BUG: Fault with Basic Search for Latin words from dropdown list

(Test results for version 4.0c Beta 1)

If I do a Basic Search, and type in "g:logos", I can select the correct greek word from the dropdown list. In which case, the search field changes to "greek:λόγος ", which is correct, and works as expected.

HOWEVER, for Latin as follows, it fails.

In Basic Search, type "l:ipso" and select the first from the list, the seach field changes to "l:latin:ipso", which then fails to find anything.

Manually changing the prompt to "latin:ipso" does indeed find content from my library.

(Using "latin:ipso" and selecting the first dropdown item, searches "latin:latin:ipso" which does in fact work correctly, but is clearly not right having a double label)

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Rosie Perera

(Test results for version 4.0c Beta 1)

Hi Jim, thanks for being a beta tester and reporting that problem. Actually, there's a special forum for reporting bugs in the Beta versions. It's called PC Beta and it's a subforum of Logos 4. You have to scroll down to the bottom of the main Logos 4 forum page to find the link to it. Bugs in the beta versions should be reported there as they will be much more likely to be seen by Logos Development. The Logos 4 forum is mostly for user questions on how to use the software, and the volume of posts here is too much for Logos to keep up with so they rely on us MVPs and other users to answer many of the questions.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111335#Comment_111335

Rosie,

Thanks for your reply.

YES - I know there is a forum for the Beta versions, but this BUG REPORT is not for a new Beta feature, but something that is a core function in the V4 product.

It would be helpful if you or someone with an operational Release version could confirm if this fault is present, or not, in the most recent Release version.

If the fault was being reported by someone using a Release version, or you suggesting that too needs to be reported in the Beta Forum too?

I'm a bit frustrated, as there appears to be no clear way to report a BUG and get a known response. E.G.

1) Not a BUG. Operational error, misuse etc ...

2) Confirmed BUG, and assiged a Logos fault ID and tracked until rejected or resolved

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111351#Comment_111351

YES - I know there is a forum for the Beta versions, but this BUG REPORT is not for a new Beta feature, but something that is a core function in the V4 product.

I know, but they are working on fixing things in the 4.0c beta now, not planning any further service releases of V4 that don't come from the 4.0c source fork, as far as I know. So it's helpful to have bugs that can be reproduced in 4.0c Beta 1 reported there. When I was a relatively new user on the forums, I used to get annoyed at another Forum MVP for continually reminding us to post bug reports in the beta forum if we were using the beta version, regardless of whether the bugs were present in older versions or were related to new beta features. But I finally came around to seeing his logic. And indeed, we do seem to get responses faster from Logos folks this way.

It would be helpful if you or someone with an operational Release version could confirm if this fault is present, or not, in the most recent Release version.

Alas, I don't have a Release version anymore. I used to keep a release version on my laptop, but accidentally allowed it to upgrade to 4.0c Beta 1. I don't have time to reinstall 4.0b from scratch, so I'm stuck being in beta on both machines until 4.0c ships, hopefully in the next 8 weeks or so.

If the fault was being reported by someone using a Release version, or you suggesting that too needs to be reported in the Beta Forum too?

No, if it were reported by someone using the Release version, this would be the place for it. And it's fine that you posted it here. I just meant when you report future bugs...

I'm a bit frustrated, as there appears to be no clear way to report a BUG and get a known response. E.G.

1) Not a BUG. Operational error, misuse etc ...

2) Confirmed BUG, and assiged a Logos fault ID and tracked until rejected or resolved

There isn't a quick way to get a response like that. Posting to the forums is a first step. Either one of three things could happen from there:

1) A Logos employee notices it and responds with one of the two options you gave above. Unfortunately they have not been sharing their internal bug tracking numbers with us when they confirm a bug and log it on their internal bug tracking system. But they do at least confirm that they've done that, and they'll often (but not always) come back later and update the thread to tell us when it's been fixed. Melissa Snyder is the main Logos person who trolls the forums for bugs and replies to them. She's terrific, but she is also way overworked. There are not enough people helping out with that task, and the volume of posts on these forums is so high that sometimes they are not responded to for a couple of weeks. Be patient.

2) A Forum user who is also an active wiki editor will notice the bug report and confirm it is a bug and post it to the bug tracking page on the wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Bugs. This gives it a higher chance of being noticed and addressed by Logos in the near future, but they've been still playing catch-up trying to get the "missing features" from Logos 3 implemented in Logos 4 so they sometimes are running behind on checking for bug reports there. But that is a place where bugs do get a standard reply of "by design," "invalid," "confirmed," "fixed," etc. And when a bug is fixed, a Logos employee will post what version number the bug was fixed in.

3) It goes unnoticed for too long a time and you take matters into your own hands and report it on the wiki yourself. It is open for all to edit, but please read the instructions and use the existing format there for bug reports.

If it's any consolation, I too share your frustration that we don't get better response from Logos on bug reports. I worked in the software development industry for many years and as an insider, I was used to using an internal bug tracking database that made sure no issues would fall through the cracks. However for our users, I'm sure they felt the same kind of lack of control/response when they reported bugs through the normal channels (emailing or calling support or posting to a forum). We did have a system of sending out support tracking numbers though. Logos is a younger company than the one I worked for, and they haven't developed such a system yet. They do have a reputation for being much more responsive to their users than the company I worked for was, but they've been flooded with new users since Logos 4 was released and have not been able to keep up their level of service. Much as I love Logos, I must confess that I do think some issues are falling through the cracks that get reported on these forums, and there's not much I can do about it. Now that I'm a Forum MVP I can send email directly to a couple of key people in the company when something needs to be escalated, but I don't want to abuse that privilege or flood them with emails that they won't have time to address. Bob Pritchett, the CEO, is well aware of the bottlenecks and is working hard on hiring new staff to help solve some of the problems.

I confess that I was lazy and tired when I first replied to your bug post. It did look familiar but I didn't take the time to fully "grok" it and go find where I had already reported a similar bug. I'm pretty sure this is a duplicate. Here's the wiki entry for that bug: http://wiki.logos.com/Bug$3a_$22translit$3a$22_gets_duplicated_when_selecting_from_dropdown

It has been languishing on the wiki bug database for nearly three months, and I suspect it's pretty low priority for them with everything else they've got on their plate, since it is only a minor problem and you can still accomplish the search you intended even with the double label.

Hope that makes up for my shorter reply before. I'm not sure it will give you any more confidence in the bug reporting process in general though. I'm just a volunteer doing this on my own time, and I don't always have time to keep up with the forums either.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111358#Comment_111358

Rosie,

I want to thank you for your long and detailed reply.

I must admit, I was a big grumpy at your first reply as it told me nothing new, and did not in any way address my concern, nor confirm the results fail for your installation also.

Its always a danger to fire off quick replies. They can be taken wrong, and people can read ill intent, when there is none.

The problem I have with fault reporting is that we have email addresses, this forum, the other forums, the Wiki, the Bugs page, and so it goes ...

And then, as you comment, a disconnect with the internal Logos systems for tracking, so we cant see that something has been picked up or not, and resolved or not.

I would love to work for Logos for a while, and implement such a system if there is not already one. One of many problems with that, I live in the wrong country, half a world away, so cant see that happening.

Yes, I have seen many of the postings from Bob and understand he appears to be making every effort to get support up to the standards he desires.

It breaks my heart to see some the forum postings ripping in Logos staff or Bob. I have felt many times I wanted to reach out and give him a hug, if you can understand what I mean by that.

I love the Logos 4 product I have, and what it allows me to do. Mostly I have been reading the News Groups and Forum posting for over 6 mths, without saying anything. I have purchased a significant base product and then upgrades and extra products, including some I already had in Pradis. I understand the feeling when someone posts that they have spent a large amount on Logos products and expect it/them to work etc.

I once scoped, then designed, then developed (database application), then ran a Helpdesk providing 3rd level support for UNIX Hardware and software issues. I was one of two staff that ran the centre. We tracked and OWNED every Incident that we received. They always got a unique number assigned, and we KEPT ownership of every Incident until they got resolved and then closed (after review). Even if it was handed off to some other staff member, department or even another company to resolve, we tracked it until we confirmed the customer would let us close it. We NEVER gave anything away. We always owned it to the end.

The point of the unique Incident Number was that you could write it all over the place. In this context, hand it out on a phone call, post it to the forum, include it on the bugs database, note it in the list of things an update release addresses etc.

In house, I wrote that number (e.g. Incident 001234) on printouts, in emails, pager messages etc as it was a sure way of what was being talked about.

There, I write too much and must stop now.

I still wish this Latin search feature to be resolved in due course. All else is my rantings ...

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111362#Comment_111362

Its always a danger to fire off quick replies. They can be taken wrong, and people can read ill intent, when there is none.

You're right, and I should have known better. I plead my tiredness as my excuse, but that's my own fault for staying up too late trying to answer every single new post that has shown up on the forums before I go to bed! (It's now 4AM in my time zone.) Sometimes I stupidly think that any answer is better than none, so I fire off a quick one without taking the time to make it helpful. Another problem with a quick but substanceless answer (which I should have known better about too) is that it bumps up the reply count from 0 to 1, so people looking for unanswered messages on the forums might think this one has been answered already and overlook it. So again, I'm sorry. Thanks for your gracious reply.

The problem I have with fault reporting is that we have email addresses, this forum, the other forums, the Wiki, the Bugs page, and so it goes ...

And then, as you comment, a disconnect with the internal Logos systems for tracking, so we cant see that something has been picked up or not, and resolved or not.

I would love to work for Logos for a while, and implement such a system if there is not already one.

Oh, I wish you would! It sounds like you know how to put good systems and processes in place, something Logos desperately needs. I'm sure they do have an internal bug database, but they have not made it transparent to us. I presume it's not due to any intentionally secrecy, but just the time it would take them to manually copy bug numbers from there and post them to the forum to let us know when a bug has been recorded in it. They don't have an automated system in place which would solve this problem.

It breaks my heart to see some the forum postings ripping in Logos staff or Bob. I have felt many times I wanted to reach out and give him a hug, if you can understand what I mean by that.

Yes, I do understand, and I feel the same way. He's got pretty thick skin, but it must wear him out after a while hearing all the negativity. The only thing that helps is the complaints are equally matched by kudos which I'm sure warm his heart.

I once scoped, then designed, then developed (database application), then ran a Helpdesk providing 3rd level support for UNIX Hardware and software issues. I was one of two staff that ran the centre. We tracked and OWNED every Incident that we received. They always got a unique number assigned, and we KEPT ownership of every Incident until they got resolved and then closed (after review). Even if it was handed off to some other staff member, department or even another company to resolve, we tracked it until we confirmed the customer would let us close it. We NEVER gave anything away. We always owned it to the end.

That sounds great and is as it should be all the time. If only...!

I should put a bug in Bob's ear to recruit you. I know you live in another country, but that's a hurdle that could be gotten over. [:)]

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111368#Comment_111368

Rosie,

I almost fear to add something new. Please go get some sleep.

Yes, I have seem many of the answers, advise, testing etc that you add to these forums. To keep this short (so you can sleep), Thank You.

Goodnight.

ZZZ zzz

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111371#Comment_111371

I am not sure if this is still a question or not, but the original question about typing l:ipso and it returns l:latin:ipso DOES happen with 4.0b SR-1, the production release.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111376#Comment_111376

Dominick,

Yes - it was still a question I wished to hear an answer about. Thank You.

Rosie has a valid point about Beta stuff in the Beta forum but it seems to me to be a core feature so I posted here.

If Logos uses some kind of priority codes, per example, I think this bug is at the low end (C), but if it makes it to the programmers list, it will get resolved in due course.

The other good thing, prior to a fix, is when there is a simple work-around, others can find these answers if they search on keywords and maybe they can find there is already some answers.

OFF TOPIC:

Some off-the-top-of-head Priority Codes:

A: Critical Failure impacting customers, and preventing use of all or important parts of the core features.

B: Significant Faults limiting important features.

C: Minor Impacts, Typically valid work-arounds are possible.

Cosmetic issues or typos in menus etc. Need to be addressed when the rest of the world is fixed.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/111358#Comment_111358

Melissa Snyder is the main Logos person who trolls the forums for bugs and replies to them. She's terrific, but she is also way overworked. There are not enough people helping out with that task, and the volume of posts on these forums is so high that sometimes they are not responded to for a couple of weeks.

I forgot about George Allakhverdyan, another Logos employee who responds to bug reports on the forums. He's great, too.