How to build your library (cheap)

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This post has 19 Replies | 1 Follower

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 27 2010 2:29 PM

Figured we needed a promo video for CP

http://www.logos.com/communitypricing

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Rodney Underwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:07 PM

Also Logos March Madness................Yes

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:40 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why I want random volumes of "stuff" for my Logos library.  Sort of like collecting baseball cards I suppose....Beer

Posts 19692
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:09 PM

ReneAtchley:

I'm still trying to figure out why I want random volumes of "stuff" for my Logos library.  Sort of like collecting baseball cards I suppose....Beer

It's not really random volumes of "stuff" -- you only bid on books that you have an interest in, and Logos selects books to offer via community pricing that have been valued by many Christians in the past because they have some outstanding qualities. Some of them might be slightly dated, but that's how Logos can get away with doing them for such good prices; there are no royalties to pay.

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:56 PM

I can sort of understand purchase of exegetical or other technical items that may be a direct resource for ministerial activities like preaching/counseling.  I do not, however, understand why one would want to collect devotional materials (especially dated ones) in the pursuit of building ones Logos library.   Perhaps its just a matter of personal preference, but this process just seems like a marketing gimmick to me....but that's just me.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:13 PM

ReneAtchley:

I can sort of understand purchase of exegetical or other technical items that may be a direct resource for ministerial activities like preaching/counseling.  I do not, however, understand why one would want to collect devotional materials (especially dated ones) in the pursuit of building ones Logos library.   Perhaps its just a matter of personal preference, but this process just seems like a marketing gimmick to me....but that's just me.

Renee, sometimes I think: "man, that would be dumb to get that old book.  They can't possibly teach me anything."  Especially if it is in a tradition that I don't line up with.  Or I might think: "it is going to be difficult to wade through that old English" or whatever.

 

But I am often wrong.  I find that I have learned MUCH from those old timers:  Thomas A Kempis, Brother Lawrence, Cassian, Luther, Anselm: they have all taught me things.  Today I just uncovered some gems from John Chrysostom.

 

George Muller's life story is pretty incredible.  Soon I will be able to search for illustrations, quotes, let alone just be able to richly gain from this man's walk of faith, part of the great cloud of Logos of witnesses.

Cantena Aurea will allow me to unearth more great quotes and insight from the early fathers.  Are we to think they are more dumb than we?  If we have a mentor or spiritual guide we go to now, could we not learn of those who were filled with God's Spirit, and closer in proximity to Jesus and the Apostles?

 

In Seminary, I learned to cherish my international friends, as well as the different perspective they gave to my 2oth century, Western mindset.  Community Pricing is often seen by me in that light.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:25 PM

ReneAtchley:

...I do not, however, understand why one would want to collect devotional materials (especially dated ones)...

I agreed with this until I went back to the community pricing page and looked at what's being offered. I see no dated "devotional materials" listed...at least not by modern standards of "devotional" material.

I probably just don't know what you mean by devotional.  If you're referring to The Christian's Daily Walk by Henry Scudder, I suggest reading some of it online and then judging whether it fits your definition of devotional or not. It's definitely not Our Daily Bread!

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:39 PM

I am positive that one can rationalize the purchase of every item offered by Logos and expand his or her library to several thousand.  I wonder though if such purchases would be made if we had to store these devotional/historical works on the shelf as they stare back at us on a daily basis in the pursuit of our ministerial goals.  Much like any other process of collecting every item that is collected can have an attached emotional or historical importance that would require one to purchase that item.  I am wondering if this process of building ones library is more of a fascination, in many cases, with the pursuit of the item than the reflection of an underlying ministerial need.  Really this isn't necessarily a deep theological or psychological exploration as much as I keep questioning why I have purchased what I have and still find no use for them in my D. Min work.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:49 PM

ReneAtchley:
but that's just me.

I have (comparatively) few resources of which I use a subset. When I purchase "big ticket" items they are always things I expect to use frequently. For "middle-sized prices" I also pick up items that have particular information for which I know no other source. For "real bargains" I'm willing to purchase items simply to influence the overall content available in Logos. Every user can develop their own purchase strategies, but I like the pre-pub/community pricing for its more direct influence on the breadth of Logos resources.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:58 PM

ReneAtchley:

I am positive that one can rationalize the purchase of every item offered by Logos and expand his or her library to several thousand.  I wonder though if such purchases would be made if we had to store these devotional/historical works on the shelf as they stare back at us on a daily basis in the pursuit of our ministerial goals.  Much like any other process of collecting every item that is collected can have an attached emotional or historical importance that would require one to purchase that item.  I am wondering if this process of building ones library is more of a fascination, in many cases, with the pursuit of the item than the reflection of an underlying ministerial need.  Really this isn't necessarily a deep theological or psychological exploration as much as I keep questioning why I have purchased what I have and still find no use for them in my D. Min work.

True, we have an amazing ability to rationalize, and I totally agree with you that "collecting" can be a fascination. I am guilty! However, I would urge you to consider that many items you may dismiss as "historical" or "dated" may, very well, be the finest materials available to us for our 21st century ministries. There is nothing new under the sun. All of the issues we deal with in ministry today have been dealt with before us. We should learn from those wise, historical, dated ministers.

I would suggest that very little has been written in the past 100 years that is of more ministerial value than that which which came before.

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 8:02 PM

"I do not, however, understand why one would want to collect devotional materials (especially dated ones) in the pursuit of building ones Logos library."  

Dated?  The best advice I ever received was to read two old books for every new one. 

Surely the "devotional material" that shaped a Wesley or Wilberforce could have some value to me.

Hey, I bought Logos primarily to have the exegetical and technical items.  But I greatly value the historical and classic volumes, too.  That is just my humble opinion.

 

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 8:13 PM

Michael Childs:

...The best advice I ever received was to read two old books for every new one. Surely the "devotional material" that shaped a Wesley or Wilberforce could have some value to me...

Well put.

 

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:06 PM

After perusing several "safe" Christian web sites it appears that the cutting edge debate between Calvin and Arminius holds sway in much of the Evangelical Community.  Wesley's genius of combining Orthodox and English Reformation materials, with a speck of experience, may also be on that cutting edge of theological reflection.  Yet how much value does such works have in a post-modern (or whatever era we are in now) have in a North American context fascinated with the drive to consume massive amounts of product...and how does that affect the purchase of Logos's products if it does? 

It seems to me sometimes that Deepak Chopra has become the voice of our age much more than the old guys arguing over what form of determinism God really uses.  I wonder will one more classic work in a e-book format really answer the deep spiritual questions of those seeking healing through Christian counseling.  Am I spending my money wisely by accumulating a bigger Library?  Not sure but I'm afraid that I am getting to the answer the more items I purchase.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 11:58 PM

ReneAtchley:
Deepak Chopra has become the voice of our age

Perhaps in some circles. But in the circles I know it is a much more mixed bag e.g.:

  • D. T. Suzuki: Mysticism: Christian and Buddhist
  • Meister Eckhart (works)
  • Philokalia
  • Desert Fathers (and Mothers): (any collection)
  • Richard Foster: Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home
  • Alexander Schmemann (most works)
  • Anthony de Mello (works)
  • Alan W. Jones: Soul Making
  • The Way of the Pilgrim (any translation)
  • St. Ephrem the Syrian (works)
  • Gershom Scholem (works)
  • Edmund Jabes (works)
  • Gerard Manley Hopkins (works)
  • Gary A. Anderson: Sin: A History
  • Frederica Mathewes-Green: First Fruits of Prayer (Canon of St. Andrew)
  • Johanna Manley: (works - patristics)

What I see across several denominational lines is an openness to a very broad set of resources combined with a very strong sense of what one believes. But with the primary interest in reading and discussion being on the experiential side rather than the theological side. Which is not to say that the examples listed above aren't heavy on theology - several of them are.

ReneAtchley:
much more than the old guys arguing

Its seems to me that the old guys - especially in the form of St. Vladimir's Seminary Press Popular Patristics Series and Classics of Western Mysticism - are very much back in fashion.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 2:12 AM

ReneAtchley:

I wonder will one more classic work in a e-book format really answer the deep spiritual questions of those seeking healing through Christian counseling.

I wonder why anyone who ministers to people "with deep spiritual questions" "in need of healing" would discount the acquisition and reading of spiritual classics!

So yes, those classic works written by the "old guys" and now available to us in the form of an ebook may, very well, contain the precise antidote to our spiritual woes. I suspect you're aware that these men wrote on a topic or two more than just the Doctrines of Grace.

Are we spending our money wisely? Well if our final goal is to amass a larger library, probably not. But if our goals rise higher than that, then praise God for Community Pricing!

 

Posts 939
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 1:47 PM

It's not the old material that is considered a classic that concerns me. It's the latest, greatest popular works about which I'm skeptical and have to be convinced to buy.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 2952
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:54 PM

Renee,

I respect your opinion.  You are obviously a very thoughtful and intelligent person.

I am a pastor.  The largest population group in my church is young adults in their 20's and 30's.  It is the group that growing.  I find them very hungry for both Bible study and the spiritual classics.  I think it has to do with how the classics are presented. They are looking for reality and passion. They are seeking something real in their spiritual lives.

I wouldn't totally write off the old guys, if I were you.  

God bless.  

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 10:31 AM

Thank you for your kind words Rev. Childs.  Indeed there appears to be a great search for spirituality in the North American context exemplified with such best sellers as Ageless Body, Timeless Mind, The Book of Secrets (Deepak Chopra) and  The Power of Intention (Dr. Wayne Dyer)-best sellers from a quick look at google.  Christian response to such materials go from "well we were reading one of the old guys (Calvin) in the original language when I went to Sunday school" to "well those examples are overstated because here is a list of theologians that seems popular to me".  The change in our culture from a slower text based one to a fast paced multi-media preference is trying to be addressed by Logos with the development of L4 on multiple platforms that especially reach those 20-40 folks.  Along with this change in technology seems to be some a fascination, by some who own L4, with the purchase of huge libraries that can be rationalized by ___________ (fill in whatever reason) which may reflect another cultural preference for consumerism and consumption.  One thread in particular explored, a little, why those people in the congregation/old people/Luddites just wont get with the program and invest large amounts of money in technology so they too can buy Logos products. 

I believe this fascination with technology, size of collections, love of the "old guys", and need for the next great interface has nothing to do with Christianity or spiritual formation.   I can help people in their search for the Kingdom of God, no matter what their age, with a good narrative so that those real people seeking Truth can avoid the bizarre  corruption of the Gospel by theologians like Dyer and Chopra.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with Logos as a product or its use...as usual the problem with theology is theologians and their own fascinations imo.  I think my contributions to this thread is at an end.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 1:25 PM

ReneAtchley:
to "well those examples are overstated because here is a list of theologians that seems popular to me". 

While I agree that the books you list are best-sellers in some circles, that does not mean that they are best sellers in Christian circles. Nor do I see their market as necessarily being seekers of spiritual truths. They provide quick, non-demanding answers to make sense out of the world. During the hippie era in SanFrancisco there were two distinct groups - one that read Lapsang Rampa and Velikovski (everything is true) and one that read the Fifth Patriarch, Tao Te Ching, Philokalia, The Little Prince (trying to find something that is true). I think the same is true to day both within and outside Christianity.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 30 2010 3:23 PM

ReneAtchley:

I can help people in their search for the Kingdom of God, no matter what their age, with a good narrative so that those real people seeking Truth can avoid the bizarre  corruption of the Gospel by theologians like Dyer and Chopra.

I would be happy to read your "good narrative" to see how it compares with the spiritual writings of, say, Owen, Baxter, or Edwards.

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