Is Logos still the best? (disappointment with Journal of Biblical Literature pre-pub turns into gripe asking this question)

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Posts 56
Paul Knopf | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 23 2010 3:27 PM

WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS A GRIPE SESSION; IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE TEMPERAMENT, PASS OVER THIS.

I am somewhat disappointed that the Journal of Biblical Literature is still stuck in the Pre-Pub gathering interest stage.  I was really looking forward to having JBL incorporated into my Logos library but it still hasn't happened yet.  I know there is another thread that talks about the merits of JBL in hopes of getting more interest, but still it hasn't garnered any more interest.  Now another bible program (Accordance) will be releasing the exact same set of JBL on its platform (thanks to Rick Mansfield for posting this).

I have recommended Logos for Bible software exclusively to friends/colleagues/etc. because only Logos had the plethora/breadth of resources.  Now others are catching up.  I was excited that Logos is releasing Zondervan titles, but that other bible program will be offering the exact same titles also.  Logos used to offer Westminster/John Knox titles, but no more (I know this isn't Logos' decision, but what can we do to get WJK to switch back to Logos?) 

I think all this amounts to lower pride in my Logos library.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy using Logos and still do recommend it, but it is no longer the only program I recommend.  Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Posts 39
Douglas McMasters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 3:44 PM

Ok, you convinced me.  I placed a pre-pub.

Posts 97
Al | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 3:48 PM

I, too, get frustrated with some of the prepubs languishing. Unfortunately, they are market driven. And let's face it, the primary buyer of Logos material seems to be of the conservative/evangelical nature. I've also had JBL on prepub for a long time - in fact, one of my prepubs has been sitting there for four years! And it won't get better, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, I was quite pleased when the Harvard Classics collection and the Fortress Pastoral Care series went to prepub when I didn't expect that it would happen.

However - Logos is still the program I recommend and will continue to recommend. There is much I don't care for in Logos offerings, but there are also many things that I do appreciate. Now if we could only get the ICC at a lower price. Sigh.

Posts 2830
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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 3:49 PM

Douglas A. McMasters:

Ok, you convinced me.  I placed a pre-pub.

Yes. For those interested here is the link to the product page http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/3625

 

Edit

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Posts 1131
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 3:56 PM

Good job Paul, you're two orders closer to production!

Posts 56
Paul Knopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 4:02 PM

Woohoo!

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 4:11 PM

I am surprised to hear some others are catching up with Logos, I don't keep up with others, but I always thought Logos had more resources than others. 

What we don't know is what the model is that economically justifies Logos publishing a new work on prepub or community, does it have to breakeven from the initial orders? Does it presume some model of purchases over the next year? Does it presume that if say there are 50% more titles published a year from now, overall Logos revenue goes up because they "win"customers to their platform?

I only hope Logos has and keeps the "big picture" on their economic model.  Being too granular in their publishing decisions could hurt us all severly in the long run.

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 4:18 PM

Ironically, as Logos gets bigger, it costs more for them to offer resources than it does their competitors. We expect references to other material to be properly linked, if that other material exists in Logos. The more that exists in Logos, the more links are required, and the greater the cost of creating the links. For something like JBL, that's an awful lot of potential markup that needs to be done to things like lexicons, technical commentaries, Church Fathers, Qumran scrolls, Philo and other intertestamental literature, and so on. This is not something that can be done by someone on minimum wage - it would need a seminary graduate to manually create and check all these links. That costs $$$.

Those links will make the Logos offering more valuable to me than the competition, but I suppose it could theoretically mean sometimes we don't get the resource because the expense is just too much.

Posts 149
David A. Peterson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 4:37 PM

Is Logos still the best?

Yes.

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 7:32 PM

Ok I am in....Thanks TED!!!

 

Posts 19193
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 7:49 PM

Mark Barnes:

The more that exists in Logos, the more links are required, and the greater the cost of creating the links. For something like JBL, that's an awful lot of potential markup that needs to be done to things like lexicons, technical commentaries, Church Fathers, Qumran scrolls, Philo and other intertestamental literature, and so on. This is not something that can be done by someone on minimum wage - it would need a seminary graduate to manually create and check all these links.

I was under the impression that a certain amount of this can be automated now, but someone with the proper training would still need to proof the results, and/or do some pre-processing proofing to bring the references into some consistent standard. Not all books use consistent abbreviations and references for ancient titles they are citing, etc. It is still a labor intensive job, and indeed gets somewhat more time consuming the more resources Logos has the ability to link to.

Posts 19193
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 7:56 PM

Paul Knopf:

WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS A GRIPE SESSION...

Ha! I was setting myself up for a massively negative spewing of complaint language, given your warning, but your post was very gentle and tame compared to some I've seen in these forums. Thanks for your restraint. Smile

Paul Knopf:

I am somewhat disappointed that the Journal of Biblical Literature is still stuck in the Pre-Pub gathering interest stage.  I was really looking forward to having JBL incorporated into my Logos library but it still hasn't happened yet.

I ordered this back in November. I'm looking forward to it too. Journals are excellent resources for searching out particular interpretation questions on passages of Scripture. JBL is highly respected and this is a great price. The SRP is unrealistically inflated (it's probably what Libraries and Institutions have to pay for the print edition because all their patrons can use them, but no individual would ever buy them at that price). Nevertheless, the pre-pub price is half of the eventual price Logos will sell this for, and that is among the best deals to be had in the pre-pub program.

Posts 56
Paul Knopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2010 10:19 PM

One bonus of the Logos version, if it can get to production, is that the pre-pub price through Logos (currently $149) is cheaper that the published price of the other program ($200).

Thanks for the kind words...been thinking about this for a while, finally posted it.

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 3:11 AM

I had ordered this ages ago and then cancelled last month in a fit of economy (I had to spend £2000 having the car fixed), but I have rebid today for several reasons:

 

  1. It is really a bargain.
  2. It is really useful
  3. I want be able to access it on ATLASerials after the summer
  4. I am just a soft touch and you folks had me almost in tears. Crying

Whatever – I'm back in.

 

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Posts 1456
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 4:30 AM

Paul Knopf:

I think all this amounts to lower pride in my Logos library.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy using Logos and still do recommend it, but it is no longer the only program I recommend.  Does anyone feel the same way I do?

The only reason why I wouldn't recommend Logos to anyone is that Logos is tempting me to spend more and more money (and yes, I have already placed a pre-pub for JBL). Besides, my impression is that most students/ministers here in the Netherlands have never heard of either Acc....nce or Logos/SESB. The dominant academic Bible program is B....W.... which doesn't offer any journals at all.

There is only one module for which I envy Acc....nce users and that is the tagged Kaufmann Hebrew Mishna. It's a pity that even a great pre-pub like Jastrow's Hebrew/Aramaic dictionary can't make it into production, much less a tagged Hebrew Mishna.

Still, Logos is by far the best!

 

 

 

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 12:48 PM

Mark Barnes:
We expect references to other material to be properly linked, if that other material exists in Logos. The more that exists in Logos, the more links are required, and the greater the cost of creating the links.
That is not totally true.  While some work must be done hands on, some of this linking is done with a special program Logos created.

Blessings

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 69
Nick Watson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 1:46 PM

One more order on pre-pub just went in...

Posts 595
Pam Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 2:04 PM

This one is my oldest pre-pub that's not yet under production. At least I saved a little money by ordering it almost 2 years ago, as I see the price has gone up since then.

Posts 571
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 2:09 PM

This went on prepub in Jan of 2008 and covered issues up through 2006. Now that two years have gone by I'm hoping Logos will update the collection by a couple of more years.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2010 4:07 PM

NickWatson:

One more order on pre-pub just went in...

Yes

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