Feature Request: Lookup available locally/offline

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This post has 29 Replies | 2 Followers

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GregW | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 14 2018 3:11 AM

I am a basic Greek reader, and have a Reading plan set up to read through the NA28 each year. Each day I will need to use Lookup two or three times either to parse a word or to find its meaning. On the Logos iPad app this takes time (up to 15s) when online and doesn't work at all when offline. It was only today when experimenting with A-company's iPad app that I realised how much smoother this could be. When I look up a word there, the parsing and a basic gloss comes up instantly. This actually transformed my reading experience, making it so much smoother and easier. 

Having said that, I then wasted half an hour trying to work out how to set up a Reading Plan in A-company's desktop and mobile apps! 

I know there are a series of technical challenges in the Logos architecture over making some of these things available offline, but I have to say I'll probably be doing my Greek reading elsewhere until this feature comes to the Logos mobile app. 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 14 2018 3:22 AM

Yes, please! I see no reason this couldn't be done. Especially if we're willing to have a lexicon or two downloaded to our phone. Just do it... yesterday! 馃槣

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GregW:
I know there are a series of technical challenges in the Logos architecture over making some of these things available offline, but I have to say I'll probably be doing my Greek reading elsewhere until this feature comes to the Logos mobile app. 

Greg, thanks for taking time to share your thoughts on this. You're right-- lookups-- especially offline, could be a lot better on Logos mobile. I'm excited to share that our team has been working on adding key-linking and offline word lookups to Logos mobile. This will be launched as a beta very soon!

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 14 2018 11:58 AM

Daniel Di Bartolo:
This will be launched as a beta very soon!

SUPER! Exciting days, these! 馃槈

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 14 2018 12:07 PM

Thank you Daniel - that’s good news! 


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

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Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 14 2018 1:03 PM

WOw. I can’t believe it. I’ve requested this for years. Thanks, Logos 馃榾.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 15 2018 10:33 PM

I've been using the new beta for the last week or so, and I'm confident you're going to love it. For original language users, this is likely to be as significant a release as the recent v6 release. We're making several important changes that are going to make original language study significantly improved:

  1. Info popup on selection. You'll now get the info popup on selection instead of having to invoke it from the selection menu. Just long or double tap a word and instantly get the original language word info. It's amazingly fast.
  2. Keylink preview in the info popup. Not only do you get the lemma, gloss, and morphological parsing, but you also get a preview of your preferred lexicon right in the popup.
  3. Keylink lookup. "Look up" now executes a keylink and opens to the full entry in your preferred lexicon.
  4. Improved info popup for multi-lemma Hebrew words. We've also improved the info popup for Hebrew words like 讘职旨专值讗砖执讈謻讬转. We'll default to showing you the most important lemma, but you can swipe to quickly view the other lemmas.
  5. Offline. All of this works offline!

Note: 1–3 work in English (and other) Bibles with reverse interlinear alignments, but #5 doesn't yet. That'll require some more work, and we're not sure yet when we'll get to it.

I've created several different split-panel tabs to maximize this new functionality:

  1. Greek NT with English Bible
  2. Greek NT with preferred lexicon
  3. Hebrew OT with English Bible
  4. Hebrew OT with preferred lexicon

Having your original language Bible and your lexicon in the same tab and then executing a keylink lookup is a really great experience for the times you want to dig in to the lexical entries for various lemmas. If you need only the original language word info and keylink preview, you may prefer your original language Bible in a split panel with an English Bible or commentary.

We're also considering (for a future release) adding the same behavior we have on desktop and web, where you can have a Bible and a lexicon in the same link set and click on a word to instantly navigate the lexicon to the corresponding lemma. On mobile we would execute the keylink lookup on long or double tap, removing one step from the process above.

We're looking forward to hearing your feedback on these improvements.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 12:23 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

  • Info popup on selection. You'll now get the info popup on selection instead of having to invoke it from the selection menu. Just long or double tap a word and instantly get the original language word info. It's amazingly fast.
  • Keylink preview in the info popup. Not only do you get the lemma, gloss, and morphological parsing, but you also get a preview of your preferred lexicon right in the popup.
  • Keylink lookup. "Look up" now executes a keylink and opens to the full entry in your preferred lexicon.
  • Improved info popup for multi-lemma Hebrew words. We've also improved the info popup for Hebrew words like 讘职旨专值讗砖执讈謻讬转. We'll default to showing you the most important lemma, but you can swipe to quickly view the other lemmas.
  • Offline. All of this works offline!

Looks good! Gotta run get a towel for my drool! 馃い馃槣

Just to clarify, for this to work offline, am I assuming correctly that at least one Lexicon would need to be downloaded? 

Posts 128
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 3:46 AM

This sounds amazing. Game changer. Couldn’t be more excited. Thanks for listening to our feedback! Can’t wait til it drops  

2 other functions which would make original languages work soo much easier on mobile:

1. The ability to set it up so that my English bible scrolls in sync with original language **no matter which testament**. In other words a setting that allows me to join either LXX to GNT or Heb Ot to Gk NT so that wherever I go in the Bible I have access to both English and the original language  

2. Ability to search within a bible text from that look up window - either to search for the word (in its current declined form) or the ubderlying lemma (or strongs number), or root  

love the progress on the app  I feel that with the improvements you have mentioned plus improved search it will be undeniably the best bible software on the mobile app store! And more importantly it will help people get into God’s word :)

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 4:02 AM

Andrew116:
1. The ability to set it up so that my English bible scrolls in sync with original language **no matter which testament**. In other words a setting that allows me to join either LXX to GNT or Heb Ot to Gk NT

I agree! Support for series would take care of both this issue as well as letting multi-volume commentaries stay in sync. Two birds with one stone... do we dare ask for this, yet?!

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 11:23 AM

Reuben Helmuth:
Looks good! Gotta run get a towel for my drool! 馃い馃槣

Grab two. You'll probably need a backup. Big Smile

Reuben Helmuth:
Just to clarify, for this to work offline, am I assuming correctly that at least one Lexicon would need to be downloaded?

The keylink previews and lookups are reliant on an offline lexicon. The word info isn't. It's embedded in the original language resources, which, of course, would need to be available offline.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 11:41 AM

Andrew116:
This sounds amazing. Game changer. Couldn’t be more excited. Thanks for listening to our feedback! Can’t wait til it drops

Glad to hear. I think many others will feel the same way.

Andrew116:
1. The ability to set it up so that my English bible scrolls in sync with original language **no matter which testament**. In other words a setting that allows me to join either LXX to GNT or Heb Ot to Gk NT so that wherever I go in the Bible I have access to both English and the original language

Good suggestion. We'll look into this.

Andrew116:
2. Ability to search within a bible text from that look up window - either to search for the word (in its current declined form) or the ubderlying lemma (or strongs number), or root  

We're working on how to translate the capabilities of the desktop (and web) context menu to mobile, which would allow you to run searches on things other than the inflected form. That's on the tentative roadmap for Q4.

Do I also hear a request for inline search, or am I reading into your "within a Bible text"? Are you happy with launching searches in the search panel as long as you can run searches on lemmas, or is inline searching just as important to you?

Andrew116:
love the progress on the app  I feel that with the improvements you have mentioned plus improved search it will be undeniably the best bible software on the mobile app store! And more importantly it will help people get into God’s word :)

Thanks for your encouraging feedback.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 16 2018 3:26 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Are you happy with launching searches in the search panel as long as you can run searches on lemmas, or is inline searching just as important to you?

Sorry, I'm not speaking for Andrew! I'm happy with searching in the search panel IF we can "send searches here." 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 17 2018 7:26 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Do I also hear a request for inline search, or am I reading into your "within a Bible text"? Are you happy with launching searches in the search panel as long as you can run searches on lemmas, or is inline searching just as important to you?

I find that 99% of the time when I am on Mobile I want to search the book/Bible I am currently reading. Most mobile reader apps only offer inline search. So, I would suggest prioritizing inline search personally. That would likely be the case for searching for lemmas as well. That's my take, anyway.

Posts 128
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 18 2018 4:42 PM

Yes, Fr Devin has nailed it here. 

I have pretty much given up searching on my mobile devices, it feels so hard to do. In fact I actually tend to leave the Logos app and open another app to do a search (!!)

If I'm reading the ESV bible, and I want to search for the word 'portion', here are the steps (I think) I have to go through. 

  1. Tap the ... at top right.
  2. Tap search
  3. For some reason it has assumed that I want to search my entire library for Deuteronomy 32:8 (the verse I was reading). This is a strange assumption. I press the little (x) in the search box and type 'portion'
  4. I also have to change the search parameters to just 'ESV', so I press 'Entire Library' and scroll down through about 30 items that feel chosen at random. After reading all 30, I discover that 'ESV' is not one of the options. I repeat: the book I was reading when I pressed 'search' is not one of the options to search (?!?). So I tap 'done' and try the 'Bible' option at the top right. 
  5. This time it assumes that I want to search 'top Bibles' (what does this mean? Have I ever told it what my top Bibles are?'). I don't want to do that, I want to search just the ESV. So I click on that... and again, I discover that ESV is not one of the options. 
  6. Close to giving up, I decide just to chose CSB. 
  7. It searches and lists the results in an unhelpful manner (I'll come back to this).

Total number of taps (not counting typing): 8. If I had not made a mistake, it would have been 6 taps. 

Can I suggest that if a search takes 6 taps, minimum, it is probably broken. To a developer, a tap is just a fraction of a second. To a user, a tap is a decision. I have had to make 6 decisions to get to my search results, none of them obvious. 

  • Compare that to the ESV Bible app by Crossway. I tap to bring up the nav bar, tap search, type 'portion', and press search. 3 taps.  All of them obvious. 
  • Compare it to Youversion: 3 taps. (notice that Youversion makes the reasonable assumption that you want to search in the Bible version you are reading).

Accordance: 3 taps. (1) Press the search symbol which is always there. It assumes I want to search the text I am in, though I have the option to change that. (2) Tap 'words' [it assumes I want to search 'verses']. Then type search term. Note that it does not try to guess my search term. This is more helpful than Logos which pre-fills it incorrectly. (4) press search.

In accordance I can also perform a search on a word by highlighting it (1 tap), pressing 'search' in the box (2nd tap), then choosing between 'word' or 'key number' (3rd tap). The search is then done. 

So to conclude: I don't know what the difference is between 'inline' search v search panel, but I just feel that the whole searching process is really arduous and broken... If that means 'prioritising inline search' as Devin says, I agree. It's pretty rare that I want to search anything other than the book I'm reading. I would make the default behaviour 'search what I'm reading', with a subsequent option to broaden the search if people so desire. 

A further thing for the Logos devs to reflect on:

I find that the search results are better laid out in both the ESV app and the Accordance app. 

In Logos, a search of CSB for 'portion' brings up a display where the big black text says Gen 4:4, and then under it in very faint, TINY writing is a verse that I can hardly read, with the search term bolded but the whole thing is so hard to read that I end up just looking at the big black text (Gen 4:4, Gen 31:41, Gen 43:34). In other words it hides the results behind the headings. 

ESV app has the best implementation of display of search results I've ever seen. First of all, it displays the text of the search result in a readable font. The references / text titles are in a font of similar weight and colour, but different font so that I can screen them out and I am able to focus on the Bible texts themselves as I look for the one I want. But the real kicker is the way they collapse results, giving you just the top 2 for each book of the bible with a link to 'see more' from that book. Because the Bible is a LONG book, if I know that the reference I'm after is somewhere in the prophets, I can scroll right past the pentateuch easily. In the Logos app this takes a LONG time because (a) it shows every single reference by default, and (b) for some reason it keeps having to pause to load more results (??)

Accordance app is really nice for word studies. The focus is almost entirely on the texts of the results themselves. The reference is in tiny font, and the text of the results is big. The search term itself is highlighted in a different colour. This means I can scroll down really quickly and see in each case what the verse says and how the word is being used.

In essence, it seems like the Logos devs have assumed that the thing I most care about in search results is the place the result is found. This is false. I only  care about that if the result is helpful to me, and to do that I need to be able to read the results easily. 

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 19 2018 6:46 AM

Andrew116:
I would make the default behaviour 'search what I'm reading'

I agree! Furthermore, if I'm in a Bible (especially executing a search from a long-tap on a word), then the search should default to a "Bible" search rather than "Basic". Doing a long-tap on a word in the ESV and selecting search should NOT default to doing a Basic search in "recent resources"!

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 20 2018 3:48 AM

Aw, I dreamed that I woke up to see a notification that this was available already, then I actually woke up.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 20 2018 3:57 AM

Great news for offline lookup functionality. I really look forward to it! Yes

My experience of mobile searches has also been dismal. I generally don't and when every blue moon I attempt one again, I regret it and give up. Resource choice is arcane and the search itself is incredibly slow and results poorly displayed. This indeed would be the next big thing to improve imo on the mobile platform. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 20 2018 5:16 PM

Andrew116:
It's pretty rare that I want to search anything other than the book I'm reading. I would make the default behaviour 'search what I'm reading', with a subsequent option to broaden the search if people so desire. 

Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes!

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 20 2018 5:24 PM

Andrew116:
If I'm reading the ESV bible, and I want to search for the word 'portion', here are the steps (I think) I have to go through.

The resource you're in is listed in the "Entire Library" / "Top Bibles" menus, but it's at the very bottom of your list. The other items are collections you've created.

So, if the word you're search for is in the text, you can do it in four taps:

  1. Select "portion" and tap search.
  2. Tap "Bible" to switch to a Bible search.
  3. Tap "Top Bibles", and scroll right to the bottom of the list.
  4. Tap on the ESV.

If the word you're searching for isn't in the text, it's a lot more taps, as you discovered:

  1. Tap the screen to bring up the UI.
  2. Tap the menu in the top right.
  3. Tap search
  4. Tap the "X" to delete the suggested search criteria
  5. Type in your search term
  6. Tap "Bible" to switch to a Bible search.
  7. Tap "Top Bibles", and scroll right to the bottom of the list.
  8. Tap on the ESV.

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