Pasting SBL Hebrew into Pages

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Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010 1:45 PM

Hello everyone,

I was planning to delimit the clauses of Psalm 16. I copied the Psalm and pasted it into pages.  Then I use a table format to put each clause in it's order. The problem I am having is that Pages won't allow me to click on any of the Hebrew words in a given verse. I can click on the whole verse or the whole Psalm. The mouse will not allow me to click on a given word to color code or to return a line.  

I was able to do this for L3, but I used a PC at the time. I just copied the Hebrew into Word or Open office doc. I could maneuver the mouse wherever. 

Is it my Pages settings? What am I missing?  

Thanks,

Ben

Posts 73
Boris Repschinski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 2:48 AM

The problem is with pages because it cannot interpret OpenType correctly. Try another Hebrew font(New Peninim is part of the Mac package, but I am not sure it contains all characters needed for your purposes), and you should be fine.

Boris Repschinski

Professor of NT Studies

University of Innsbruck

Posts 10737
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:30 AM

Benjamin M. Oliveira:
Is it my Pages settings? What am I missing?  

Ben, Welcome to the Mac Forum.

I have never been successful in editing any Hebrew font in Pages, and Word for Mac is even worse. The only Mac word Processor that handles Hebrew text correctly appears to be Mellel. Many users of the other Mac Bible Study software speak very highly of Mellel, but it does have a steep learning curve.

I have never tried the font recommended by Boris, so I can't comment on that. You could give it a try.

Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:09 AM

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the info.

I used the Hebrew in L3 all the time with Word and Open Office. I had no problem cutting and pasting single words of the Hebrew, or color coding the finite verbs.  I could do whatever I needed with the Hebrew for translation purposes, just like the Greek.

 I was able to format and delimit the clauses in the text editor with no problems, but it will not move to Pages at all, because I cannot click on any single Hebrew word. It will only highlight verses or in the whole Biblical text. 

So, to the mac programmers, is there anything that can be done to copy and paste Hebrew from BHS 4.0, BHS 4.2, etc, and be able to handle it in Pages?  If no, this will force me to keep running L3 on a PC otherwise. 

I look forward to anymore assistance.

Thanks,

Ben

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:32 AM

Just to confirm - 

Did you try Boris' suggestion without success?

Tootle pip

Mike

Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:50 AM

Hi Mike,

I did. No success.

It converts New Pennim fine, but I still cannot manage any word. I can click on one whole verse (in this case Psalm 16), or the whole Biblical text.  What I am really puzzled about is that if we can do it in Greek, why can't we do it with Hebrew?  In other words, I can copy and paste any Greek word into Pages from L4 for Mac, and highlight it, cut it, paste it - no formatting issues. With Hebrew, it is not even close. I copy it in. It is all indented weird. And I cannot click on any single word. 

What a pain!

Ben

Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 8:16 AM

Hi everyone,

One other thing to add. I did some quick looking around on Mac supports forums for pages. Boris is right on. The problem with the Hebrew fonts is Pages. 

See this link: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11217824  or search under "pasting Hebrew fonts into pages". 

This creates quite a dilemma for L4 for Mac. It seems Millel works, but I shouldn't have to invest more money and more time into another product to supplement. I might just have to download Open office. 

thanks,

Ben

Posts 73
Boris Repschinski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:17 AM

Well, in fact the problem isn't Pages so much as the os x font rendering engine, which Pages uses. It cannot place Hebrew vowels of the SBL-Font correctly. But nevertheless, it is a pain, particularly the horrible Hebrew editing functionality of Pages, and I hope that people are flooding Apple’s servers with complaints about it. Word for Mac is even worse, for those in search of small consolations.

If I absolutely need the layout Pages can provide, I usually preformat any Hebrew text in Textedit, and then drag and drop.

As an alternative I strongly recommend Nisus Writer Pro (not Nisus Wrter Express). It does most things quite nicely, never crashes, is easier to learn than Mellel, and the Nisus texts can be used widely since Nisus’ native format is RTF. Nisus handles Hebrew very well, but needs some initial (and easy) tender loving care to set it up correctly. Mellel uses it's own format, and the conversion to RTF is rather spotty, if you need to share your documents. If you don't share your files, Mellel is fine though, and has more capabilities than Nisus. I have both, but use Nisus much more often.

Boris

Boris Repschinski

Professor of NT Studies

University of Innsbruck

Posts 4
Robert Akins | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:33 AM

Try going to the Bibleworks site  Download their Hebrew Fonts.   (Free)

Put them in the font directory ( they are true type)

I have had great success with editing text copied from various sources including bibleworks, L3, other documents then editing them in Pages.

Their is also a keyboard map for the font and you can type directly in hebrew or greek.

 

Works well for me

 

Bob

 

Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:19 PM

Hi Bob,

Could you elaborate more? 

I did what you mentioned. I downloaded the fonts as a zip file. I manually dragged them into MacHD/Lib/Fonts as .ttf files. I opened the Pages document. I changed them into Bwhebb and Bwhebi. I could do nothing with them besides highlight the whole line or the whole Psalm. Am I missing something?   

Thanks,

Ben

Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:34 PM

Boris,

spaceeba (Thanks). 

You are right on -- I am afraid. 

Thanks for the help.,

Ben

Posts 73
Boris Repschinski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:34 AM

Benjamin M. Oliveira:

Hi Bob,

Could you elaborate more? 

Not to preempt Bob but here you go: The Bibleworks Fonts are nicely designed. Unfortunately, they are not unicode compatible. This means they are useless with the Apple keyboard layouts as well as with Logos, since both use unicode. As a consequence, you can use the Bibleworks Fonts to type yourself, using the specific BW keyboard map. But copy-paste operations from Logos will not work correctly with those fonts.

Again, if you really need Hebrew textediting, go with Mellel or Nisus, and those will support Logos nicely. Why complicate life with yet another font layout?

Boris

Boris Repschinski

Professor of NT Studies

University of Innsbruck

Posts 10737
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:53 AM

Benjamin M. Oliveira:
I used the Hebrew in L3 all the time with Word and Open Office. I had no problem cutting and pasting single words of the Hebrew, or color coding the finite verbs.  I could do whatever I needed with the Hebrew for translation purposes, just like the Greek.

Word does handle individual words correct.  When you paste an entire sentence, the individual words are correct, but each word is then placed in an incorrect order. I have heard a rumor (don't remember where) that the next version of Word for Mac will handle right-to-left languages correctly.

Benjamin M. Oliveira:
So, to the mac programmers, is there anything that can be done to copy and paste Hebrew from BHS 4.0, BHS 4.2, etc, and be able to handle it in Pages?  If no, this will force me to keep running L3 on a PC otherwise. 

I believe the problem is with Pages rather than with Logos. I have the same problem when pasting Hebrew text from Accordance into Pages.

Posts 9
Benjamin Galan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 9:25 AM

Greetings to all. Mellel is a nice piece of software. However, if you don't want to spend any money, NeoOffice (or OpenOffice.org) works beautifully with unicode fonts. However, you'll have to change the SBL Hebrew font to New Peninim MT and all vowels and accents will look fine. I hope this is helpful. Blessings.

Benjamin

Posts 270
Kelvin Niblett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 4:31 AM

Jack Caviness:

Word does handle individual words correct.  When you paste an entire sentence, the individual words are correct, but each word is then placed in an incorrect order. I have heard a rumor (don't remember where) that the next version of Word for Mac will handle right-to-left languages correctly.

    I have Word 2013 and Logos 5   When I attempt to paste a Hebrew word into a word document it reverses the order of letters. (it also does it on this forum)   If I was copying the Hebrew text       CBA  it would read ABC yet when I copy into pastes as ABC (which would read CBA)   how do I work around this?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 12:22 PM

Kelvin Niblett:
how do I work around this?

The only way I know is to purchase Mellel, which is $50 last time I checked, but I think they may have lowered that. Be aware that this app has a steep learning curve, especially for those accustomed to Word.

LibreOffice is free and will handle Hebrew, but it is also less capable.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 1:19 PM

Kelvin Niblett:
I have Word 2013 and Logos 5

Kelvin - Since you are using windows, and using L5, it would be better if you created a new thread in the L5 forum. This forum is for L4 users on the Mac platform. Also, you should look at the dates when responding to a thread you found by search. This thread is three years old!  Wink

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Posts 14
Benjamin M. Oliveira | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 8:11 PM

Hi Kevin,

For my Mac, I ended up using OpenOffice.  It is very similar to Word.  It is free.  It handles the Hebrew fonts well!  Go to openoffice.org.

I hope that helps.

Ben

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 8:31 PM

Kelvin is on Windows... Wink

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 22 2013 8:53 PM

Benjamin M. Oliveira:
For my Mac, I ended up using OpenOffice.

For those who do use Mac, I recommend LibreOffice over OpenOffice (and NeoOffice). It is virtually the same, but more adapted to Mac, and with far fewer bugs and far better documentation. (At least that was true at the time when I tried them both out.)

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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