Sermon Published without my permission

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Posts 211
LogosEmployee

Graham--

I'm sorry to hear that! We'll investigate.

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 1 2017 2:38 AM

Hi Jacob

It's just happened again - a couple of times recently.

This is with 7.8 SR-1

Any progress in tracking this down?

Thanks, Graham

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 27 2017 6:08 AM

And I've just created another couple of Sermon documents and they both have the auto-publish option selected. This is with Logos 7.10

Posts 211
LogosEmployee

Graham, I'm sorry to hear you continue to experience this issue. We haven't reproduced the problem here, but we'll take a deeper look into the issue.

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 27 2017 9:57 AM

Thanks Jacob

Appreciated, Graham

Posts 24
Ken | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 28 2017 12:25 PM

I agree as well. I don't know if I'm speaking for most, but most of my sermons are for my congregation as they sometimes contain personal or contextual info. I love the idea of publishing a sermon for the public when I want to but I was surprised I had to uncheck a button when I used Sermon Editor for the first time.  Sometimes sermons are partially finished or in point form as well which wouldn't make any sense to anyone if they were to get published. Please separate this feature a little further from the basic use of the editor.

Ken

Posts 307
Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 28 2017 7:53 PM

Ken:

I agree as well. I don't know if I'm speaking for most, but most of my sermons are for my congregation as they sometimes contain personal or contextual info. I love the idea of publishing a sermon for the public when I want to but I was surprised I had to uncheck a button when I used Sermon Editor for the first time.  Sometimes sermons are partially finished or in point form as well which wouldn't make any sense to anyone if they were to get published. Please separate this feature a little further from the basic use of the editor.

Yes

Posts 3383
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:56 AM

Scott Alexander:
SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

Goals that the company has, even if they are ultimately for the benefit of users, can NEVER EVER trump privacy rights. Opting in must ALWAYS be a deliberate action. The email notification does not make it more acceptable. It is also a "solution" that can go wrong in many ways. The email can end up in junk mail or be deleted accidentally. What if the user did not want to publish and find out through the email that they did? Then they have to take action to fix it and should not have to. Moreover, in the meantime, they still have been published against their will. For many it may not be a big deal, but for churches that copyright sermons or speakers that publish them, it is completely unacceptable practice. 

I don't mean to come across as "yelling" as it were, but I do want to communicate unequivocally that we as users must have complete confidence that there will not be any game played, and no tricky roundabout approaches, around the confidentiality of our content. Such decisions simply do not belong to Faithlife. 

Please fix this and if there are ANY other feature of Logos that works in a roundabout way with regard to publishing user content as well, fix those as well. 

Posts 888
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 7:22 AM

Francis:

I don't mean to come across as "yelling" as it were, but I do want to communicate unequivocally that we as users must have complete confidence that there will not be any game played, and no tricky roundabout approaches, around the confidentiality of our content. Such decisions simply do not belong to Faithlife. 

This is one case where yelling may be appropriate. It is an absolute deal-breaker for me.  I simply will not use the sermon editor.  How can I afford to use any software that may - without my knowledge - publish something under my name on the internet?  That's quite a risk.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 10:21 AM

EastTN:

Francis:

I don't mean to come across as "yelling" as it were, but I do want to communicate unequivocally that we as users must have complete confidence that there will not be any game played, and no tricky roundabout approaches, around the confidentiality of our content. Such decisions simply do not belong to Faithlife. 

This is one case where yelling may be appropriate. It is an absolute deal-breaker for me.  I simply will not use the sermon editor.  How can I afford to use any software that may - without my knowledge - publish something under my name on the internet?  That's quite a risk.

Technically it’s not without our knowledge.

The software issue is that the consent box is being filled in when it shouldn’t be. I check it and deselect it and so nothing is published.

as per my posts above I think this should be changed but understand the issues the Faithlife team are having in tracking this down.

Posts 888
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 10:34 AM

Graham Criddle:

Technically it’s not without our knowledge.

The software issue is that the consent box is being filled in when it shouldn’t be. I check it and deselect it and so nothing is published.

as per my posts above I think this should be changed but understand the issues the Faithlife team are having in tracking this down.

Granted.  But I think it's telling that you have to start the sentence with the word "technically."  The core issue is that the software behaves in a way that is, from the standpoint of an average user, both unexpected and potentially harmful.

Please understand, I understand how chasing down what's causing this might be difficult, and I'm not trying to impugn anyone's motives at FaithLife.  I just don't think it's prudent to use a software feature that behaves this way.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 1:33 PM

Graham Criddle:
Technically it’s not without our knowledge.

Graham Criddle:
The software issue is that the consent box is being filled in when it shouldn’t be.

So in other words, it IS without knowledge or consent... unless you happen to know that the box has been checked without permission. 

OSX & iOS | Mac Logs | PC LogsInstall

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 1:52 PM

alabama24:

Graham Criddle:
Technically it’s not without our knowledge.

Graham Criddle:
The software issue is that the consent box is being filled in when it shouldn’t be.

So in other words, it IS without knowledge or consent... unless you happen to know that the box has been checked without permission. 

Yes - but the box is clearly visible when filling in the sermon info section of the Sermon document.

Posts 46
Robert murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:12 PM

“clearly visible”

therefore, if I want to use it, I can clearly find it to check it. No need to auto-opt me in...

Robert

Missionary in Bolivia

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iMac - Macbook Air - iPad - L7 Baptist Portfolio - Logos Now

Posts 1715
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:58 PM

EastTN:
It is an absolute deal-breaker for me. 

Yes.  I have not bothered to learn about sermon editor simply because this issue is a deal breaker for me.  I produce sermons in docx and upload them as a personal book and that works perfect for me. Sermon editor may have cool features, but I am not even interested in learning about them because of the issue raised by this thread.  I am happy for those using Sermon Editor and enjoying it.

Posts 7
Jeff Fischer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 4:53 PM
I'm curious where we landed on this topic? No posts since November (unless I'm doing something wrong), but I see that the "Automatically publish..." box is still checked by default on new Sermon documents (version 7.15). I have complete respect for all the various opinions on this topic. My personal opinion is that a default opt-in is wrong (here, and pretty much in any context), but it's not a deal-breaker. The Sermon Editor is a great tool, and remembering to uncheck the box isn't a huge deal. It seems the obvious solution is to put the default state of the checkbox in Preferences (somewhere), and if that's been done (I didn't read the *entire* thread), please enlighten me.
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 11:39 PM

Jeff Fischer:
I'm curious where we landed on this topic?

This was thought to have been addressed in 7.14 which has in the release notes:

"Sermon Editor

  • Fixed a problem where the previous auto-publish setting was occasionally ignored for new sermons."

However - as per https://community.logos.com/forums/t/167427.aspx - I believe the problem is still present

Posts 46
Robert murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2018 3:59 AM

Therefore, still not what was asked for. Your users have requested it be opt in...not opt out. 

If it had been fixed as your users had requested, it would not still be coming up over a year later. 

Sorry to to sound so blunt but evidently, the mistake was not learned or logos is too proud to admit they made a mistake. 

Robert

Missionary in Bolivia

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iMac - Macbook Air - iPad - L7 Baptist Portfolio - Logos Now

Posts 4683
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2018 4:46 AM

Robert murray:
Sorry to to sound so blunt but evidently, the mistake was not learned or logos is too proud to admit they made a mistake. 

In Faithlife's eyes they have not made a mistake, to them there is no lesson to be learned. It is very clear from their comments this was never going to be changed form opt out to opt in check box by default because they want their premium subscription service to full of sermons - they care little what users think. They are of the view if you use our sermon editor then your sermons are our to do what we like with them until you tell us otherwise. In this instance this is shameful behaviour by those who sat in that room and decided it was acceptable to do this and it is shameful behaviour by the leaders of this company who signed off on it. 

Garrett Ho:

I echo Alabama's suggestion. It should require opting in, although the current behavior is the next best thing. Also, since the website seems to use the sermons as a selling point for its premium service, I'd suggest that Faithlife be careful about these sorts of issues.

Unlimited access to an ever-growing library of practical tools for sermon prep, including sermons from other pastors, text illustrations, and over 6,000 motions and stills for only $19.99/month!'

Scott Alexander:

Mark:

Jacob and Scott

Why cant the default be that the box is unchecked, and if one wants to opt in, they have the option to check the box and up in? 

Mark, there was much discussion internally around this change. SoundFaith has proven itself to be a valuable sermon archiving resource and its integration with Sermon Editor makes it possible to utilize without any extra work. Most people won’t change the defaults and we really want people to get to use this feature. However, we understand it’s not for everyone and so we send a notification email after the first auto-publish event, ensuring that everyone knows about the change.

Posts 46
Robert murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 7:12 AM

May need to try again...I have had it switched off for a long time now.  However, I just got an email yesterday that a message was going to be published.  I checked and yes, it was checked to auto-publish...again...

When will Logos figure out that we dont like this and that it needs to be fixed and NOT just have a "bandaid" put on it???

Robert

Missionary in Bolivia

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iMac - Macbook Air - iPad - L7 Baptist Portfolio - Logos Now

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