ICC $19.99 a volume good deal?

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Posts 23
Eric Back | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 23 2018 11:19 PM

Monthly sales on various volumes may run less but I couldn't pass up R. H. Charles on Revelation. The I. Howard Marshall volume is also tempting me.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 24 2018 3:15 AM

Travis Walter:

ICC is $19.99 a volume.  Worth it?  I have a few volumes when they were $2-$3 or so a while ago.  I have many commentaries, but not this one. It would cost me a bit to complete it.

I have a few volumes myself when Logos sold them for less than $5, so to answer your question: No, for $19.99 these are not a good deal. Very old too, but still hold some value, but not for $19.99.   The only reason I paid $17 and change for the pastoral epistles by Howard it’s because it’s a more recent volume.  Also, I read somewhere that he doesn’t believe that Paul wrote 1, 2 Timothy and Titus;  so I want to see what his arguments are  for drawing that conclusion. 

DAL

Posts 3649
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 24 2018 4:07 AM

Denise:
I picked up 12 with copyrights after 1996. Took some creative search-string creation to root out the oldies.

You're right! My mistake.

If you don't mind listing them in this thread (or a link to the customised search url), it would save others from having to duplicate your work.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 24 2018 5:27 AM

Francis:
I passed on the ICC sale. The Marshall volume is not part of the sale but came on sale separately. Other more recent volumes of the series are not included, only the oldies.

Sure? I picked up two on Isaiah by John Goldingay, which were published 2006 and 2014 (I own Marshall's book for a long time). By the way I don't remember ever having seen ICC for $2 or $3 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 24 2018 5:35 AM

Francis:

Denise:
I picked up 12 with copyrights after 1996. Took some creative search-string creation to root out the oldies.

If you don't mind listing them in this thread (or a link to the customised search url), it would save others from having to duplicate your work.

As a workaround, the series page on bestcommentaries.com will give publication dates (and sometimes ranks); https://www.bestcommentaries.com/series/international-critical-commentary-icc/ 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1244
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 24 2018 6:11 AM

NB.Mick:

By the way I don't remember ever having seen ICC for $2 or $3 

In October 2015 several volumes were on sale for $1.99. But for the newer ICC volumes $19.99 is also a good deal. 

Posts 622
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 25 2018 9:00 AM

DAL:

I read somewhere that he doesn’t believe that Paul wrote 1, 2 Timothy and Titus;  so I want to see what his arguments are  for drawing that conclusion. 

DAL

Were you able to confirm this belief?  How or why does he believe this?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 25 2018 9:39 AM

Michael S.:

DAL:

I read somewhere that he doesn’t believe that Paul wrote 1, 2 Timothy and Titus;  so I want to see what his arguments are  for drawing that conclusion. 

DAL

Were you able to confirm this belief?  How or why does he believe this?

He explores this in great detail - 45 pages - and concludes

Our hypothesis, then, is that the indications are that the PE belong to the period shortly after the death of Paul. They, especially 2 Tim, are based on authentic Pauline materials whose extent cannot now be traced precisely, and they may well have been produced in a group which included Timothy and Titus themselves. The stimulus came from the existence of the authentic letter behind 2 Tim, which was already beginning to face up to the problems of the opposition, and led to the composition of 1 Tim and Tit to deal more explicitly and fully with the problems caused by opposition and heresy in Ephesus and Crete. The letters were intended to give Pauline backing to Timothy and Titus and associated church leaders in their work of calling the congregations back from false teaching and practices. They are examples not of pseudonymity but of allonymity. Their composition was accordingly in no sense deceptive, in that it was known that these were fresh formulations of Pauline teaching to take account of the changing situation. Nevertheless, with the passage of time the origins of the letters were forgotten and they were assumed to be from Paul himself.

I. Howard Marshall and Philip H. Towner, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles, International Critical Commentary (London; New York: T&T Clark International, 2004), 92.

Posts 118
Jonathan Ray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 26 2018 10:08 PM

NB.Mick:
As a workaround, the series page on bestcommentaries.com will give publication dates (and sometimes ranks); https://www.bestcommentaries.com/series/international-critical-commentary-icc/ 

Here is an instance of where bestcommentaries.com comes in handy--to easily retrieve publication dates. I have read a number of posts in recent days referencing bestcommentaries.com ranking system, though, in order to determine whether or not to purchase certain commentaries. Some top-notch commentaries have been passed up, I'm sure, because of how things are ranked.

For instance, out of nearly 100 commentaries, Ben Witherington's volume on Philippians is ranked dead last. Really? Or take George Guthrie's 2 Corinthians commentary in the BECNT series. IMHO, this is even better than Garland's work in the NAC series. And yet, Guthrie is near the bottom of the list.

I point this out to simply say that there are some great commentaries in the ICC set (whether or not bestcommentaries.com says so) that might not be on sale for a long while. As has been pointed out, Charles' Revelation commentary is a steal, and I snagged that up today.

Posts 3114
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 5:11 AM

I wonder how they rank their commentaries. Where do they get that final number

Posts 3114
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 5:14 AM

On a side note, could someone post a little piece of content from the Charles Revelation commentary? There are no samples to look at in logos

Posts 561
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 5:18 AM

Mattillo:

I wonder how they rank their commentaries. Where do they get that final number

https://www.bestcommentaries.com/about/

Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | Logos 4 Portfolio | Logos 5 Platinum | Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade | Logos 7 Essential Upgrade - Large | Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum and Academic Professional

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 5:35 AM

Any recommendations on the ICC commentaries on Isaiah?  Has anyone used them?  Are they worth getting or not?

Posts 561
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 5:52 AM

Mattillo:

On a side note, could someone post a little piece of content from the Charles Revelation commentary? There are no samples to look at in logos

I can't figure out a good way to post a sample from this resource to give you a decent look at the content without creating a very long post - each chapter is huge! It will be well worth your investment at the current rate. Here’s all you get with your purchase:

Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | Logos 4 Portfolio | Logos 5 Platinum | Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade | Logos 7 Essential Upgrade - Large | Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum and Academic Professional

Posts 10040
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 6:00 AM

Mattillo:

On a side note, could someone post a little piece of content from the Charles Revelation commentary? There are no samples to look at in logos

Mattillo, you'd need to narrow down what you're interested in. Just as example:

- Discusses the overall perspective of the author's theology

- Lengthy discussion of exactly how Rev's grammar operates, differences, why shifts etc. Part of grammar by part. Very detailed.

- When discussing dates, on early leaders, discusses specifics ... Origen, Iraneaus, etc Most comms kind of summarize.

- Of course discussions of the genre (his expertise)

- Verse commentary is typically a verse group, then verse by verse, looking at grammatical choices, etc. This I like relative to my neural nets.

- Lengthy list of the manuscripts etc.

- Apparatus, greek text and translation

- As noted above, Logos includes the papyri etc.


Posts 3114
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 6:20 AM

Good point Denise. That was a vague request so my apologies.  Could you post what he has to say on Revelation 12? If to large then verses 3-4 or 7-17

Posts 3649
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 6:31 AM

Beale includes a lot of parallels from OT, rabbinic sources, etc., in his NIGTC on Revelation. I am wondering whether Charles would not cover much of the same ground or what the advantage might be to have the ICC volume. 

Posts 10040
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 6:33 AM

Ok, I reduced the font, so you may need to look at the jpg outside. I also included a discussion of jewish 'horns' from ch13 which is interesting. For info, Charles sees John expecting Rome to exterminate Christianity completely, requiring Jesus and the martyrs to start over.


Posts 3114
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 7:08 AM
Thank you!
Posts 3114
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 27 2018 7:14 AM

Very interesting. I think this will make a great commentary to compare with Robert Thomas' Revelation. Thank you

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