Haven't seen Bob post on the forums for a month now... Wondering if everything is OK.
Peter
Follow him (and other FL crew) on Twitter.
I'm still here -- thanks for asking! :-)
I wish I had a really good excuse for being less present in the forums, but I'm afraid it's mostly meetings... the goods news is, those meetings have been about growing our team, getting new people oriented, ensuring a unified vision, and building an incredible platform to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible.
Phil Gons has taken the lead on Bible Study Products (Logos desktop, mobile, web, Mobile Ed, etc.) and Jim Straatman is leading our Church Products (Proclaim, Ministry Tracker (acquired this year), and lots-more-to-come). Product innovation and strategic vision is my core area, so this past year most of my attention has gone to the new church products. Most of that work isn't "visible outside the building", but will be soon.
I'm super-excited about this, because we've been building platforms/laying-groundwork for many years, and it's going to come together not only as an incredible tool for handling many administrative tasks in a church, but as a way to facilitate and encourage Bible engagement in the congregation.
(With that said, I am still involved in the product vision for Logos 8... there are still lots of exciting new things to come!)
Here are just a few of the things that I've been involved in recently. (Of course, by involved I mean I instigated or helped plan or review... the hard work of execution has been done by our incredible team. I just go to meetings!)
This is only part of the list... and while it looks like a lot of different things, it's all part of a unified vision: to use technology to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible.
We are often working on that goal from the bottom up, building the foundation in pieces before the unified vision can be seen. But there is a unified vision, and we're very excited to be sharing it with you in the coming months.
-- Bob
Bob,
Thanks for the updates. Keep up the good work.
How is your wife doing?
Edwin Bowden
Audra is back to 'watch and wait' after her clear scan post-chemo, but has suffered skin cancer (apparently common post-chemo for lymphoma) and some infections (which we think are related to overall weakness/immune system). We're thankful that there's no more chemo on the horizon right now, and praying for continued restoration of strength. Overall she's much better and going in the right direction! Thanks for asking...
praying for continued restoration of strength
Joining with you.
Overall she's much better and going in the right direction!
Great to hear.
... praying for continued restoration of strength
+1 [Y] Praying that includes Joy of the Lord being awesome strength for every believer [:D]
+1 [Y] Rejoicing [:D]
Keep Smiling [:)]
Thanks for the updates on Faithlife and Audra, Bob!
You can't get journals within the software right yet your taking on a print journal ?
Hi Bob;
Good to hear that Audra is doing fine. Renewed strength comes after the process. Keeping her and you in prayer.
Is the problem that we 'can't get them right' (in which case please do tell me how we can improve them), or that we don't have all the journals you want yet, which isn't a competency issue as much as a negotiation / rights / expenses issue. (Some of the publishers simply won't license them to us at this point; others have onerous costs.)
In which case, making our own journal would be even more logically consistent. :-)
You can see from the other threads that the journals the past 4 years have been a fiasco. There is not regular communication. Promises are not kept. Quantity and availability has gone down. Smaller bundles are gone. You have lost revenue from many loyal customers going to the Galaxie subscription. And there still seems to be no shift in Logos' journal strategy.
I think wading into your own journal would be dangerous at best and foolhardy. It seems that there are more projects or ideas before there is focus on the current needs. Create a journal czar and get that fixed. And then maybe get a QA czar. Many, many links need to be corrected and updated based on new works coming into Logos. Hyperlinking is the hallmark of Logos and its main selling point, but when those links haven't/won't be updated, what good is the feature?
Well said Everett.
Clearly Bob, that you even have to ask what the issue is with journals shows you are out of touch with customers. I genuinely appreciate on a personal level your family is, as it should be, your number one priority. So not keeping up with all forum activity is understandable. But journals have been an ongoing issue of broken promises by FL ever since FL said they could do it better than Galaxie and if you need us to tell you what the problem is at this point in time you clearly have internal communication issues within as your staff must not have kept you fully informed of the disappointment of your customers.
Suggesting that starting a print journal aimed at seminary professors is the solution to the lack of journals we used to be able to access in Logod but can no longer only reinforces you are out of touch with customers and instead of running off focussing on all these side projects that are not core to Logos Bible Software you need to get your hands back into that core business. Are you aware of the growing concern and disfaction with the fact that dedpite as customers we still pay premium prices for resources the level of tagging and linking in these resources s dropping off? Or are your team not communicating with you on this topic ?
In fairness, I know part of the challenges are to do with licensing and that has changed even in the last few years. I seem to recall BAR went their own way to no fault of Logos and I think The Masters Seminary Journey did as well along with a hand full of others. Logos can't be held responsible for that and we as users need to direct our feedback to these entities directly. I personally expressed my disappointment directly to BAR and even tried to fall in love with their replacement web service to no avail.
So what is the core issue of these threads over so many years? Journal lovers had grown to look forward to a bundle update at the end of each year with Galaxie. It was dead easy... for about $50 you got a bundle of journal updates to an excellent set of journals. In spite of some very good journal offerings and even expansion to some additional titles since then, the Logos business model is different and has its own strengths. Logos is not Galaxie.
Probably the vast majority of Logos users did not notice the change in business model or care... otherwise the commercial pressures to create a replacement annual update or annual subscription model would have emerged by now. If it ever does though, I'll be all over it... but until then we adapt.
Yes there are individual titles that have gone their own way, that happened even when Galaxie provided journals for Logos users. Specifically in terms of BAR and others like FOI these were never supplied by Galaxie. I purchased them directly from Logos. But all of that is a distraction from the real issue that FL thought they could do it better than Galaxie and since then it has been a long tail of a flurry of promises from FL that end up broken and then a period of silence followed by another flurry of promises with the cycle continuing broken by the rare appearance of a journal update or popular journal like CT add to the range.
FL is no longer a destination point for journals.
praying for continued restoration of strength. Overall she's much better and going in the right direction!
[Y]
A few zillion of us give thanks for Audra's progress. "Agonizingly slow" may express one of Audra's and your feelings. And the continued "watchful waiting" with all the anxiety about continuing or new twinges, pains, feelings, emotions, etc. is part of the process, say we who have or are on the same journey. But as you already know, you two and we are not alone. Ernest Shackelton's "Fourth Man" and the Fourth in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego remind us of that. Bob, our Lord is truly with you and Audra, all day, all night, now and always.
Thanks for the update
Indeed very good news. Prayers for continued strength. May the great physician and healer of bodies and soul be with you both and strengthen you both, according to his glorious riches. God bless you both!!!!
Here are just a few of the things that I've been involved in recently. (Of course, by involved I mean I instigated or helped plan or review... the hard work of execution has been done by our incredible team. I just go to meetings!) https://academic.logos.com/a-new-journal-of-theological-education/ - our new journal for seminary professors -- Bob
Mr Pritchett Sir... Is there any reason why you have limited your journal to only seminary professors? I am obviously not a seminary professor but I do enjoy reading journals (hopefully Logos starts bringing them back in). Are there plans to digitize these in the future or make them available to the non-elite laymen such as myself? [:)]
Bob continues to refuse to digitise Bible Study Magazine.... he has a good setup going where he is trying to charge twice for the same content for those silly enough to pay twice. First content appears in BSM and then a few years down the track, they repackage the content as Logos books. Promises this company were built on are being broken through sneaky approaches I'd expect only from a secular company.
Here are just a few of the things that I've been involved in recently. (Of course, by involved I mean I instigated or helped plan or review... the hard work of execution has been done by our incredible team. I just go to meetings!) https://academic.logos.com/a-new-journal-of-theological-education/ - our new journal for seminary professors -- Bob Mr Pritchett Sir... Is there any reason why you have limited your journal to only seminary professors? I am obviously not a seminary professor but I do enjoy reading journals (hopefully Logos starts bringing them back in). Are there plans to digitize these in the future or make them available to the non-elite laymen such as myself?
Mr Pritchett Sir... Is there any reason why you have limited your journal to only seminary professors? I am obviously not a seminary professor but I do enjoy reading journals (hopefully Logos starts bringing them back in). Are there plans to digitize these in the future or make them available to the non-elite laymen such as myself?
Doc,
In all fairness I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Just about every book we have in Logos started out in paper, if we want to replace our paper copies with digital, that is another purchase. Some keep both, and others sell the paper to help afford the digital.
I think we all have bought many books "Twice", and most of the publisher's are Christian publisher's.
What promise do you think Faithlife has broken?
You will never pay twice for the same thing...yet that is what FL is doing...you are free to see this as acceptable, and free to pay twice for the same content if you like but I do not think it is a good look for them, particularly when FL continue to refuse to put BSM is Logos format. I see too much stretching of the truth from this company in its marketing, this is just another example.
A lot of the examples you are using Bobby are irrelevant to this scenario as those paperbacks you never purchased from FL.
You are free to your view, but calling me unfair is not going to make me change my view on this issue.
Doc, In all fairness I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Just about every book we have in Logos started out in paper, if we want to replace our paper copies with digital, that is another purchase. Some keep both, and others sell the paper to help afford the digital. I think we all have bought many books "Twice", and most of the publisher's are Christian publisher's. What promise do you think Faithlife has broken?
and if you need us to tell you what the problem is at this point in time you clearly have internal communication issues within as your staff must not have kept you fully informed of the disappointment of your customers.
We had a big meeting on journals recently, and as I understand it, the ONLY issue is 'that we aren't doing it exactly like Galaxie', which comes down to how we bundle them (not using Galaxie's popular 50 for $50 / year model), and the fact that we were unable to secure the rights to every journal Galaxie had.
If this is your issue, then you are right, we have failed to do what we believed we could do -- acquire all the same journals. And we are still working on that, and even on more creative (and expensive to us) solutions.
But as far as I can tell from your post, there isn't another issue other than the bundling (which we're revisiting) and whether or not we can get licenses, which is out of our hand. We've learned our lesson about predicting that we'll be able to license, and the appropriate people here have been duly (kindly, Christian-ly) shamed for their aggressive predictions. We have not yet flogged them, introducing as it does legal and ethical issues, but if those of you angry about journals wish it so, we'll (briefly) reconsider it. :-)
Suggesting that starting a print journal aimed at seminary professors is the solution to the lack of journals we used to be able to access in Logod but can no longer only reinforces you are out of touch with customers
I have not in any way suggested that. It's inaccurate (and, I think, unkind) to misrepresent me in this way. I mentioned that journal in a list of "just a few of the things that I've been involved in recently". There is no claim or even inference that it is a solution for a lack of journals. It's completely unrelated.
Are you aware of the growing concern and disfaction
No, I am not. To the best of my knowledge, we have not scaled down tagging or linking at all, and in fact only ever escalate that. I know that we've also reduced prices on hundreds of titles in 2017, though maybe not the ones you want, for which I apologize. I will look into this to see if we have in fact reduced our tagging specifications.
Is there any reason why you have limited your journal to only seminary professors?
Different journals have different audiences; this one happens to be aimed at seminary professors, and is specifically about what they do. (It's so specific, that it may be of limited interest if you aren't a seminary professor.)
It will be available by subscription to anyone who would like to subscribe, and I expect digital editions will follow in the future, but that's not the first emphasis. (Like BSM, part of the goal is to reach people we may not be able to reach digitally.)
Bob continues to refuse to digitise Bible Study Magazine
We have come up with a strategy to deliver BSM digitally (possibly in both a text format as well as a 'PDF-like pages' format), and hope to roll that our in the first quarter. I'm sorry it's been so long.
Re-purposing content from different formats is a classic model; Charles DIckens' stories got published as novels only after they were serialized in magazines... I don't think it's 'sneaky', and I'm pretty sure we're up front about it -- it's just another form factor.
It's not my preference, though, and we haven't done much of it recently except for Michael Heiser's 'Bible Unfiltered', which is specifically to address the audience that likes his content and wants it in other formats.
Re-purposing content from different formats is a classic model; Charles DIckens' stories got published as novels only after they were serialized in magazines... I don't think it's 'sneaky'
It isn't sneaky, and you are right... it is "classic!" [:)]
Personally, I prefer to eliminate nearly all my print materials... which is funny, because I do like good design!
I think <one> of the reasons this continues to be a vocal issue for many forum members is because we have a growing international community which doesn't have a reasonable (i.e. cost effective, timely) way to subscribe to the magazine.
There is no claim or even inference that it is a solution for a lack of journals.
Implication, not inference. :-)
I really appreciate your openess about aims and your honesty about not always achieving them, Bob. Logos is a company I trust, and that has a lot to do with the integrity that you have demonstrated in acknowledging and responding to mistakes. Thank you.
Ditto on Gordon Jones' second paragraph.[:D]
and if you need us to tell you what the problem is at this point in time you clearly have internal communication issues within as your staff must not have kept you fully informed of the disappointment of your customers. We had a big meeting on journals recently, and as I understand it, the ONLY issue is 'that we aren't doing it exactly like Galaxie', which comes down to how we bundle them (not using Galaxie's popular 50 for $50 / year model), and the fact that we were unable to secure the rights to every journal Galaxie had. If this is your issue, then you are right, we have failed to do what we believed we could do -- acquire all the same journals. And we are still working on that, and even on more creative (and expensive to us) solutions. But as far as I can tell from your post, there isn't another issue other than the bundling (which we're revisiting) and whether or not we can get licenses, which is out of our hand. We've learned our lesson about predicting that we'll be able to license, and the appropriate people here have been duly (kindly, Christian-ly) shamed for their aggressive predictions. We have not yet flogged them, introducing as it does legal and ethical issues, but if those of you angry about journals wish it so, we'll (briefly) reconsider it. :-) Suggesting that starting a print journal aimed at seminary professors is the solution to the lack of journals we used to be able to access in Logod but can no longer only reinforces you are out of touch with customers
Bob, I certainly trust you and absolutely disagree with the tone of doc's posts. I think the biggest problem with the journals is that the newer bundles were sold with the understanding that the journals in those bundles would be regularly updated, and newer journals would be added as rights were negotiated; however, it seems that nothing has happened at all, and there have already been posts from Faithlife employees apologizing for the lack of activity on either front.
I automatically assume you guys are doing what you can for your customers as that is my experience, but I think you sometimes promise the moon (with the full intentions of coming through) and find that it is not feasible. Then there is silence from Faithlife, anger from some customers, and then the cleanup process that follows. I think we are in the cleanup process now with journals.
Whatever decisions you make, I want Faithlife to be around for at least as long as I am, so I certainly don't want you giving stuff away!!
God Bless, and I continue to pray for your family.
The issues I see with Journals (in no order of importance):
1. Many, many broken promises on what will be done.
2. Scheduled releases and updates are not happening.
3. Loss of certain journals.
4. Time it has taken for this to get resolved.
5. The appearance that Logos cares more about other projects than the ones their customers ask for.
6. Communication does not happen until the Logos users bring out the pitchforks.
7. I spend $50 a year on Galaxie for renting a resource instead of paying you $50 to own a resource.
8. The clear need for a Journal Czar to regularly speak to the people and manage journal projects.
9. The underlying foundation to all of the above: We want Logos to succeed, provided us the resources needed, and take our money.
But are you going to offer it in Logos format?
Bob continues to refuse to digitise Bible Study Magazine We have come up with a strategy to deliver BSM digitally (possibly in both a text format as well as a 'PDF-like pages' format), and hope to roll that our in the first quarter. I'm sorry it's been so long. Re-purposing content from different formats is a classic model; Charles DIckens' stories got published as novels only after they were serialized in magazines... I don't think it's 'sneaky', and I'm pretty sure we're up front about it -- it's just another form factor. It's not my preference, though, and we haven't done much of it recently except for Michael Heiser's 'Bible Unfiltered', which is specifically to address the audience that likes his content and wants it in other formats.
Bob, I certainly trust you and absolutely disagree with the tone of doc's posts.
Joseph how are you being helpful by making a judgemental comment like this about a fellow customers concerns whom yiou don't know and are making assumptiond about their 'tone' as you call it. Sadly reality is there will always be Christians who boast, 'look at me, I am not like that sinner over there', so I should not be surprised by your judgemental attitude.
The only tone that was expressed is one of disappointment with certain actions of FL and any customer has the right to express their concerns. Please stick to providing your views on topics without being judgemental of other people's views that differ from yours. These forums are not meant for debating one another's expetiences with and concerns about the company. You are certainly most free to share yours but if you like to debate people's views on topics head on over to one of the many Christian debating forums that exist online, but here keep your judgements to yourself about other peoples customer experiences.
If Bob thinks any customer has a mistaken view he can respond to them himself. You putting both yourself and him up on a pedestal by saying, Bob, look at me I'm am not like that sinner over there who dares to express disappointment with FL is really not a good look for you Joseph. I believe you are a much better person than what you are painting yourself to be with the throwawy comment you felt you just had to make about someone with whom you disagree.
Once again you have well summarised the issues with Journals.
Bob, The issues I see with Journals (in no order of importance): 1. Many, many broken promises on what will be done. 2. Scheduled releases and updates are not happening. 3. Loss of certain journals. 4. Time it has taken for this to get resolved. 5. The appearance that Logos cares more about other projects than the ones their customers ask for. 6. Communication does not happen until the Logos users bring out the pitchforks. 7. I spend $50 a year on Galaxie for renting a resource instead of paying you $50 to own a resource. 8. The clear need for a Journal Czar to regularly speak to the people and manage journal projects. 9. The underlying foundation to all of the above: We want Logos to succeed, provided us the resources needed, and take our money.
Audra is back to 'watch and wait' after her clear scan post-chemo
That's so good to hear. PTL. Hoping for steady and full recovery.
Overall she's much better and going in the right direction! Thanks for asking...
I'm PTL with you, Bob!! Thanks for all you keep doing for this community.
Joseph how are you being helpful by making a judgemental comment like this about a fellow customers concerns whom yiou don't know and are making assumptiond about their 'tone' as you call it. Sadly reality is there will always be Christians who boast, 'look at me, I am not like that sinner over there', so I should not be surprised by your judgemental attitude. The only tone that was expressed is one of disappointment with certain actions of FL and any customer has the right to express their concerns. Please stick to providing your views on topics without being judgemental of other people's views that differ from yours. These forums are not meant for debating one another's expetiences with and concerns about the company. You are certainly most free to share yours but if you like to debate people's views on topics head on over to one of the many Christian debating forums that exist online, but here keep your judgements to yourself about other peoples customer experiences.
I'm only going to respond to this once, because despite your accusation, I am not going to debate you about anything. What you want is absolutely valid, but how you present your arguments comes across in a vitriolic manner. I was merely pointing out that I am not angry or about to start accusing Faithlife of dishonesty, but I do have similar concerns. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you should consider that your tone may seem different when typed out than it does in your mind, which is often a problem in this medium..
If Bob thinks any customer has a mistaken view he can respond to them himself.
He did above:
Suggesting that starting a print journal aimed at seminary professors is the solution to the lack of journals we used to be able to access in Logod but can no longer only reinforces you are out of touch with customers I have not in any way suggested that. It's inaccurate (and, I think, unkind) to misrepresent me in this way. I mentioned that journal in a list of "just a few of the things that I've been involved in recently". There is no claim or even inference that it is a solution for a lack of journals. It's completely unrelated.
And just to be clear, I am no better than you; I have also said things on this very forum which were said in haste and irritation, and I apologize profusely.
P.S. I hope that the journal situation becomes better.
Joseph I am not hurt just disappointed by the fact people on these forums continue to feel it necessary to make judgements about others on these forums with whom they disagree rather than sticking to simply expressing their own view and leaving it at that. You may not like my honesty and nor might Bob on ocassion but I'm not going to change from giving honest feedback.
You still clearly feel yourself superior because you felt the need to copy Bob's comments to me here in your response when once again this has nothing to do with you. I have already read his comnents so no need for you to repeat them. Sometimes I simply choose not to respond any further, other times I respond offline and other times I respond direct. I guess you earn two Gold Stars today for twice injectioning yourself into a conversation that was never directed at you.
At least we can agree on the hope for a better solution for journals in the future and I also you continue to provide the helpful and insightful answers on these forums because you do have a lot to offer, just leave thd judgemental side comments about others out of your responses.
Bob continues to refuse to digitise Bible Study Magazine We have come up with a strategy to deliver BSM digitally (possibly in both a text format as well as a 'PDF-like pages' format), and hope to roll that our in the first quarter. I'm sorry it's been so long.
My hope would be that you would offer both a PDF version and one inside Logos. I have a Kindle and like to read magazines in PDF form, but I'd also like to have it tagged in Logos so it shows up in searches or guides. If I could only have one, I'd prefer the latter.
Right now, I get my monthly sub to BSM and scan it using my Fujitsu scanner and then load it on my Kindle. I leave the physical copy in a convenient spot in the house where I can consume short snippets of info while performing other functions (ahem).
Praying for Audra. May God bless and heal her.
I know that we've also reduced prices on hundreds of titles in 2017...
Hi Bob, I wanted to personally thank you and the Logos team for the push on reducing prices recently. I emailed you last year expressing concern over the decision to make LN subscriptions one-off payment. However, I'm glad to say that with the introduction of the free base packages, those concerns about cost have long since faded away. Thank you.
Now, if you can only find a way to remove the additional charge for those who want to pay monthly...
To give you assistance in looking at this issue here is some recent discussion surrounding one resource that was recently upgraded (or as users see it, downgraded) in order to line up with your current tagging standards.
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/152365.aspx
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/148119/928192.aspx#928192
Bob you like to put yourself forward as an innovator yet here you are hiding behind that's they way it's always been done argument.
How about actually being an innovator in publishing, how about being different from the rest ? How about making not paying for the same thing twice actually mean something ?
If you can't live up to that being different persona you like your company to have, how about at least being upfront about it and make it clear in your advertising what you are doing ? By not being clear an upfront about what you are repacking content this is where, whether you like the tag or not, you are being sneaky.
https://www.logos.com/product/138755/the-bible-unfiltered-approaching-scripture-on-its-own-terms
You have not specifically spelled out this title is simply a repacking of existing material. The people who write your marketing product features and benefits need to learn how to write openly and honestly. It is only now that you have pointed out in this post that this book is one that is re-packaged that I can now read between the lines of the marketing speak and see where the veiled reference to this being repackaged material exists - this is not clear open language.
It's not my preference, though, and we haven't done much of it recently except
This repackaging of material is also popping up with mobile Ed courses where your team is taking lectures from different course and repacking it as a new course and there no where in the marketing blurbs about it being re-packaging of material form other mobile ed Course. Take the following as an example:
https://www.logos.com/product/145849/mobile-ed-ch111-understanding-the-protestant-reformation-precursors-and-legacy
I grant you that you might not be aware this is being done in the name of your company, but repacking of content without clear open honest communication of this fact is occurring.
But I expect you to do nothing about improving the openness and honesty in your marketing regarding re-packaged material, just as you refused to improve the openness and honesty about the fact regarding the misleading claims on the Vyrso web site about the ability to look up bible references in Vyrso resources even though such a claim has no basis when you rely on automatic tagging of these resources and so if verses references are not spelled out in the correct format they never will be able to be looked up at all correctly.
We've learned our lesson about predicting that we'll be able to license, and the appropriate people here have been duly (kindly, Christian-ly) shamed for their aggressive predictions. We have not yet flogged them, introducing as it does legal and ethical issues, but if those of you angry about journals wish it so, we'll (briefly) reconsider it. :-)
Any of these issues I raise are not about being angry with you or your employees. This is about challenging you to take your company to the next level in your marketing, to set yourself apart from the rest, to not simply sit back and be a company satisfied with following the 'classic' model of publishing or marketing or software development or customer service. It's up to you Bob, continue to think me unfair, or maybe take a small grain of what I am saying and allow yourself and your company become so much more than what it is today in its standards of commination and marketing.
I'm thankful that specific articles have been republished in book form. It's convenient to be able to find and read them in one resource.
I don't think anyone is forced to pay twice -- no one has to buy the books if they don't want them. But I'm glad that the option is there for customers who favor the book format.
Re-purposing content from different formats is a classic model; Charles DIckens' stories got published as novels only after they were serialized in magazines... I don't think it's 'sneaky', and I'm pretty sure we're up front about it -- it's just another form factor. I'm thankful that specific articles have been republished in book form. It's convenient to be able to find and read them in one resource. I don't think anyone is forced to pay twice -- no one has to buy the books if they don't want them. But I'm glad that the option is there for customers who favor the book format.
[Y][Y]
