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Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 10 2017 9:38 AM

[Deleted - accidental duplicate post]

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 7:42 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Disciple of Christ (doc):
And still no email.....

Forwarded to you. 

I have not gotten an email either and I own both a L7 backage and full feature set

Posts 30477
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 7:57 AM

Mattillo:
I have not gotten an email either and I own both a L7 backage and full feature set

...but do you have Logos Now? The email is to notify LN members of a change. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 551
Liam Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 8:25 AM

I had assumed the plan was to correct any major bugs and add the missing features before a general public release. Releasing the web app without sorting out the note sync issues would be a major concern for me. 

Is there any chance of a short term workaround for notes? For example, web notes could be sent to a desktop document called 'web notes'. Similarly, desktop notes could be view in a reread-only format online? I'm no expert in these areas, but perhaps it could be a good stop gap?

EDIT: Upon reflection, I have decided to soften the original language

Carpe verbum.

Posts 607
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 10:13 AM

LMAM, I appreciate your original enthusiasm for the direction we are going.

I'd love to hear more about what you are referring to as major bugs. That feedback can go a long way to help us prioritize work.

We are executing on plans to make significant improvements to notes on the web app first and eventually bring those features to desktop and mobile. At that point all platforms will seamlessly sync. We understand that in the short-term this has the adverse effect of isolating web notes to the web app but solving that problem is prohibitively expensive and doesn't contribute to our larger goals. We are doing our best to maximize our limited time/resources to deliver the most value for our users. If we identify a good way to bridge the two systems, we will surely look into that.

Even with that as the stated plan, your feedback is always appreciated. We rely on user feedback to continually adjust our priorities and reevaluate said plans.

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 11:09 AM

alabama24:

Mattillo:
I have not gotten an email either and I own both a L7 backage and full feature set

...but do you have Logos Now? The email is to notify LN members of a change. 

Ah no I do not... I figured if they were rolling out the web app to all users then all users would get an email on it.  I must have misread something somewhere.  I used to have LN but dropped it.  I do look forward to having this feature back as it can be helpful when away from home.

Posts 551
Liam Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 1:38 PM

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):

LMAM, I appreciate your original enthusiasm for the direction we are going.

I'd love to hear more about what you are referring to as major bugs. That feedback can go a long way to help us prioritize work.

We are executing on plans to make significant improvements to notes on the web app first and eventually bring those features to desktop and mobile. At that point, all platforms will seamlessly sync. We understand that in the short-term this has the adverse effect of isolating web notes to the web app but solving that problem is prohibitively expensive and doesn't contribute to our larger goals. We are doing our best to maximize our limited time/resources to deliver the most value for our users. If we identify a good way to bridge the two systems, we will surely look into that.

Even with that as the stated plan, your feedback is always appreciated. We rely on user feedback to continually adjust our priorities and reevaluate said plans.

Hi Alan, 

Thanks for your reply. The singular problem with internet forums is that they do not possess a mandatory review before posting system, nor an 'are you really sure you want to post this?' warning. On reflection, I have edited my post to soften the language that I used previously... James 1:19-20 is a very prescient motivation. My apologies. 

I think my concern is that receiving the email saying that the web app was heading to the general market sounded as if it was entering a new phase of its life within the Logos ecosystem. Hence my initial enthusiasm (which hasn't gone anywhere I might add). To then discover that it would not ship with a joined up notes system was partly confusingly, and, honestly, partly a bit annoying. I can't help but feel that both of those feelings, and maybe the reactions of others (perhaps) could have been avoided if the initial email also included the details about the upcoming changes to the notes system. Some no doubt would have still gone for the kill shot, but others, myself included, would have afforded you (as in the Logos team) some grace and patience. I don't think that Faithlife has been dishonest in this decision, but a bit of public awareness about what the future held for the web app might have been helpful. I don't know. 

More generally, why keep us in the dark about these things? Why not tell us that the team is working on the notes system, take some feedback to what we, the end user, are looking for and what we might want it to look like? I get that where there are three users there is probably four opinions and that you can't give everyone what they want, but surely some common desires would come to the fore even if they were not all implementable.

At the end of the day, I am a Logos fanboy through and through. It is an incredible tool for my church ministry as an elder, preacher and families worker, but more than that it has been a means of God's grace in my devotional and private study. heck, one of the reasons I'm not going anywhere as a user is that simply can't afford to! Nevertheless, no one likes being kept in the dark, and Christians are notoriously bad at dealing with change, especially when that change is not in the way they expected and/or comes as a surprise. No doubt that is only compounded when there is a financial buy-in involved. 

So I guess the TLDRconclusion is this: please don't keep us in the dark, or allow us to 'go home' with that perception of the company - I/we are on your team.

Carpe verbum.

Posts 607
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 2:15 PM

It's encouraging to know how valuable our software is to you and your various ministries! It never gets old to hear stories like that.

Please understand that it is not our intention to keep anyone in the dark, we strive to operate as openly and transparently as possible. In fact, the forums are vast and it's easy for someone like to me to talk about web notes in one thread and have it go unnoticed in another. For instance, I mentioned some of these things here and Phil discussed it here as well as alluding to it here and in other threads.

We cherish user feedback! That is why we conduct surveys, value conversations with users like this, take feedback via customer service calls, and perform usability tests. We even included feedback mechanisms right within the web app itself (and the team reads every message we receive)!

It is also why we plan to roll out the notes changes incrementally on the web app--we want to improve it along the way with your help before delivering it to everyone. We understand how fundamental notes are to a majority of our users and we want the planned improvements to serve you well.

So, this is an open invitation to reach out with your thoughts/ideas/questions anytime along the way.

Posts 3260
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 3:44 PM

Mattillo:

alabama24:

Mattillo:
I have not gotten an email either and I own both a L7 backage and full feature set

...but do you have Logos Now? The email is to notify LN members of a change. 

Ah no I do not... I figured if they were rolling out the web app to all users then all users would get an email on it.  I must have misread something somewhere.  I used to have LN but dropped it.  I do look forward to having this feature back as it can be helpful when away from home.

Logos 7 base package owners will get an email in early July about the new web access. We wanted to give Logos Now members a heads up so they weren't surprised. We thought it was appropriate to give them advanced warning since it's currently a benefit to being a Logos Now member.

Posts 6004
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 3:56 PM

I have raised concerns a number of times about notes being isolated on the web platform in different threads. A number of FL employees are aware that I have raised these issues. As FL don't want to keep users in the dark, now is the time to make that communication. Relying on forum threads is not adequate enough level of communication.

I have no issues with the development approach as I have said elsewhere and I think the team working on the web app has being doing a great job. Furthermore i don't believe it is the responsibility of the web development team to communicate these risks to all potential users of the web app. The web app team is interacting with users very well. The web app team should be communicating the risks to the appropriate internal stakeholders who are respnsible for communicating with all customers. 

I raise these concerns because I don't want to see any fellow user being caught out by having research they have done for a paper or otherwise being isolated on the web and access to the web servers are down for whatever reason is down and their deadline is looming and FL failed to make users aware of the risk.

I raise these issues because I don't want FL support staff to have to deal with upset customers in this scenario and FL failed to make the users aware of the risk.

I don't want FL to change their plans.

I simply want FL to make open, honest and clear communication to all potential users of the web app that the risk exists till this next phase of notes and highlighting development is complete and annotations are all back on the one platform.

I don't believe I am asking anything unreasonable. Asking a company to make users aware of the risks of using their product before they use the product i would think is a fairly reasonable expectation.

I believe customers using the web app for notes and highlights should be informed of the risk so they can make an informed decision as to how they use the web app for these functions.

i only have the best interests of both FL and its customers at heart. Apologies to anyone who reads my passion and concern as anything else. That has always and always will be my intent on anything I have ever said and will ever say on these forums.

Posts 3992
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 4:21 PM

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):
We are doing our best to maximize our limited time/resources to deliver the most value for our users.

Thanks! I'm grateful that you're focused on rolling out a new notes system, and not wasting time and effort trying to make the new system sync with the old (which will be obsolete).

Thanks also for giving all customers the opportunity to use the new web app, and provide feedback on improvements which will make their way to the desktop and mobile.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 6004
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 12 2017 6:59 PM

Petah I agree with you and am not suggesting they should change what the are doing. I simply believe at this point they have not made it clear to users of the web app their annotations data will be isolated and that if that data is required for academic or vocational needs then they are at risk of being cut off from that data when they might require access to it.

Clear open communication with customers should be a priority when a business asks its users to participate in a beta program. FL have an opportunity to do the right thing by their customers before Juky 1. 

PetahChristian:

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):
We are doing our best to maximize our limited time/resources to deliver the most value for our users.

Thanks! I'm grateful that you're focused on rolling out a new notes system, and not wasting time and effort trying to make the new system sync with the old (which will be obsolete).

Thanks also for giving all customers the opportunity to use the new web app, and provide feedback on improvements which will make their way to the desktop and mobile.

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 6:51 AM

Could you please direct me to the email you are referring to? Is it from "Logos Bible Software Blog?" Those are the only emails I receive from Logos/Faithlife. Are there other emails that I should be getting? Thank you.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 7:05 AM

Dwayne Justice:
Could you please direct me to the email you are referring to?

Are you a Logos Now subscriber? If so, you should have received the email unless you have 1) turned off email notifications or 2) it went into a spam box. 

The heart of the email:

  • The web app will no longer be a LN exclusive, starting July 1
  • LN users will gain access to FL TV until end of July
  • LN users will gain ability to choose a free book (from a list) each month to keep. 
  • If you have questions, call customer service

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 7:35 AM

alabama24:

Dwayne Justice:
Could you please direct me to the email you are referring to?

Are you a Logos Now subscriber? If so, you should have received the email unless you have 1) turned off email notifications or 2) it went into a spam box. 

The heart of the email:

  • The web app will no longer be a LN exclusive, starting July 1
  • LN users will gain access to FL TV until end of July
  • LN users will gain ability to choose a free book (from a list) each month to keep. 
  • If you have questions, call customer service

Yes, Bama, I am a LN subscriber. I must have turned off email notifications. Guess I shouldn't have done that and need to figure out how to undo it. Thank you, sir.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 10:22 AM

Dwayne Justice:
I must have turned off email notifications

  1. Go to https://www.logos.com 
  2. Click on your name in the upper right corner
  3. Click "email preferences"
  4. Scroll through and see what is (or is not) checked. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 10:44 AM

alabama24:

Dwayne Justice:
I must have turned off email notifications

  1. Go to https://www.logos.com 
  2. Click on your name in the upper right corner
  3. Click "email preferences"
  4. Scroll through and see what is (or is not) checked. 

Thanks. I did that and almost everything was selected. There were a couple that were not (the only one I can remember right now is soundfaith) that I did go ahead and select, so now they are all selected with the exception of Verbum. Oddly enough, however, LN was not one of the options.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 12:58 PM

Dwayne Justice:
Oddly enough, however, LN was not one of the options.

I don't think there is a LN mailing list. Rather, someone runs a report and builds an email population based on that attribute. Have you checked your junk mail folder(s)? Without seeing the population and how the report was run, I don't know why you were missed. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 1:39 PM

alabama24:

Dwayne Justice:
Could you please direct me to the email you are referring to?

Are you a Logos Now subscriber? If so, you should have received the email unless you have 1) turned off email notifications or 2) it went into a spam box. 

The heart of the email:

  • The web app will no longer be a LN exclusive, starting July 1
  • LN users will gain access to FL TV until end of July
  • LN users will gain ability to choose a free book (from a list) each month to keep. 
  • If you have questions, call customer service

A free book every month?!? Confused It seems rejoining LN might be an option now.  When does the free book thing start... July?  I'll have to seriously consider coming back if that is the new way of LN

Posts 5046
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 13 2017 1:39 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Mattillo:

alabama24:

Mattillo:
I have not gotten an email either and I own both a L7 backage and full feature set

...but do you have Logos Now? The email is to notify LN members of a change. 

Ah no I do not... I figured if they were rolling out the web app to all users then all users would get an email on it.  I must have misread something somewhere.  I used to have LN but dropped it.  I do look forward to having this feature back as it can be helpful when away from home.

Logos 7 base package owners will get an email in early July about the new web access. We wanted to give Logos Now members a heads up so they weren't surprised. We thought it was appropriate to give them advanced warning since it's currently a benefit to being a Logos Now member.

Thank you sir!

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