all the innards from power supplies to Motherboards and everything in between. I've also upgraded the OS multiple times on two of the machines I built--machines that initially had Windows VISTA, which was then upgraded to Windows 7, then Windows 8, 8.1, and are now currently on Windows 10. I lost track of one of the machines after it was sold at a garage sale, but I know the other three are still running, including two I passed along to people who couldn't afford to buy computers.

Since 1988, I've also purchased two Windows desktops and 7 Windows laptops. Of all of them, I've only had one problem--a power supply that went flaky on a Windows XP desktop when it was a little over a year old. The machine had a two-year warranty on it so the manufacturer had me send it in and to my surprise, they sent me an upgraded machine as a replacement. Of the laptops I purchased, one that came with Windows VISTA has seen every Windows operating system upgrade applied to it right up through Windows 10, even though Microsoft's analysis program said the hardware would not run Windows 10--and it runs fine. Another laptop that came with Windows 8, was upgraded to 8.1 and is now running Windows 10.

So that's my Mac vs. Windows story. But that doesn't mean I look down on Macs. Some of my relatives have (and love) them, and I can only assume the one Mac I had just happened to be a lemon. But based on the good service I've had on all my Windows machines, it's hard for me to imagine what would prompt me to put out the significant additional funds needed to get a Mac with specs no better (and often lower) than the Windows based machines I can buy.

In terms of Logos 7 performance, that's going to vary from one person to another depending on library size, layout complexity, L7 Tools and Program Setting, etc.. But on my current generation (but low-end I-7) CPU, the initial load of Logos takes 15-17 seconds. If I shut it down and re-open it later, it takes about 10 seconds to load. I'm not a Logos 7 power-user so I can't speak to that, but fairly satisfied performance wise for what I do with Logos. Of course, just a little bit faster will always be just a little bit better. [;)]

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885558#Comment_885558

...since 1984 I find them easier to use, less likely to have irritating bugs, and far fewer viruses—(contrary to persistent belief Macs are not completely immune from these, but I find anti-virus software to be more annoying than viruses ).

I think that Windows has more bugs and viruses is an old argument. With win 10 I dont really see it anymore compare to my previous experiences

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885641#Comment_885641

Whichever OS you like to use more. Stability wise they're pretty much the same. Windows 10 is very stable, with few bugs (I haven't experienced any), and Windows Defender is a very capable antivirus program that's built into the OS. As long as you practice good internet discipline, viruses, malware, etc should not be a problem.

One thing Windows offers that Mac OS doesn't is a touch screen interface. Only you can decide if that's of value.

I run Logos 7 on a Surface Pro 3. I sometimes like using the touch screen to scroll through different panels rather than using the touchpad. This type of form factor is not available with Macs.

For me the edge goes to PC. I have a custom built desktop that cost a fraction of what an equivalent Mac would've been and I was able to choose all the components myself to build what I wanted. I also have a Surface Pro 3 for when I'm on the go which is a form factor that Apple doesn't even offer.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885652#Comment_885652

I have a custom built desktop that cost a fraction of what an equivalent Mac would've been and I was able to choose all the components myself to build what I wanted.

Apple product pricing comparison ranges from competitive to expensive. Also Apple has become less dependable for updating Mac models with newer hardware (seems iPhones sell a lot more). In 2013, competitive example was 27" iMac with 5K display and i7 CPU selling for less than Dell 27" 5K display.

Personally have experienced variety of issues with Windows and Mac (newer macOS and OS X is more stable/usable than older systems). Some machines work well for years while others provide opportunities for discussion. Mac models tend toward 6+ year life span while PC marketing has had 3 year replacement cycles.

Migrating from one Mac model to another is easier than Windows.

11 Jan 2017 press release => http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS42214417 shows Apple with 7.5 % market share in 4Q 2016 and # 4 Vendor in traditional PC market worldwide along with overall market decline of 1.5 %.

Keep Smiling [:)]

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885630#Comment_885630

I've also upgraded hardware on those machines several times, including everything from simple RAM upgrades, to completely gutting the boxes to upgrade all the innards from power supplies to Motherboards and everything in between.

Whether Windows or Mac, both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. And, each system has their fanboys and naysayers - so sorting out fact from stereotype and innuendo can be daunting.

But for me, the ability to upgrade hardware and software easily, quickly, and inexpensively is the main reason I stick with Windows. For example, I just upgraded my wife's Ivy Bridge system (Intel third generation Core i7-3770k) to Kaby Lake (Intel seventh generation Core i7-7700) for a little less than $700. This included motherboard, cpu, and 16 GBs of DDR4 memory - all major name-brand components. It's a system that handles all of her thousands of photos and videos with ease and, if she changes nothing for the next five years, it will have cost a mere $140 per year (39 cents per day).

I could be wrong, but I don't believe you'll be able to do that with an Apple system.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885716#Comment_885716

I could be wrong, but I don't believe you'll be able to do that with an Apple system.

Concur about hardware upgrading plus Apple Mac Pro models have yet to be updated, which is several years overdue (and puzzling for a profitable company). Apple also no longer sells server models.

For operating system upgrades, macOS and OS X continue to be free while Microsoft now charges for Windows 10.

FYI: have experienced Windows not liking too much hardware being changed at one time so automatically invalidated activation.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Rob Golding

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885725#Comment_885725

Thank you all for the very helpful feedback! From what I gather, there isn't a significant Logos 7 performance advantage to either system. It sounds like it boils down to preference. I'm a big 'buy once cry once' guy and it seems like I might get a little more longevity out of a Mac system, although with computers you never know.

Surprisingly, comparable specs on a Dell XPS system seems to cost almost as much as a MacBook Pro...

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885725#Comment_885725

FYI: have experienced Windows not liking too much hardware being changed at one time so automatically invalidated activation.

Yes. I admit I did run into that with this latest hardware upgrade and it caught me off guard. Because I had replaced motherboard and cpu, I needed to reactivate my wife's copy of Win10.

Windows versions prior to 10 were never that big of a hassle - you simply called an 800 number and input your Product Key (which was retrievable by any number of third party programs) and then the system would give you a new key. A little bit irksome, but not a big deal - especially if you had gone through the procedure before.

But now, Win10 requires you to call MS Tech Support - be prepared. First, forget about the "default" Product Key - it isn't the "real" Product Key. The "real" one (which is either a Key or a Digital License) is completely inaccessible and is stored somewhere in the bios/cmos memory. You will need either proof that you actually purchased Windows 10, or, if you got a free upgrade during the first year when 10 came out, the Product Key from whatever you upgraded from. In my case, I fortunately had retained an original Windows 8.1 key which they accepted. Once you convince the tech at the other end of the line that you're not a pirate, he/she will remotely run a few utilities and reactivates Windows for you. Again, not a big deal but it is frustrating because it is a totally new way of doing things.

For anyone who really cares, here is a link to Microsoft's explanation. And, here is a more digestible, pragmatic explanation from PCWorld magazine. FWIW, I read somewhere that it was the system builders (like Dell, HP, etc.) that pushed MS to switch over to this new way of reactivation in order to save $$.

Diego Lara

One vote for Windows 10 here.

Diego Lara

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885558#Comment_885558

A question which is apt to start an argument. My personal preference is always Mac, since 1984 I find them easier to use, less likely to have irritating bugs, and far fewer viruses—(contrary to persistent belief Macs are not completely immune from these, but I find anti-virus software to be more annoying than viruses ).

I would have to disagree on your opinion concerning antivirus software. Today's antivirus software is much less intrusive and are not even noticeable anymore. I have not had any issues with viruses for about 7 years now, since the XP/Vista days are long gone. I have noticed many people who make opinions concerning malware/virus with Windows are mostly users who have not used PC's since XP or Vista. When it comes to user friendliness, I don't think there is any noticeable difference and I believe it comes down to what you are used to using. I have known people who switched from PC to Mac and went back to PC or regretted switching because the commands and shortcuts they knew with Windows no longer apply for Mac. You will also find the same situation for people who switch from Mac to PC. At the end of the day I think both are good and have their own strength and weakness, but from what I have seen for the same price you would pay for a Mac you can get an amazing PC.

You can also skip the third party antivirus and go with the built in Windows security.

Diego Lara

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885641#Comment_885641

...since 1984 I find them easier to use, less likely to have irritating bugs, and far fewer viruses—(contrary to persistent belief Macs are not completely immune from these, but I find anti-virus software to be more annoying than viruses ).

I think that Windows has more bugs and viruses is an old argument. With win 10 I dont really see it anymore compare to my previous experiences

I agree, the "Windows gets viruses" stopped being valid 7 years ago and the argument about "antivirus programs are intrusive" is also an outdated argument since most good antivirus programs run unnoticeable and do everything in the background. And you can actually skip the third party antivirus all together and just use the built in windows defender which is good enough for the average user.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885760#Comment_885760

One vote for Windows 10 here.

Have you tried disabling the keyboard logger built into Windows 10 that sends more information to Microsoft ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

Diego Lara

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885766#Comment_885766

One vote for Windows 10 here.

Have you tried disabling the keyboard logger built into Windows 10 that sends more information to Microsoft ?

Keep Smiling

That would apply to pretty much anything you do, if you use Chrome, Firefox, Android, iOS, Youtube, Gmail Etc... they are collecting, analyzing and selling your data.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885768#Comment_885768

Have you tried disabling the keyboard logger built into Windows 10 that sends more information to Microsoft ?

Keep Smiling

That would apply to pretty much anything you do, if you use Chrome, Firefox, Android, iOS, Youtube, Gmail Etc... they are collecting, analyzing and selling your data.

Concur online usage is tracked.

Windows 10 has many Privacy settings that can be turned off so User Interface shows not collecting.

Keep Smiling [:)]

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885768#Comment_885768

That would apply to pretty much anything you do, if you use Chrome, Firefox, Android, iOS, Youtube, Gmail Etc... they are collecting, analyzing and selling your data.

Apple uses our data if we opt in, but I don't believe they sell it. See details about Apple's privacy values.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885733#Comment_885733

Surprisingly, comparable specs on a Dell XPS system seems to cost almost as much as a MacBook Pro...

Yes that might be so. I wouldn't do it by spec though. You need 8-16 RAM and an i Core and an SSD. You don't need the latest version XPS and you don't need PCIe as nice as that is. (there's no real advantage for L7). Check out the Dell Outlet. I saw something right around $800 the last time I looked.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885778#Comment_885778

Surprisingly, comparable specs on a Dell XPS system seems to cost almost as much as a MacBook Pro...

When I got my last MacBook pro Dell was actually $400 more for a comparable system.

-dan

Rob Golding

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/885778#Comment_885778

Surprisingly, comparable specs on a Dell XPS system seems to cost almost as much as a MacBook Pro...

Yes that might be so. I wouldn't do it by spec though. You need 8-16 RAM and an i Core and an SSD. You don't need the latest version XPS and you don't need PCIe as nice as that is. (there's no real advantage for L7). Check out the Dell Outlet. I saw something right around $800 the last time I looked.

Ya you're right. The specs I'm looking at will cost about $1k more on a Mac...

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/886088#Comment_886088

XPS 13 with 8GB RAM Kaby Lake iCore and 256GB SSD is right around $1000 on sale price. More than enough for Logos 7.

Rob Golding

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/886088#Comment_886088

So, I ended up forking over more cash for the MacBook pro. I found a new one on Craigslist that was last year's model for $1,900. I could have bought a XPS with comparable specs for around $1,000 (not including tax).

Now that I'm older, I just want simplicity in my life and Mac seems to offer more of that for me than PC (it might just be that Mac makes more sense than Windows in my head). Whatever the case, I've been running Logos 7 on this machine and it works beautifully. My boot up screen is 3 commentaries, an ESV and 2 note tabs. The Mac boots it up in 13 seconds (including logging in etc). Opening guides and tools is almost instantaneous, with things like passage guide taking 2 seconds or less. There is almost no delay in any of the actions I take within Logos 7.

Here's the specs of the Mac machine:

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)

2.5 GHz Intel Core i7 (3.7 GHz boost)

16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2048 MB Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB

MacOs Sierra

Running Logos 7 Starter Package (Standard) with added resources (including 77 vol Pulpit Commentary Series)

[B] Cheers! And thanks for the words of wisdom!

Eric Ross

I have a fairly high-end iMac and my work provides me with a high-end Windows 10 PC (HP zBook with SSD). WIth the convergence of Microsoft Office and the similarities between both version of Logos they are fairly interchangeable as far as I am concerned. I only tend to choose one vs. the other when I am doing software development I tend to agree that the stability differences between the two OS's has narrowed and it really is not the differentiating factor. Think in terms of your overall technology environments. If you use an iPhone and/or iPad you MIGHT want an Apple desktop. However if you are using a Surface or Android device the cheaper Windows desktop might be preferred. Another argument that I have heard is that has merit is that you might already be familiar with one and going up the learning curve for the other is just not worth it to you.

Logos performance is really dependent on big fast memory 16Gb preferred(8G OK) and a fast disk (SSD or hybrid).

Rob Golding

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/886589#Comment_886589

I have a fairly high-end iMac and my work provides me with a high-end Windows 10 PC (HP zBook with SSD). WIth the convergence of Microsoft Office and the similarities between both version of Logos they are fairly interchangeable as far as I am concerned. I only tend to choose one vs. the other when I am doing software development I tend to agree that the stability differences between the two OS's has narrowed and it really is not the differentiating factor. Think in terms of your overall technology environments. If you use an iPhone and/or iPad you MIGHT want an Apple desktop. However if you are using a Surface or Android device the cheaper Windows desktop might be preferred. Another argument that I have heard is that has merit is that you might already be familiar with one and going up the learning curve for the other is just not worth it to you.

Logos performance is really dependent on big fast memory 16Gb preferred(8G OK) and a fast disk (SSD or hybrid).

I agree. I think both systems will run the program well and second your recommendation on memory and disk speed. A solid core, good memory (not just GB) and SSD is really where the rubber meets the road. I'm not really a power user but I push the software and having quality components on those three factors proves very useful. I find myself using much more functionality than I did before on a 2.0 GHz i3 and 8GB RAM on a spinner HDD. As far as the 'ecosystem' I find Apple to sync and function a little easier than Windows/Android. Now that I'm older, I'll pay the extra buck for more simplicity, even if it's at a loss of functionality - personal preference.

David Wanat

My current machine is a Mac. I have run Windows 10 on it as a Boot Camp. In my experience both are good. Mac is not as wonderful as the fans would have it, and Windows 10 is not as bad as detractors would have it. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, and switching back and forth, I knew I could be satisfied with either.

When I replace my laptop next year, I plan to go back to PC. To get a Mac that comes close to the requirements I have, it will cost about $700 more than a similarly priced PC. Mac is good, but not $700 extra worth of good.

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