app.logos.com 2 years in I still can't rely on core functions

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This post has 23 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:26 AM

This is a friendly nudge... I love using Logos on the desktop and it is better than ever. I'm feeling a bit frustrated by the webapp though. It really doesn't seem like the webapp is getting the focus and attention we were promised especially not in the right places. The core features are floundering at alpha quality when advanced features are being rolled out.

There are some key areas where Biblia and bible.faithlife.com is still better. I can still actually drill down and find my content because it is possible to search the library view with things like 'type:monograph title:mission'. I can easily get to the table of contents for the book I'm reading. It's possible to make some notes. Give a book a rating.

Don't get me wrong I know that it takes time to make an app etc but please focus on the core basics: find a book, read a book, return to where you left off, put a thumb in a few places.

The experimental display has been experimental for all this time and still falls over every 2nd time I use it. I always have to turn it off either in chrome or firefox on both mac and linux. It seems obvious that the experiment should be abandoned and it should be implemented in a different way - maybe take a hint from pdf.js? I don't know I'm not an expert. We need a stable and great reading experience.

Most features of Logos seem to be built on search. I can get a passage guide but I can't just search journals or just search systematic theologies or just search books by Calvin etc. It isn't possible to have more than two things side by side. I can't see anything like the info panel. We need to be able to sort, filter, and search our library.

In brief, a guide is nice but really I just want to be able to read a book and search my library at a minimum after paying for a subscription for 2 years it feels disappointing that this is not possible.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1111
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:29 AM

Agree totally.  The web app was the main reason I initially subscribed to Now. I gave up on it several months ago as too frustrating to use.

Even recently I tried to open up a book in it as my desktop system is getting old and Logos opens slowly. I thought it would be an easy way to take a quick peek at something--nope, the desktop app is still faster.

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 4:25 AM

I hadn't looked at it in a month or so, and I'm actually really impressed with it on my iphone. Just saved the webapp to my home screen because the search screens and brand new atlas are so much better than the mobile app's implementation. I can now see the menu shortcuts I've saved too, which seems new.

I've noticed that the safari bars are now hidden when saved that way, but can't remember if that's new - it's certainly appreciated in any case.

It's certainly not aable to compete with the desktop app yet, and obviously we want some kind of parity to be reached as soon as possible, nor is it able to take the place of the mobile app (I need offline access to books, and easy access to my reading plans and prayer-lists) but it is making steps forward. Limited as it might be, it's still great to have access to my library and it's still my favourite online bible tool.

It might be more encouraging if these changes were communicated - maybe a monthly Logos now email explaining features, preview resources and web app improvements?

Posts 41
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 5:00 AM

Yes - it would be great to get a monthly or even quarterly update on what is being added.

In addition, it would be nice to learn ways to use it that won't get us into frustration. E.g. it works well when you ABC. Watch out for DEF!

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 5:49 AM

James McAdams:
I hadn't looked at it in a month or so

James McAdams:
it's still great to have access to my library and it's still my favourite online bible tool.

James I appreciate your comments... but I'm struggling to understand them because you say that you hadn't looked at it in a month but its your favorite online bible tool. Perhaps the deficiencies in the app make it as useless to you as to me then? That said you like how it looks to be shaping up for the future?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 6:45 AM

John Goodman:

you say that you hadn't looked at it in a month but its your favorite online bible tool. Perhaps the deficiencies in the app make it as useless to you as to me then?

If I'm at home, I'll use my Mac with Logos installed. If I'm out and about, I'll use the mobile app. I very rarely access the web app because it's very rare that I'm in a setting where the other 2 access points aren't the more obvious options. When I do need to check stuff online then it's my preferred site - but that's rare.

The deficiencies of the web app mean I cannot use it as a replacement for the mobile app, but it has some real perks (improved guides, better search tool, ability to copy images easily, vector based atlas tool), and yes, it does have a lot of potential.

It's not "there" yet, but there have been a number of improvements since I last looked.

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 11:35 AM

That makes sense... thanks. An example of what I'm upset about... just trying to access something on chrome for mac and this is what I get...

It's not very readable... I've reported it before.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 11:50 AM

John, thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback. It is very helpful to us.

John Goodman:
I can still actually drill down and find my content because it is possible to search the library view with things like 'type:monograph title:mission'

Thank you for this specific case where library view on app is failing to recognize "type:monograph". I have confirmed this bug and I hope we'll be able to track this down soon.

John Goodman:
I can easily get to the table of contents for the book I'm reading.

I'm unable to reproduce this issue. Biblia and app.logos both seem to have equivalent table of contents. Can you clarify what you meant?

John Goodman:
It's possible to make some notes

We will have some exciting news in this space coming very soon. Wink

John Goodman:
The experimental display has been experimental for all this time and still falls over every 2nd time I use it.

I would greatly appreciate more information about how the new display technology isn't working for you. Our plan to is to remove the "experimental" moniker soon because our data suggests it is proving to be a far better platform. So, obviously any way it is "falling over" for you is incredibly important to us.

John Goodman:
I can't see anything like the info panel.

We are actively working on our first info panel section and you can expect to see that rolling out to users soon.

John Goodman:
We need to be able to sort, filter, and search our library.

We are developing new technology to back library search and filtering for app.logos. Your specific feedback on what isn't working (such as "type:monograph" mentioned earlier) is very helpful as we prioritize the work building that.

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide this feedback. I look forward to receiving your help as we continue to flesh out the web app.

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 11:51 AM

John Goodman:
It's not very readable... I've reported it before.

I saw this after I already wrote my reply above. I'll pass on this specific bug. Is this the primary way the new display is failing for you?

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 12:00 PM

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):

John Goodman:
It's not very readable... I've reported it before.

I saw this after I already wrote my reply above. I'll pass on this specific bug. Is this the primary way the new display is failing for you?

John, I found the forum thread where you previously reported this. Sorry it hasn't been resolved yet. Sad

It looks like the developer attempted to reproduce the issue and asked for more information to help track it down. I'll ask that they double their efforts to determine the cause. If you get a chance to provide the information they asked for, it would likely help them.

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 1:48 PM

Thanks for your response Alan, I've supplied the info on the other thread.

On the table of contents I didn't find it - is it perhaps a bit tucked away? Could it be a sidebar like on the desktop app?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 2:05 PM

For the sake of being thorough - this from firefox...

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 2:07 PM

Thank you. I was able to repro and created a case to have this fixed.

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 2:15 PM

John Goodman:

Thanks for your response Alan, I've supplied the info on the other thread.

On the table of contents I didn't find it - is it perhaps a bit tucked away? Could it be a sidebar like on the desktop app?

I think you're right about it being tucked away. I'll see what we can do about that in the next couple weeks. Yes

I'd love to get the sidebar as well, that is a great suggestion, but that is probably a bit further out.

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:25 PM

Thanks - also please note it isn't just 'type:monograph' that fails also 'type:grammar' fails. I assumed none of them work but it seems 'type:commentary' and 'title:mission' do work. 

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 995
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:30 PM

If the experimental display is going to become fully stable soon please retain the fallback because non-webgl browsers are still around. For example I frequently access the site via my raspberry pi. I don't know who else that affects...

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 579
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:32 PM

John Goodman:

If the experimental display is going to become fully stable soon please retain the fallback because non-webgl browsers are still around. For example I frequently access the site via my raspberry pi. I don't know who else that affects...

That is great feedback. We do plan on keeping it around, but it may not support all the same features going forward such as visual filters, notes, context menu, etc.

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 4:12 PM

John Goodman:
For the sake of being thorough - this from firefox...

I have shipped a fix for this issue.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 5084
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 4:26 PM

I agree with your thoughts but also give FL some leeway on their priorities in adding features to the web app as they are designing this from the ground up, are possbly picking off some low hanging fruit in the foreground while doling a lot of work in the background to get right the fearlture you discuss that are missing. In terms of giving focus to the Atlas as a lot of work is being done to improve performance and user experience in the desktop applications and they are able to role out and test those changes much more quickly via the web app than could be done via the desktop app. Other features in the desktop app that are internet reliant like bible browser also make sense that they will appear more quickly in web app than some other long standing features we take for granted in the desktop apps.

John Goodman:

This is a friendly nudge... I love using Logos on the desktop and it is better than ever. I'm feeling a bit frustrated by the webapp though. It really doesn't seem like the webapp is getting the focus and attention we were promised especially not in the right places. The core features are floundering at alpha quality when advanced features are being rolled out.

There are some key areas where Biblia and bible.faithlife.com is still better. I can still actually drill down and find my content because it is possible to search the library view with things like 'type:monograph title:mission'. I can easily get to the table of contents for the book I'm reading. It's possible to make some notes. Give a book a rating.

Don't get me wrong I know that it takes time to make an app etc but please focus on the core basics: find a book, read a book, return to where you left off, put a thumb in a few places.

The experimental display has been experimental for all this time and still falls over every 2nd time I use it. I always have to turn it off either in chrome or firefox on both mac and linux. It seems obvious that the experiment should be abandoned and it should be implemented in a different way - maybe take a hint from pdf.js? I don't know I'm not an expert. We need a stable and great reading experience.

Most features of Logos seem to be built on search. I can get a passage guide but I can't just search journals or just search systematic theologies or just search books by Calvin etc. It isn't possible to have more than two things side by side. I can't see anything like the info panel. We need to be able to sort, filter, and search our library.

In brief, a guide is nice but really I just want to be able to read a book and search my library at a minimum after paying for a subscription for 2 years it feels disappointing that this is not possible.

Posts 1111
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 5:30 PM

As an example of the web app's frustrating uselessness, please see here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129313/887212.aspx#887212 

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