What happened to citations?!

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Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 13 2017 12:21 PM

I understand the issue with the new Microsoft not communicating correctly with LOGOS so we have to do the whole right-click, paste as unformatted text, deal. However, now all of a sudden when I paste something from Logos to word, the page number no longer shows up in the citation. Since the books in Logos normally do not show page numbers, how am I supposed to accurately cite my sources with out page numbers?! Has anybody found a fix for this? Thank you.

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Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 12:45 PM

For Vyrso books, they will often not have page numbers. But for Logos books, often they do, but not always. Make sure your footnotes format hasn't changed (perhaps you are unknowingly now exporting to a format that doesn't include page numbers?? IDK.).

I usually just use "n.p." when I come across this situation, or use a section heading or milestone as my reference point, much like is acceptable with dictionary entries.

Do you have a few specific entries you can post. I can try to replicate the entries and see if I have page numbers. Chances are that it's just resources that do not include page numbers, though.

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 4:22 PM

Myke Harbuck:

For Vyrso books, they will often not have page numbers. But for Logos books, often they do, but not always. Make sure your footnotes format hasn't changed (perhaps you are unknowingly now exporting to a format that doesn't include page numbers?? IDK.).

I usually just use "n.p." when I come across this situation, or use a section heading or milestone as my reference point, much like is acceptable with dictionary entries.

Do you have a few specific entries you can post. I can try to replicate the entries and see if I have page numbers. Chances are that it's just resources that do not include page numbers, though.

Most of the references I am trying to use are from Vyrso books, so that is probably the problem. I never realized that happened. I have been writing college papers using Logos for years, and I don't remember this ever being a problem until recently. I am currently writing a paper for my Christian ethics class on Christian's use of social media. As  you can imagine, there are not many (if any) Logos resources that touch on that subject, so I am using mostly Vyrso resources. If you are interested, here is my initial bibliography:

Ethics Paper Bibliography

Anderson, Matthew Lee, Terence Armentano, Jason D. Baker, Todd Bolsinger, Joe Carter, Matthew Eppinette, Hugh Hewitt, et al. The New Media Frontier: Blogging, Vlogging, and Podcasting for Christ. Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2008.

Birdsong, Toni, and Tami Heim. @stickyjesus: How to Live out Your Faith Online. Nashville: Abingdon Press, 2012.

Bourgeois, David T. Ministry in the Digital Age: Strategies and Best Practices for a Post-Website World. Westmont, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2013.

Von Buseck, Craig. Netcasters. Nashville: B&H, 2010.

campbell, Marcus D. Sr. THE EFFECTIVE AND TRANSFORMATIVE IMPACTS OF MEDIA MINISTRY ON LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES, n.d.

Challies, Tim. The next Story: Faith, Friends, Family, and the Digital World. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2015.

Courtney, Vicki. Logged on and Tuned out. Nashville: B&H, 2007.

Detweiler, Craig. iGods: How Technology Shapes Our Spiritual and Social Lives. Grand Rapids, MI: Brazos Press, 2013.

Drescher, Elizabeth, and Keith Anderson. Click 2 Save: The Digital Ministry Bible. New York, NY: Open Road, 2012.

Estes, Douglas. Simchurch: Being the Church in the Virtual World. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2009.

Friesen, Dwight J., and Leonard Sweet. Thy Kingdom Connected: What the Church Can Learn from Facebook, the Internet, and Other Networks. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2009.

Griffin, Joshua, and Doug Fields. 99 Thoughts for Small Group Leaders: Tips for Rookies & Veterans on Leading Youth Ministry Small Groups. Edited by Matt McGill. Loveland, CO: Group Publishing, 2010.

Gunton, Colin E., King’s College (University of London). Research Institute in Systematic Theology. The Theology of Reconciliation. London;  New York: T&T Clark, 2003.

Hipps, Shane. Flickering Pixels: How Technology Shapes Your Faith. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2009.

Hunt, June. Biblical Counseling Keys on Employment: Be Extraordinary among the Ordinary. Dallas, TX: Hope For The Heart, 2008.

Jantz, Gregory L., PhD McMurray, and Ann McMurray. Hooked: The Pitfalls of Media, Technology and Social Networking. Lake Mary, FL: Charisma House, 2012.

Marley, Kort. Navigating the Digital Sea: Gospel Guidance for Social Media. Brenham, TX: Lucid Books, 2016.

McKee, Jonathan, and Thomas W. McKee. The New Breed: Understanding and Equipping the 21st Century Volunteer. Edited by Rob Cunningham. Second Edition. Loveland, CO: Group Publishing, 2012.

Murphy, Matt, and Brad Widstrom. 99 Thoughts on Caring for Your Youth Group: From Coffee Shop Counseling to Crisis Care. Edited by Rob Cunningham. Loveland, CO: Group Publishing, 2012.

Rice, Jesse. The Church of Facebook: How the Hyperconnected Are Redefining Community. Colorado Springs, CO: David C Cook, 2009.

Stenzel, Pam, and Melissa Nesdahl. Who’s in Your Social Network? Understanding the Risks Associated with Modern Media and Social Networking and How It Can Impact Your Character and Relationships. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2012.

Taylor, Barry, Robert Johnston, and William A. Dyrness. Entertainment Theology: New-Edge Spirituality in a Digital Democracy. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2008.

Tennant, Kyle. Unfriend Yourself: Three Days to Detox, Discern, and Decide about Social Media. Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2012.

Thompson, Deanna A. The Virtual Body of Christ in a Suffering World. Nashville: Abingdon Press, 2016.

Vassallo, Wanda. Church Communications Handbook: A Complete Guide to Developing a Strategy, Using Technology, Writing Effectively, Reaching the Unchurched. Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Resources, 1998.

Willard, Timothy D., and Jason Locy. Veneer: Living Deeply in a Surface Society. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011.

Wise, Justin. The Social Church: A Theology of Digital Communication. Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2014.

Christianity Today. Carol Stream, IL: Christianity Today International, 2007.

Christianity Today. Carol Stream, IL: Christianity Today International, 2010.


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Posts 1486
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 8:12 PM

I'm sorry that I missed what you were saying earlier, but bibliographic entries usually do not include page numbers; only footnotes (Chicago, Turabian, etc) or parenthetical entries (MLA, etc) will include page numbers. This is most often omitted in bibliographies or works cited. I can't think of a style that would include page numbers in the bibliography....although I am only familiar with Chicago, Turabian, and MLA mostly. 

As for your Christianity Today source, the footnote does actually include the page number:   Christianity Today (Carol Stream, IL: Christianity Today International, 2007), 11.

However, the author, article name, and issue number are missing from the citation footnote and bibliography. Not sure why, since it is a Logos edition and not a Vyrso edition. 

Again, note that, even in footnotes, you won't get the page numbers for most Vyrso books since they are not shipped with page numbers. I usually have to find the page number from Amazon. Crappy, I know. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 8:37 PM

Myke Harbuck:

I'm sorry that I missed what you were saying earlier, but bibliographic entries usually do not include page numbers; only footnotes (Chicago, Turabian, etc) or parenthetical entries (MLA, etc) will include page numbers. This is most often omitted in bibliographies or works cited. I can't think of a style that would include page numbers in the bibliography....although I am only familiar with Chicago, Turabian, and MLA mostly. 

As for your Christianity Today source, the footnote does actually include the page number:   Christianity Today (Carol Stream, IL: Christianity Today International, 2007), 11.

However, the author, article name, and issue number are missing from the citation footnote and bibliography. Not sure why, since it is a Logos edition and not a Vyrso edition. 

Again, note that, even in footnotes, you won't get the page numbers for most Vyrso books since they are not shipped with page numbers. I usually have to find the page number from Amazon. Crappy, I know. 

Yeah, in my original post I was referring to footnotes, not my bibliography. I was just giving my bibliography because it was the easiest way to give you an idea of the kinds of resources I am using for the paper. You mention using Amazon for page numbers. How does that work? Do you just have to hope that the page number you are using is in the "sneak peak," Or is there a more sure fire way to get that information? Thank you for your help, sir. 

P.S. we do use Turabian at Wayland. I use to find the formatting very difficult, but I am pretty much used to it by now.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 9:23 PM

Sometimes you can use the "look inside" feature of amazon or google books to find page numbers. With that said, you should inquire of your instructor how to cite sources w/o page numbers. 

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 14 2017 9:15 AM

Dwayne Justice:
we do use Turabian at Wayland. I use to find the formatting very difficult, but I am pretty much used to it by now.

As Alabama said, check with your prof regarding your school's style guide. I have found if I "bring a solution" and ask if it is acceptable, I get a quicker reply than "I'll check on it and get back with you."

I've found that several Turabian resources report that page numbers are optional when citing Ebooks.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/turabian/turabian_citationguide.html reports:

Book published electronically

If a book is available in more than one format, cite the version you consulted. For books consulted online, include an access date and a URL. If you consulted the book in a library or commercial database, you may give the name of the database instead of a URL. If no fixed page numbers are available, you can include a section title or a chapter or other number.

1. Isabel Wilkerson, The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration (New York: Vintage, 2010), 183-84, Kindle.

2. Philip B. Kurland and Ralph Lerner, eds., The Founders' Constitution (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1987), chap. 10, doc. 19, accessed October 15, 2011, http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/. 3. Joseph P. Quinlan, The Last Economic Superpower: The Retreat of Globalization, the End of American Dominance, and What We Can Do about It (New York: McGraw-Hill, 2010), 211, accessed December 8, 2012, ProQuest Ebrary. 4. Wilkerson, Warmth of Other Suns, 401. 5. Kurland and Lerner, Founders' Constitution. 6. Quinlan, Last Economic Superpower, 88.

Wilkerson, Isabel. The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration. New York: Vintage, 2010. Kindle.

Kurland, Philip B., and Ralph Lerner, eds. The Founders' Constitution. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1987. Accessed October 15, 2011. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/. Quinlan, Joseph P. The Last Economic Superpower: The Retreat of Globalization, the End of American Dominance, and What We Can Do about It. New York: McGraw-Hill, 2010. Accessed December 8, 2012. ProQuest Ebrary. http://library.edgewood.edu/chicago-style/electronic says:

Electronic Resources

  • Give the DOI when it is available instead of a URL. If no DOI is available, list the URL as a substitute. [14.6]
  • URL's may change and the reader should have enough information to find the source through an Internet search.
  • Where material is time sensitive or likely to be edited and changed, give the access date in parentheses in the bibliography.
  • If page numbers are not available, list section or chapter headings as substitutes.
  • For items cited directly from the internet, access dates are not required unless no date of publication can be determined from the source [14.7]
  • In MS Word: Right click on the URL and select Remove Hyperlink to eliminate the underscore and active link from your document.
  • For short form notes see examples from the Periodicals (print) page.

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Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 14 2017 9:55 AM

Very helpful information, guys! Thank you all very much!

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Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 3 2018 11:58 AM

!!!!!!!!!!SOLVED!!!!!!!!!! Whether it was a Logos or a Microsoft fix, I do not know, but as I was writing a paper for school today, the automatic citations were working again. Whatever team solved this pain in the neck problem, THANK YOU! 

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Posts 1032
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 3 2018 12:24 PM

Dwayne Justice:

!!!!!!!!!!SOLVED!!!!!!!!!! Whether it was a Logos or a Microsoft fix, I do not know, but as I was writing a paper for school today, the automatic citations were working again. Whatever team solved this pain in the neck problem, THANK YOU! 

It was on Microsoft's end

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/therealkpang

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