Introducing Faithlife Connect

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This post has 279 Replies | 15 Followers

Posts 1788
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:15 PM

Rob Lambert:

The one wonderful tool I have come to depend on is Lemma in Passage.  https://www.logos.com/product/55915/lemma-in-passage

Lemma in Passage is currently available only in Faithlife Connect Essentials and higher (or Logos Now and Logos Cloud Essentials and higher), but we'll consider adding it to the Logos 8 Full Feature Set.

Rob Lambert:

What I want to ask is how do I keep this feature as well as the Lexham Hebrew Interlinear which has also become my good friend.

The Lexham Hebrew–English Interlinear Bible is available in the Logos 7 Full Feature Set, so purchasing that (or the Logos 8 version) will allow you to retain that.

Posts 148
Rob Lambert | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:02 PM

This is my main question.... .you answered it, sort of....and to my satisfaction.... 

I can honestly say that I would have been more than a thousand dollars ahead in 2017 if I had this essential deal as I could have rented two courses I spent more than a grand for.  

I also believe that there will be a way for me to have lemma in passage (it is the greatest tool to learn what brainy folks think about words because it turns your commentaries into lexicons).

So, my thoughts for all of you....

STOP beating each other up....

Bob is not your Pastor, Faithlife is not your church.... He can change the rules and you can leave.  What you shouldn't do is beat him up any further..,

Posts 1922
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:11 PM

Chris duMond:
Logos Cloud: Study the Word with Logos books and features. Each Connect level is consistent with the current levels of Logos Cloud.

Help me to understand this.  Isn't logos cloud disappearing and being replaced by Faithlife Connect?  The ultimate package comes with 2,737 books.  What if I was a new customer, owned nothing, but wanted 10,000 books to rent.  Where is that offering?  How does that work?

Posts 78
Phil Tuften | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:19 PM
Not happy
Posts 1788
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:23 PM

Mark:
Isn't logos cloud disappearing and being replaced by Faithlife Connect?

Logos Cloud is disappearing as a standalone offering. It's available now only bundled inside Faithlife Connect. So it's still around, just not available on its own any more.

Mark:
What if I was a new customer, owned nothing, but wanted 10,000 books to rent.  Where is that offering?  How does that work?

We don't have that offering. Collector's has about 5,000 titles. Logos Cloud and Faithlife Connect only go up to Ultimate, which is equivalent to Logos 7 Portfolio. If you want to go beyond that, you'll need to buy additional content on top of what you get with Ultimate.

Posts 1073
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:23 PM

Rob Lambert:

STOP beating each other up....

Bob is not your Pastor, Faithlife is not your church.... He can change the rules and you can leave.  What you shouldn't do is beat him up any further..,

No one is beating Bob up. Customers--some who have spent tens of thousands of dollars, and some who have been with Logos for two decades, are expressing their displeasure with this change, and why. You don't need to rush to Bob's defense; he can handle it.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 145
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:28 PM

Rob Lambert:

Bob is not your Pastor, Faithlife is not your church.... He can change the rules and you can leave.  What you shouldn't do is beat him up any further..,

Correct, but he is the owner of a product he is trying to sell. And you are correct he can change things if he wants, but we have every right to disagree and voice that disagreement in order to possibly come to a better agreement, especially for those of us that have supported Logos to this point. Last resort we want, and he wants is for us to leave.

And really once again this is their own fault. Once again Bob's email should have came out now and the changes should have gone into affect in November, or if they wanted to start it now, months ago. But once again hit everyone with a major change and wait for the dust to settle, guess they will never learn.

Posts 325
Steve Farson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 10:17 PM

I'm a Logos Now subscriber. I own 14K+ resources. Have not seen an email and unsure how this news is "good news" for me.

Who should I email to mention I have not seen an email. And does anyone have any insight how this Faithlife announcement will or can positively impact me as a very loyal customer?

Thanks much. 

Posts 476
Travis Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 10:26 PM

I really hope they do dynamic pricing or something. I did a quick look at the Ultimate and I own like 90%+ of it (give or take)  so that really needs to come into play.  Not that I would even consider this currently with all the mass confusion, but still this is really bad.

Posts 325
Steve Farson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 10:41 PM

Hey, ummm, Logos Now subscriber here, but have not received an email. Is there a recommended email address I should write to?

Also own many, many resources and wondering if this news is "good news" for me. It isn't clear to me. Thanks for any perspective.

Steve

Posts 1788
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 10:50 PM

Steve Farson:
Hey, ummm, Logos Now subscriber here, but have not received an email. Is there a recommended email address I should write to?

We'll look into it for you. I'm sorry you haven't received your email yet.

Steve Farson:
Also own many, many resources and wondering if this news is "good news" for me. It isn't clear to me. Thanks for any perspective.

It depends on your needs and interests, and what you consider valuable.

It could be good news if you were looking for a way to move back to the ownership model. You could use your discount to get the Logos 7 or 8 features and be done with the ongoing cost of a subscription.

It could also be good news if you find a lot of value in the new additions to Faithlife Connect Essentials, like Courses, TV, Ebooks, BSM, rewards, etc. For example, if you claim a free Lexham Press book each month at an average of $20 value, that alone could pay for your subscription.

It could also be good news if you find value in thew new additions to Faithlife Connect Starter and don't need access to all the Logos features.

Our hope is that one of these approaches will work for you and feel like good news.

Posts 1788
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 11:31 PM

PetahChristian:

Rob Lambert:
When Logos Now dies for me later this year and I no longer get "lemma in passage" or have access to the Lexham Hebrew Interlinear both of which come from Logos Now, what precisely do I do to get these tools?

It may sound strange, but none of us can give you a precise answer yet. We won't know for certain until Logos 8 ships, whether the tools you want will still be subscriber-only, or will be bundled in the L8 feature set.

In the past, subscription-only products gradually moved to become a part of the (full) feature set, meaning you no longer had to subscribe, but could permanently buy and own those features.

It's likely that you'd have two options to choose from... subscribe to Faithlife Connect (Essentials) or buy the L8 FFS.

The good news is that L8 should ship before you have to make a decision (or lose access), so you still will have time to rent or buy what you need. 

I can say that we will do our best to level the playing field between owning and subscribing. We don't want to put features out of reach for our owners by limiting them to subscriptions. There might be a few minor cases where that is unavoidable, but our goal is to provide the same feature experience to both audiences.

Posts 1073
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 2:56 AM

Are the temporary resources in each tier listed somewhere? I was migrated to FC: Starter. I just did the download and got a bunch of books with temporary licenses. I'd like to know which are part of FC, which I will lose in a few months, and which are part of Now, which I will lose in November.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 4834
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 3:14 AM

Strange as I have had plenty of other email's from FL over the past week, even today I have received emails.

Chris duMond:

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Chris duMond:

I'll check on this, DOC. Stay tuned. 

Thank you Chris.

Your email came back as "undeliverable" in our email system and Customer Service will be reaching out to you manually. Please be patient as we're working through all the "undeliverable" emails. Thanks. 

Posts 2655
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 3:22 AM

Removed

Posts 510
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 3:28 AM

I love Logos and want the best for the company, but I don't foresee myself ever subscribing to Faithlife Connect. I want to purchase or lease the content I want to have, not lease a package of content consisting of many things I won't use. If the finest prime steak was available for just $1 it would not represent good value to a vegetarian.

The current fora frenzy demonstrates that the announcement of Faithlife Connect is impacting many loyal customers emotionally, and not in a good way. The general feeling is that Faithlife wants ever more money. Yes, it is and always has been a profit-seeking business and technology has changed immensely since the company was founded, but I hope that Faithlife is able to recognise now that it's business tactics are being seen by many customers as insulting. It's the same incredulous "are-you-kidding-me?" feeling I get when Logos tells me that it's "Full Feature Set" is less full than than its Fuller (Extended) and Fullest (Cloud) feature sets.

Everyone accepts that Faithlife has costs to cover, and I am convinced that Bob is a good guy trying his best to serve the interests of customers and company, but I think that Faithlife Connect is likely not only to lose his company revenue but also customers' goodwill. I love Logos and hope that I am wrong.

Posts 58
Avi | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 3:30 AM

Do we get a permanent license for the free monthly books (Lexham + classic) or will it disappear once we cancel the subscription?

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 4:05 AM

There are several issues going on here...

1. Logos has to embrace the subscription model. To Bob's defence, he has been talking about it for many years and we see this happening in the world around us in many instances. The transition, particularly for users that have invested 5 figure sums and are now subscribing to content they have already paid for is going to be a challenge. This will be a very interesting case study in some years to come.

2. The perceived value of Logos Now to Faithlife Connect starter and price point is way inferior. I have yet to read a post from someone who was bought into the Logos Now concept that feels like this is a product enhancement. I think we are going to have to chalk this up to we were getting a really good deal and we have to embrace a new economic reality and product model.

3. The concept of new features being the 'entire value' and the 'tail was wagging the dog' (Bob's words) of the Logos Now product I assert is a bit overstated. Logos created a 'Member's Club' which we bought into and now the club is being closed. I respectfully suggest that Logos has indexed into the wrong issue and missed the product loyalty.  Also as a subtext, if you read some of the posts it is clear that some subscribed to Logos Now for the feature set and other reasons. (I did)

I can imagine the coffee room discussion at Logos right now. This is just another storm that the Logos users are fussing about in regards to change... Just as when we closed the Logos usenet groups, axed Logos for Mac at version 1.x, Mac product instability and bugs through version 4.x, etc., lack of clarity when base package philosophy changed at version 5, the parting of ways with Galaxie journals, etc. users were a little crazy on the forums.  I have to say this feels different.  I am a little disappointed by what I have read in the last 24 hours. Watching the dialogue, it does not seem at times the points are getting across, or if they are, there's little that Logos can do and we just need to go this direction regardless.

It seems there are different dynamics are at play.  This is not a product roll out with excitement, but a necessary change to keep going.  I think us users that rode the development of Logos and fuelled their growth through buying pre-pubs over the years will have to accept a new reality.  Before now, who heard of many users spending five figure sums on Bible software?!?

The economics are changing and we need to adapt. Spending a baseline of $20/month to maintain what I currently have, along with buying the occasional book here and there is part of that reality.  Newer users may find this easier to do because they have not invested so much, but for those of us that have, we will need to find what will work for us. I have said it in another thread, I fully expect Logos 8 to be intertwined with Faithlife Connect and even be discounted as parts of packages as the mix of 'transactional' and subscription are worked out.  

Change is coming... and the loyal fanbase which is in effect stockholders of Logos will need to adapt. The lack of parity between Logos Now and Faithlife Connect Starter is a clear signal of what we need to crunch our numbers over and figure out new investment strategies on what we will buy going forward.

In closing, Bob and the team are great people. No personal attacks intended.

Posts 1942
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 4:37 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:

There are several issues going on here...

1. Logos has to embrace the subscription model. To Bob's defence, he has been talking about it for many years and we see this happening in the world around us in many instances. The transition, particularly for users that have invested 6 figure sums and are now subscribing to content they have already paid for is going to be a challenge. This will be a very interesting case study in some years to come.

2. The perceived value of Logos Now to Faithlife Connect starter and price point is way inferior. I have yet to read a post from someone who was bought into the Logos Now concept that feels like this is a product enhancement. I think we are going to have to chalk this up to we were getting a really good deal and we have to embrace a new economic reality and product model.

3. The concept of new features being the 'entire value' and the 'tail was wagging the dog' (Bob's words) of the Logos Now product I assert is a bit overstated. Logos created a 'Member's Club' which we bought into and now the club is being closed. I respectfully suggest that Logos has indexed into the wrong issue and missed the product loyalty.  Also as a subtext, if you read some of the posts it is clear that some subscribed to Logos Now for the feature set and other reasons. (I did)

I can imagine the coffee room discussion at Logos right now. This is just another storm that the Logos users are fussing about in regards to change... Just as when we closed the Logos usenet groups, axed Logos for Mac at version 1.x, Mac product instability and bugs through version 4.x, etc., lack of clarity when base package philosophy changed at version 5, the parting of ways with Galaxie journals, etc. users were a little crazy on the forums.  I have to say this feels different.  I am a little disappointed by what I have read in the last 24 hours. Watching the dialogue, it does not seem at times the points are getting across, or if they are, there's little that Logos can do and we just need to go this direction regardless.

It seems there are different dynamics are at play.  This is not a product roll out with excitement, but a necessary change to keep going.  I think us users that rode the development of Logos and fuelled their growth through buying pre-pubs over the years will have to accept a new reality.  Before now, who heard of many users spending six figure sums on Bible software?!?

The economics are changing and we need to adapt. Spending a baseline of $20/month to maintain what I currently have, along with buying the occasional book here and there is part of that reality.  Newer users may find this easier to do because they have not invested so much, but for those of us that have, we will need to find what will work for us. I have said it in another thread, I fully expect Logos 8 to be intertwined with Faithlife Connect and even be discounted as parts of packages as the mix of 'transactional' and subscription are worked out.  

Change is coming... and the loyal fanbase which is in effect stockholders of Logos will need to adapt. The lack of parity between Logos Now and Faithlife Connect Essentials is a clear signal of what we need to crunch our numbers over and figure out new investment strategies on what we will buy going forward.

In closing, Bob and the team are great people. No personal attacks intended.

I agree with every point you've made here!  The roll out is simply frustrating, but it ultimately looks like we are either 1) Going back to the way things used to be where we make our purchases with new up grades (assuming there is indeed parity between purchase and subscription), or 2) we buy into a subscription.  For me personally, the subscription doesn't make sense, but that's okay, I can go back to the way things used to be; however, if there is not parity between the two models, then I will indeed be (not just feel) slighted.

The most important thing for me is that Logos stays viable, and if they have to get rid of Logos Now to stay that way, then I am good with that.  Bob's long post should have been the first thing we saw regarding this change.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 3098
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 4:47 AM

I have been with it since 1995- but 2018 ends my relationship with Logos- Oct. 2018 to be exact when the current Logos Now subscription ends. None of the so-called Connect interest me at all, since upgrading to L8 is not going to happen- nor buying any further packages.

I will keep the forums going for a while to monitor what's happening with L7, but I imagine it will not be to long before they drop keeping L7 up to date in order to force the movement into L8. At that point there may be no need to even maintain contact with the company.

I have already made multiple backup files which includes all my Logos and PBB resources, just saying better prepared than getting caught with your pants down- like now.

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