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Posts 8
Patrick Brentlinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 9:25 PM

I can totally understand everyone's frustration.  I am an application usability expert working to develop web applications.  So I am very familiar with your frustration and the oddity of time line prediction.

I am actually quite pleased to be in the alpha phase of this project, as it appears to me that the development team are looking for user feedback as they progress through the development life cycle.  Getting that feedback is imperative for applications to be truly useful to us.  So I will run both the windows version in my vmware fusion instance and the alpha locally so that I can be of some service to this development group.  I understand the challenges they face.  I just hope they can get the application to feel like a native mac application and not just a windows application in a shiny wrapper.

Posts 235
Stephen Ashton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 4:20 AM

Patrick Brentlinger:
the oddity of time line prediction

Patrick, you're right. This is the problem. The development team are clearly 'once burned, twice shy' with regard to timescales. 

Actually, this is fine by me. Actions speak louder than words. So a significant new public alpha release every fortnight says a lot more than a tentative date several months down the line.

Read FAQ and Guide for Reporting Bugs.

13" Macbook • 2GHz • 2GB RAM • OS 10.6.6 • 160GB Hard Drive

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 1:23 PM

Hi Allen (Adkins)

You might want to change your forum display name from being your e-mail address, because you'll find that website 'scrapers' (not associated with Logos of course) will pull your e-mail address off as it is in clearly recognisable e-mail format and then you'll find your SPAM e-mail load shooting up.

You can change it in your Logos account settings page.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers

PS

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 21
Allen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 1:55 PM

Thanks Patrick

Posts 34
Gary Byrd | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 4:40 PM

It's not the fact that it is in alpha, its not the fact that it is feature deficient, we all understood that when we signed up for the alpha. This never has been the issue ... the issue is that we can not get an official time frame of when we might be looking at a GM.

We understand that "Coming Soon" is a relative term, but you have to agree that were not talking about $20 either. In some cases were looking at more than a $1,000 ... Personally, i do not think that it would be unwise to simply say that "Coming Soon" actually means in about 6-8 months, or 10 -12 months. It may actually, help people make a better decision.

Nobody is is trying to speak negatively about Logos or the developers working on the Mac side ... I am their biggest fan and want them to get it right.

However, can you seriously, with a straight face actually suggest to people that they should purchase Parrallels or Fusion plus a copy of Windows, just to run Logos 4 for Windows ... that is still feature incomplete? C'mon ... How could you even offer that as a viable solution? Who wants to spend the extra money to begin with? Who wants the hassle? Maybe some don't mind ... but me, I'll just use another product and tinker around with L4M until it becomes a bit more usable.

 

Posts 4593
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:34 AM

My problem is that I don't want the program ever to be 'feature complete'!

I want to see it getting better and better.

Being a simple soul, and blessed with the fact that I have had few problems with the iterations, and not needing much in the way of the the fancy add ons, I am finding the current versions pretty usable so I don't much care if it is called Alpha Beta or Charlie.

Now I do have some hymn presentation software that thinks it is 'feature complete' and doesn't seem to have been upgraded for some years. That is a pain - because I don't think it is feature complete.

Feel free to leave me any recommendations for a better option - I would appreciate it.

Tootle pip

Mike 

Posts 10482
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 6:41 AM

Gary Byrd:

It's not the fact that it is in alpha, its not the fact that it is feature deficient, we all understood that when we signed up for the alpha. This never has been the issue ... the issue is that we can not get an official time frame of when we might be looking at a GM.

We understand that "Coming Soon" is a relative term, but you have to agree that were not talking about $20 either. In some cases were looking at more than a $1,000 ... Personally, i do not think that it would be unwise to simply say that "Coming Soon" actually means in about 6-8 months, or 10 -12 months. It may actually, help people make a better decision.

I can't find the post now as the forum software does not have a viable search function. Back in December (I believe), Bob Pritchett posted (I paraphrase from memory) If you promise not to hold me to it, in about 6 months the Mac and Windows versions will be practically identical in operation. It does not get any more official than that.

Gary Byrd:
However, can you seriously, with a straight face actually suggest to people that they should purchase Parrallels or Fusion plus a copy of Windows, just to run Logos 4 for Windows ... that is still feature incomplete?

It works for me, but then, I had been using that configuration long before L-1 Mac was released. 

Gary Byrd:
I'll just use another product and tinker around with L4M until it becomes a bit more usable.

If that works for you, do it. I am also using another product in parallel with L-4 Windows, and I just tinker with L-4 Mac.

Believe me, I understand frustration. I have been anticipating a Mac version since Logos first announced they were developing a Mac version (was that 2005 or 2006?). Then, the problem was lack of any communication. Today, communication is much, much better. But we still do not know when feature parity will arrive. 

EDIT: I agree with Mike in hoping that Logos never decides that all features are complete and stops adding features.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 12:05 PM

Gary Byrd:

However, can you seriously, with a straight face actually suggest to people that they should purchase Parrallels or Fusion plus a copy of Windows, just to run Logos 4 for Windows ... that is still feature incomplete? C'mon ... How could you even offer that as a viable solution? Who wants to spend the extra money to begin with? Who wants the hassle? Maybe some don't mind ... but me, I'll just use another product and tinker around with L4M until it becomes a bit more usable.

{Looking in mirror} Yep, face is still on right.

I think some people are forgetting that we are not primarily buying a Windows software package or a Mac software package, but books, and not just any book. The software is just the wrapper. Some people want a wrapper in a better OS - they hang out here.

I didn't say that you or anyone had to buy a virtualisation product. I said (in essence) if people wanted to get access to the books then hey, one way to do it today is slum it with Windows for a while until the Mac version was released. My pride can stretch to that. 

I got 25% off my base scholar's library package and had VMware already on my Mac with a legit copy of XP I got in a box of Cheerios (did I get the name of an American breakfast cereal right?) so hey, why not. So I have access to the books and I haven't had to pay for two complete packages - how much does that cost? More than a copy of VMware I'm sure.

So at the end of the day I'm enjoying full, released, Logos 4,being productive and not getting an ulcer. Who's smiling Wink

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 10482
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 2:02 PM

Patrick S.:
a legit copy of XP I got in a box of Cheerios (did I get the name of an American breakfast cereal right?)

You got the name correct, but Cracker Jacks usually has better prizes. Geeked

Posts 235
Stephen Ashton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 3:06 PM

Jack Caviness:
I agree with Mike in hoping that Logos never decides that all features are complete and stops adding features.

Me too!

Experience of the PC platform suggests that more features will be added as time goes on. I hope I'm right! Smile

Read FAQ and Guide for Reporting Bugs.

13" Macbook • 2GHz • 2GB RAM • OS 10.6.6 • 160GB Hard Drive

Posts 1874
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 1:10 AM

Stephen Ashton:
hope I'm right! Smile

I hope you are too. L4 in both platforms has a long way to go to catch up with L3. For instance, the Copy Verses facility in L3 is customisable, selectable and no further than a single click away.

However, I'm sure that L4 will get there. Already L4Mac is more than a match for LMac 1.2.2. I haven't used it now for over a week and I don't anticipate using it again. L3 is a different story. I need it for my research work on my venerable (5-year-old) Toshiba M200 Tablet. L4 just doesn't cut it yet in syntactical and morphological searches. But I am sure that, given time, it will.

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 4GHz; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.12.2; 1TB FD; Logos 7

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