Logos for Catholics is not worth the while when staging outside the USA and Canada

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Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jul 9 2017 11:35 AM

One should seriously consider not to invest in the logos software if you are a Catholic and residing outside the US and Canada. Most of the key Catholic resources have licencing issues. The other problem is when a Catholic resource is available, the reference links that support the resources are not available to purchase due to licencing limitations. it is better to buy these resources from other suppliers that cost a fraction of the price. Logos claims you pay specificly for the refernce links and the integration bits. If you cannot purchase these resources for these reference links, one could ask what are you paying for as nothing is avaible. You will waste your money buying from logos.

Posts 906
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 9 2017 12:53 PM

Can you list some specific resources?

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 9 2017 1:36 PM

The New Jerusalem Bible is the most glaring one I can think of...

Also Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections, the North American version is only one offered for individual sale.

-dan

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 9 2017 2:09 PM

Dan Francis:
Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections

which is weird, but the international version is contained in all the Verbum packages from Starter up.

As an international customer interested in the catholic offerings of Logos (my largest and most expensive base packages are from the Verbum line of products) I don't feel that it's not worth wile. Non-US customers are feeling frustrated sometimes - but that is not specific to catholic products, it happens as well with protestant books e.g. on the new perspective on Paul. Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing (and that the CC who claims to be the only international organization, even more global than Coca Cola, splits up publishing rights of its core publication to national dioceses is a sign of very poor judgement).

Moreover I see Faithlife as going beyond that would be normal business practice in licencing the same product twice to be able to give it to the non-North American customers.  

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 9 2017 4:16 PM

NB.Mick:
Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing

Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them. Faithlife has ultimately seen the United States as their primary customer and likely rightly so, but that narrow focus means they miss out most of their potential customers when a produced is restricted. The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.

-dan

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 12:13 AM

Dan Francis:
Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them.

Very interesting. Hmm

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 5095
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 3:23 AM

Dan Francis:

NB.Mick:
Basically Faithlife can't do anything about the weird parochialisms that plague global publishing

Yes they can, Accordance has published the CCC years before it was available in Logos and it has always been available globally as has the NJB, it takes time and multiple contracts but world wide rights can be gained if one wants to take the time to get them. Faithlife has ultimately seen the United States as their primary customer and likely rightly so, but that narrow focus means they miss out most of their potential customers when a produced is restricted. The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.

-dan

Agrees they can do something. What we don't see is whether they are actually doing anything and I understand thsy are not going to tell us nor should they tell us of behind the scenes negotiations with publishers. Unfortunately as customers that leave us with a sense of FL not doing enough whether th is true or  not.

Posts 3086
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 5:36 AM

Diederick Johannes Putter:
One should seriously consider not to invest in the logos software if you are a Catholic and residing outside the US and Canada. Most of the key Catholic resources have licencing issues.

On the contrary, hardly any Catholic resources have licensing restrictions.

Posts 3086
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 5:43 AM

Dan Francis:
The CCC for example at one time could not be sold outside the US alone, then they gained North America wide rights and eventually world wide rights but only in packages for whatever reason.

As I recall, as long as Verbum packages have existed, the USCCB's American edition of the CCC has been available in both Canada and the USA, although sometimes Canada was not listed in marketing materials. More recently, Faithlife has licensed the LEV English edition of the CCC, which does not have some of the features that the USCCB had added for their edition. The LEV's English edition is the 'default' English edition worldwide and thus FL can sell it worldwide. Unfortunately, FL has not yet offered it outside of a base package/library.

Posts 9
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 7:24 AM

"Also Catechism of the Catholic Church is not for sale outside of base collections, the North American version is only one offered for individual sale."

I have no base package and Accordance is my primary software and will remain so until Verbum offers CCC and NJB.

Although CCC (not NJB) is listed in all base packages with no mention of restrictions, I note that the pop-up box that produces details of each item produces nothing for the CCC. Does anyone outside North America actually have the CCC in a base package. 

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 9:55 AM

CCC is available from FL in 2 version North American and International... the international one is in the Verbum base packages and virtually identical except for one index in the us version and one line on the title page.

-dan

For a bit more on the CCC situation.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/135783/901629.aspx#901629

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 10 2017 9:57 AM

David Miller:

Although CCC (not NJB) is listed in all base packages with no mention of restrictions, I note that the pop-up box that produces details of each item produces nothing for the CCC. Does anyone outside North America actually have the CCC in a base package. 

I have the international CCC in Verbum. It works perfectly, and I've never had a problem with it. Pop-ups work just fine. Where do you see it not working correctly?

Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 3:14 AM

I have considered getting the Verbum package to resolve my issue to have access to the CCC and the Jerusalem bible, but one of the agents from logos has confirmed that due to the licencing issues on these resources, I still will not be able to purchase them. As I am residing in South Africa, I'm not sure if this only applies to our country. 

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 6:34 AM

They would know best but while NJB is NA only, I had been under the impression CCC international was globally available. 

-dan

Posts 3086
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 2:30 PM

The international edition of the CCC is globally available. The sales agent is wrong.

Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 9:59 PM

This is great, except that the below resource is still restricted:

https://www.logos.com/product/17215/catechism-of-the-catholic-church

Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 10:03 PM

This seems to be the only resource that is used in most other resources for reference links.

Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 10:10 PM

Logos is not going to engage with the client to remove these restrictions. It is awkward why they would use this resource as a reference in so many other resources. I still stand to my point as mentioned in the beginning, it is not worth the while for international Catholic customers to acquire logos due to all these restrictions.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 11:54 PM

Diederick Johannes Putter:

This (the US edition of CCC) seems to be the only resource that is used in most other resources for reference links.

I don't think so. Links to the CCC would typically be 'datatype' links that reference a location in the CCC by number - this will open the highest prioritized Edition of it in your library. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 22
Diederick Putter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 12:03 AM

Smile

It will be great if there is another resource available instead of the one mentioned earlier that will work for the datalinks and that can be purchased outside the US and Canada. 

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