Syntax or Morph search

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Lee Webb | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 28 2017 9:01 PM

I am trying to do a search for instances where a relative clause is followed by the use of participles (such as in Philippians 2:6 and Colossians 1:15ff). Would I use a syntax search for this or a morph search?

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Ryan Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 5:19 AM

I would suggest syntax. However, I have a question about the query.

Are you looking for a relative clause with the relPRO as subject? Also, do you want the participle(s) to be immediately after the relPRO or just anywhere in the clause? I'm assuming you are talking about what Cascadia marks as "ADV" (Adverbial function) rather than one that would be in a nominal phrase. 

One more thought, I am not seeing Colossians 1:15ff as having participles until v. 20 which wouldn't be a good passage to use for this it seems.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 5:37 AM

You can try this Syntax Search and see if it gets you what you want:

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Lee Webb | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 8:55 AM

Thanks so much for your quick response!  I'm working on a dissertation on identifying pre-formed confessions and hymns in the NT. R. Martin says that "the clearest sign that a hymn-like passage is being quoted is that a relative clause marks its opening, and is continued by the use of participles in preference to main verbs."  He lists Phil. 2:6ff.; Col. 1:15ff.; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Peter 1:20 (participles); 2:23ff; 3:18ff. (participles).  I was trying to verify his claims and also see if there were other examples.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 10:07 AM

The syntax search does not list several of your examples. Perhaps you need to tweak the search for participles rather than participial clause as in Phil 2:6. Even this search does not include most of the verses you site. Perhaps you need to determine in more detail what the author is referring to.

I looked at several of your example verses and they are lacking participles. Best wishes on your dissertation.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 10:26 AM

Here is an article that may elaborate on your issue:

10. Discerning a Hymn through the Structure of Colossians 1:15–20

Although the presence of prayers and confessions of faith in the New Testament is readily acknowledged, full-fledged hymns are more difficult to discern. The following characteristics are frequently mentioned to affirm the presence of a hymn:

1. Most obvious, of course, would be the use of technical musical expressions.

2. Grammatical indications such as an opening relative pronoun (ὅς) and predicative relative clauses point to an original liturgical setting. Each stanza of the hymn below begins with this relative pronoun (Col 1:15, 18b) as do the hymns introduced in Phil 2:6 and 1 Tim 3:16.

3. The occurrence of parallelism strongly suggests the presence of poetry. Ralph Martin contends that “a correspondence between words and phrases which are placed in the sentences in an obviously carefully selected position” indicates the presence of a hymn. The second stanza of the hymn below displays some remarkable parallelism.

4. Literary devices such as repetition, alliteration, inclusio, and chiasmus can reveal the presence of stanzas or strophes within a hymn. The first stanza in Col 1:15–20 reveals a chiastic structure, and the underlined words in the hymn below demonstrate the repetitions between the two stanzas.

5. Rhetorical indicators are important. Martin pays special attention if the passage contains “a certain rhythmical lilt ascertainable when the passage is read aloud.”

6. With regard to content, an abrupt change of subject matter or isolation from the context can demonstrate the presence of preexistent material such as a hymn. For instance, immediately preceding the hymn at Col 1:14 Paul employs the first person plural, and following the hymn in 1:21–23 the second person plural is used, but the third person singular is present throughout the hymn.

Through the use of these characteristics New Testament scholars have detected the presence of hymns in Col 1:15–20; Phil 2:6–11; Eph 1:3–14; John 1:1–18; and 1 Tim 3:16, as well as the book of Revelation.

 Dean B. Deppe, All Roads Lead to the Text: Eight Methods of Inquiry into the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2011), 22–23.

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Lee Webb | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 11:41 AM

John,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. You've been very helpful in showing me some of the syntax searches that can be run. Thanks also for the quote from Deppe. I was trying to reproduce your latest search, with a relative clause followed by word with mood=participle and part of speech=verb. I was wondering how you created the  word search. I do not see mood listed. Is this something you created using the morphology tags?

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 12:08 PM

It is in the syntax search options for Word under Morphology.

Here is a Screen shot of the Word options.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 12:11 PM

Here is the search I used to find the article I sent you. There are quite a few good articles on topic.

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Ryan Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 12:17 PM

It's weird to me because a decent amount of the passages he quotes do not have participles following.

Another question before putting the query together, you are looking for participles to be in the same clause as the relPRO?

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Lee Webb | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 12:35 PM

Thanks so much John.  Using Phil 2:6 as an example, I ran the search on a relative pronoun followed by a participle instead of looking for clauses. My search did not return any results. Can you tell me what I did wrong?

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Ryan Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 1:07 PM

Here is a high-level search. I was trying to help to get more specific. Hopefully, this at least helps. I made it to where the relPRO has to be first in the clause and anything can be between the adverbial participle and the relPRO.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 1:11 PM

Lee Webb:
I ran the search on a relative pronoun followed by a participle instead of looking for clauses. My search did not return any results.

Words are not subordinate to Words, so

The Words can be separated by zero or a maximum of 8 words. So this can be done by a Morph search with proximity.

Dave
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Ryan Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 1:17 PM

I agree with dave, if you are doing what he showed, it's wayyyyy easier to do a morph search. My search above is more helpful that a morph search IMO because it constrains the morphological information to a clause.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 1:26 PM

Lee Webb:
Using Phil 2:6 as an example, I ran the search on a relative pronoun followed by a participle ...

Used Philippians 2:6 and Colossians 1:15 for visual template when creating Syntax Search:

Cascadia propagates lemmas into syntax structure.

Lee Webb:
My search did not return any results. Can you tell me what I did wrong?

Words are at the same level in Syntax Search (not indented: e.g. clauses)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 37
Lee Webb | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 29 2017 1:48 PM

Thanks so much everyone for all of your help on this. I have learned so much about syntactical searches today! But I have so much more to learn!

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