BUG: CBV [VerseNum] in Header

I have the following Style that I tried in CPV. (In response to this question: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/14727.aspx )

%NoRedLetter
%NoFootnotes
%NoCitation

=Header
[FullBookName] [ChapterNum]. [VerseNum] ([Version])
=ForEachVerse
[VerseText]

=Footer

The [VerseNum] tag in the Header doesn't work. The tag works if I add it to the body.

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Comments

MJ. Smith

Well documented. Have you added it to the wiki?

Rosie Perera

The [VerseNum] tag in the Header doesn't work. The tag works if I add it to the body.

Ditto for [FullVerseRef] and [ShortVerseRef]. I don't think they were ever intended to work in the header; these three are each verse-by-verse versions of the reference info. See this excerpt from the wiki:

Replacement tokens:

[FullPassageRef]	e.g., John 3:16-18
[ShortPassageRef]	e.g., Jn 3:16-18
[FullBookName]	e.g., John
[ShortBookName]	e.g., Jn
[ChapterNum]	e.g., 3
[VerseNum]*	e.g., 16
[FullVerseRef]*	e.g., John 3:16
[ShortVerseRef]*	e.g., Jn 3:16
[Version]	e.g., ESV
[VerseText]*	e.g., For God so loved ...

*Limited functionality can be used in “ForEachVerse” only cannot be used in header or footer

----------------------

The point is, you have FullPassageRef for use in the header, and FullVerseRef is for just one verse (in case you wanted to repeat that label for each verse in a passage that covers several verses). So FullVerseRef doesn't need to work in the header. Ditto for ShortPassageRef vs. ShortVerseRef. Probably they were thinking that VerseNum also didn't make sense in the header, but the question in that thread you quoted seems to have come up with a legitimate reason why you might want to use the VerseNum in the header. However that token is replaced by only one verse number. Even if it could be expanded to doing verse ranges (e.g., 16-18), you wouldn't be able to construct a valid syntax that would do the right thing if your passage spanned across multiple chapters, e.g., John 7:53 - 8:11. What would you use for syntax? [FullBookName] [ChapterNum].[VerseNum] - ... ? That wouldn't cut it.

Thus, I think what they really need to do instead of (or perhaps in addition to) making VerseNum work in the header is add a way to set the Separator.

Also, if I wanted to use the reference format where you superscript the verse number after the chapter, the format a couple of my professors used, I wouldn't be able to do it properly in the header with the way the functionality exists today. There is simply no way to construct a syntax that would produce this in the header for the above mentioned passage: John 7⁵³ - 8¹¹(though I have verified that the syntax does work in the header; it's just useless if you can't separate out the beginning chapter/verse from the ending chapter/verse using replacement tokens). Thus maybe we need four more tokens: BeginningChapterNum, BeginningVerseNum, EndingChapterNum, and EndingVerseNum.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112634#Comment_112634

... maybe we need four more tokens: BeginningChapterNum, BeginningVerseNum, EndingChapterNum, and EndingVerseNum.

Rosie,

YES - but then we would want three extra tags, that would only apply its contents when its own case applies:

<SingleVerse>[ChapterNum]:[VerseNum]</SingleVerse><MultiVerse>[ChapterNum]:[BeginningVerseNum] - [EndingVerseNum</MultiVerse><MultiChapter>[BeginningChapterNum]:[BeginningVerseNum] - [EndingChapterNum]:[EndingVerseNum]</MultiChapter>

The pharsing engine would have to work out when to process anything inside the 3 new tags, based on the range it gets handed (single verse, verse range, chapter range).

There is a whole new problem if we pass it all of Jude. I just tried the current template I was working with, and [ChapterNum] is NOT set to 1. Its a blank, so my verses get tagged with Jud :1 etc.

The solution would be another range tag, <SingleChapterBook>[BookName] [VerseNumber]</SingleChapterBook> that would have to only get used when the source content is from a single-chapter book.

Clearly, the pharsing for all this becomes a bigger task that could get out of hand if they attempted to encode all the stuff we could dream up.

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112634#Comment_112634

Ditto for [FullVerseRef] and [ShortVerseRef]. I don't think they were ever intended to work in the header; these three are each verse-by-verse versions of the reference info. See this excerpt from the wiki:

Thanks for the detailed explanation Rosie.

Given various the various reasons why using [VerseNum] in the Header area is not necessarily a good idea I would suggest/hope/want Logos to add the other verse annotation styles i.e. John 7.53 and John 7⁵³since these are very common styles, especially outside of the US. OR, the tokens you suggested.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112634#Comment_112634

*Limited functionality can be used in “ForEachVerse” only cannot be used in header or footer

My first though is who wrote the wiki when the L4 Help does not reflect this caveat? It may simply reflect what we have observed rather than design intent....

But I can see why some tokens would not be workable in the Header/Footer, so the original request might be satisfied with:

%Separator=SeparatorCharacter <default :>

for use with [xxxPassageRef]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112699#Comment_112699

*Limited functionality can be used in “ForEachVerse” only cannot be used in header or footer

My first though is who wrote the wiki when the L4 Help does not reflect this caveat? It may simply reflect what we have observed rather than design intent....

I wondered the same. Someone named Josh wrote the original wiki entry with those asterisks in it. I noticed that three of the asterisks were no longer accurate since Logos added the ability to parse [FullBookName], [ShortBookName], and [ChapterNum] in the header. So I edited the wiki entry and removed them.

But I can see why some tokens would not be workable in the Header/Footer, so the original request might be satisfied with:

%Separator=SeparatorCharacter <default :>

for use with [xxxPassageRef]

Yes, that would be good. And it should work with [xxxVerseRef] too.

Melissa Snyder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/112634#Comment_112634

This had been reported and has now been closed by design. The consensus is that the other replacement tokens will not be supported in header and footer text. The thinking is that [FullPassageRef] and [ShortPassageRef] make more sense in that context than [FullVerseRef] and [ShortVerseRef]. And [VerseNum] is not supported because ranges cannot be reasonably rendered. An example: John 1:50-2:2. Rendering "50-2" is not useful.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119109#Comment_119109

This had been reported and has now been closed by design. The consensus is that the other replacement tokens will not be supported in header and footer text.

I think we had also reached that decision!

But could the design team now consider the original request at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/14727.aspx?PageIndex=1 for a period as a separator, where I had proposed

%Separator=SeparatorCharacter <default :>

to allow John 1.2-4 instead of John 1:2-4

Melissa Snyder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119244#Comment_119244

But could the design team now consider the original request at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/14727.aspx?PageIndex=1 for a period as a separator, where I had proposed

%Separator=SeparatorCharacter <default :>

to allow John 1.2-4 instead of John 1:2-4

Request submitted.

Update: This is by design and won't be changed.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/119862#Comment_119862

Update: This is by design and won't be changed.

I'll try again in a few months[:)]

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/120242#Comment_120242

I'll try again in a few months

Just thinking ... you might be able to use some kind of Macro in Word etc, to find and make these changes for you ...

Not really what you are asking here, but I've been thinking of writing a tiny .NET Application that hooks all updates into the Clipboard, and looks for anything from Logos4, and does selective automatic reformatting, then paste it back to the clipboard. All done in the blink of an eye.

It would then need some kind of UI, or an XML file or something to drive its rules of what to touch, and what to leave alone.

I fear it could be a much larger task than I care, but something I might be inspired to explore. Just saying ...

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/120242#Comment_120242

I'll try again in a few months

If I had any votes left, I'd support you on user voice.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/120247#Comment_120247

Thanks Jim and Martha

It seemed a simple enough change but it was to satisfy someone else's request.