Sermon Published without my permission

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This post has 94 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 260
Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 27 2017 7:07 PM

I woke up this morning to find that whilst I was asleep my unfinished sermon was published to soundfaith without my permission. I was asleep at the time and so I know there's nothing I did. I have also never used soundfaith before.

Posts 810
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 1:25 AM

There's a check box at the bottom of the Sermon header information to pubilish it automatically to Soundfaith. I think this was new in 7.5. I make sure it's unchecked every time, as it somehow got checked on one occasion. I suspect if you check your Sermon document you'll find this box is checked. 


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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 5:12 AM

Thanks Greg.

Shouldn't be that easy, I think a button would be more appropriate. It's like one of those opt in email things. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 6:23 AM

Sean McIntyre:
Shouldn't be that easy

I agree... mostly. It should be that easy for those who want it to be so, but it should be an OPT IN and NO ACTION should be required on the part of those who don't want to participate. 

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Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 10:49 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

Unchecking the checkbox sets a preference that will apply to all future Sermon Editor documents. In other words, you only need to uncheck it once. 

Additionally, the sermon that was published can be deleted by updating the publish state on soundfaith.com



My apologies for the unexpected behavior, we definitely want to leave control of your content up to you. 

Posts 201
Garrett Ho | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:23 PM

I echo Alabama's suggestion. It should require opting in, although the current behavior is the next best thing. Also, since the website seems to use the sermons as a selling point for its premium service, I'd suggest that Faithlife be careful about these sorts of issues.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:25 PM

Scott Alexander:
Unchecking the checkbox sets a preference that will apply to all future Sermon Editor documents. In other words, you only need to uncheck it once. 

This doesn't seem to be how it works for me.

On the left is a sermon document I was working on yesterday and - as you can see the publish box is unchecked. On the right is a sermon document I have just opened and publish box is checked

I am running 7.6 beta 1 but believe I saw the same behaviour on the stable 7.5 release

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Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:30 PM

Graham, I'm not able to reproduce this behavior.

The checkbox remembers the last explicit value choice. (Which can be different from the value from your last sermon, say if you check it, and then delete that sermon.)

Are you sure the last choice you made was to uncheck it, and then a new sermon started with it checked?

Posts 1719
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 3:55 PM

Jacob and Scott

Why cant the default be that the box is unchecked, and if one wants to opt in, they have the option to check the box and up in? 

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Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 4:49 PM

Mark:

Jacob and Scott

Why cant the default be that the box is unchecked, and if one wants to opt in, they have the option to check the box and up in? 

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

Posts 260
Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 7:58 PM

Scott Alexander:

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

I compared it to an email opt-in vs opt-out  box for a reason. It is always very irritating to the customer. Giving us a choice means that you will have to work a little harder to promote and educate about the product but is more respectful to the customer.

Posts 310
Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 10:50 PM

Scott Alexander:

Mark:

Jacob and Scott

Why cant the default be that the box is unchecked, and if one wants to opt in, they have the option to check the box and up in? 

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

Thank you for the context, Scott!  That's helpful to know.  The OP pointed out that he hadn't even finished the sermon that got published without his knowledge.  I'm sure he won't be the only one to whom this happens, given the current functionality.  SoundFaith could end up with numerous unfinished documents that will frustrate not only the authors, but those who come to SoundFaith for the content.  Given the fact that the simple publish checkbox is on the same window as the rest of the basic sermon info, it only takes a fraction of a second to select it for publication.  I would greatly prefer the checkbox to be blank for each new document, so that a momentary, yet conscious, decision is required for publication.  And someone who chooses to publish one sermon won't find the next one he starts gets unintentionally published simply because he forgot to "uncheck" the saved publish setting.

That change could help maintain the integrity of the content quality on SoundFaith, minimize frustration for Sermon Editor users, and help reduce some trepidation among those who are looking forward to trying the Sermon Editor for the first time.  And that can be done with no major inconvenience for Sermon Editor users who wish to publish everything.

Thanks for your consideration.

Posts 3614
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 11:28 PM

It would also pose issues related to coptright. If I am using a sermon this week originally written by a third party and borrowed (legally) from another source, having it published without the consent of the original author might leave Faithlife or SoundFaith open to a lawsuit. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 28 2017 11:28 PM

Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife):
Are you sure the last choice you made was to uncheck it, and then a new sermon started with it checked?

Fairly sure - but I can't reproduce it now either. I'll keep an eye on it

Thanks Jacob

Posts 5470
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 3:20 AM

Mine published too, but the Scripture references don't show. The sermon is in Spanish so that may have something to do with it!

DAL

Posts 603
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 4:51 AM

This thread encouraged me to check my soundfaith....

I noticed the publish tick and before I started writing the sermon, made sure it was unchecked.  But still it was published...albeit draft...multiple times. If it's unchecked, it should never go any place except my own documents...even in draft state.  

This bothers me for some reason.  I feel strongly that my data is trusted to stay in one place.  And, is logos profiting off of the intellectual work of their users?  Did user agreement change regarding my data?  Will other data be shared on other sites that I will have to police to make sure it's not published?

If I delete from soundfaith on that website, does it delete on documents.logos.com?  

Posts 889
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 6:59 AM

Scott Alexander:

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

This approach makes sense if it's limited to cloud-based backup of my sermons (what most people thinking of as "archiving").  It's very disturbing to me if it extends to making a sermon publically available.  Archiving by default can provide an extra layer of security.  Publishing or distributing without explicit permission is a very different matter.

Posts 334
George | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 8:43 AM

Yes

Brad:

Scott Alexander:

Mark:

Jacob and Scott

Why cant the default be that the box is unchecked, and if one wants to opt in, they have the option to check the box and up in? 

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

Thank you for the context, Scott!  That's helpful to know.  The OP pointed out that he hadn't even finished the sermon that got published without his knowledge.  I'm sure he won't be the only one to whom this happens, given the current functionality.  SoundFaith could end up with numerous unfinished documents that will frustrate not only the authors, but those who come to SoundFaith for the content.  Given the fact that the simple publish checkbox is on the same window as the rest of the basic sermon info, it only takes a fraction of a second to select it for publication.  I would greatly prefer the checkbox to be blank for each new document, so that a momentary, yet conscious, decision is required for publication.  And someone who chooses to publish one sermon won't find the next one he starts gets unintentionally published simply because he forgot to "uncheck" the saved publish setting.

That change could help maintain the integrity of the content quality on SoundFaith, minimize frustration for Sermon Editor users, and help reduce some trepidation among those who are looking forward to trying the Sermon Editor for the first time.  And that can be done with no major inconvenience for Sermon Editor users who wish to publish everything.

Thanks for your consideration.

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Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 8:43 AM

DAL:

Mine published too, but the Scripture references don't show. The sermon is in Spanish so that may have something to do with it!

DAL

Thanks for the report DAL, we'll take a look. 

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Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 8:59 AM

John Fugh, Jr.:

This thread encouraged me to check my soundfaith....

I noticed the publish tick and before I started writing the sermon, made sure it was unchecked.  But still it was published...albeit draft...multiple times. If it's unchecked, it should never go any place except my own documents...even in draft state.  

This bothers me for some reason.  I feel strongly that my data is trusted to stay in one place.  And, is logos profiting off of the intellectual work of their users?  Did user agreement change regarding my data?  Will other data be shared on other sites that I will have to police to make sure it's not published?

If I delete from soundfaith on that website, does it delete on documents.logos.com?  

John, are you using Proclaim? When you send your sermon to Proclaim we automatically create a sermon document in draft mode on SoundFaith.com. The draft sermon is only visible to your account. We do this so when/if you publish your audio recording from Proclaim to SoundFaith the Sermon Editor metadata is preserved and updated, instead of overwritten. 

More information about sermon audio recording and publishing in Proclaim can be found here.

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