Logos Mobile Ed for Verbum Customers?

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Posts 2493
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 5 2018 11:52 AM

Why is Faithlife sending me Verbum emails about Logos Mobile Ed courses that contain no Catholic content? Why doesn't the Verbum marketing language indicate that none of the advertised content is Catholic? (Also, why are some of the links to Logos.com and some to Verbum.com?)

Are Catholics no longer able to trust that Verbum content is Catholic?

Is Verbum no longer Catholic?

What happened to "Verbum is your digital platform for studying the Catholic faith. By giving you unparalleled access to a vast number of Catholic books, it will transform the way you interact with the Tradition"?

Has the unavoidable future reticence of priests and bishops, lay theologians, catechists, etc., to recommend Verbum to the faithful at large been wholly ignored? Has it at least been costed out by Faithlife? 

Do the public endorsers of Verbum, including Catholic bishops, support the targeted marketing of Protestant materials to unsuspecting Catholics?

Is the loss of trust in Verbum on the part of Catholics generally something that has been well and truly considered?

Or was this whole marketing effort a mistake that will now be learned from and not repeated?

Posts 45
LogosEmployee
Thomas Gette | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 6 2018 11:18 AM

Hey, SineNomine,

I first want to stress that Verbum is most certainly Catholic, that has not and never will change.

I actually gave approval for this messaging to be sent out (and only had it send to people who either already own MobileEd products or have purchased non-Verbum products). Since the offering was specifically about 'Perspectives' courses, I thought it would be an opportunity for Verbum customers to explore a bit more of these issues in their various nuances and differences (think educational ecumenism). It's my approach to a (w)holistic approach to understanding the state of affairs of different theological and biblical interpretations. I find that it helps us foster better and more fruitful conversations. Since these courses are about multiple theological views, I figured it might be a bit more "neutral" in this regard.

On the other side, part of this is a hope of mine to gradually get Catholic participants in these 'Perspectives' courses, and eventually (God willing) to have Catholic-exclusive content in MobileEd. Part of the inspiration for this is Scott Hahn's recent participation in our Perspectives course on Justification: https://verbum.com/products/150390/mobile-ed-th351-perspectives-on-justification-by-faith-five-views-on-its-meaning-and-significance

I find that we can make a bigger impact in healing the wounds of division in the Body by engaging in exercises and dialogue about these topics.

However, as a long-standing and active customer I value your insight beyond just some idea I have, so if you (and others) find that this still might serve more of a negative purpose, then I will most certainly reconsider the strategy for (not) doing something like this in the future.

I appreciate the feedback...and that you're reading our emails. :)

Posts 2493
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 5:48 AM

Thomas Gette:
I first want to stress that Verbum is most certainly Catholic, that has not and never will change.

Excellent.

Thomas Gette:
I actually gave approval for this messaging to be sent out (and only had it send to people who either already own MobileEd products or have purchased non-Verbum products).

That makes sense. I didn't know that you had done that, or even that (without unreasonable difficulty) you could.

Thomas Gette:
Since the offering was specifically about 'Perspectives' courses, I thought it would be an opportunity for Verbum customers to explore a bit more of these issues in their various nuances and differences (think educational ecumenism). It's my approach to a (w)holistic approach to understanding the state of affairs of different theological and biblical interpretations. I find that it helps us foster better and more fruitful conversations. Since these courses are about multiple theological views, I figured it might be a bit more "neutral" in this regard.

The exploring different perspectives aspect I appreciate, especially given that you targeted the email only to people who already have. What I would have really appreciated--what, in fact, would have kept me from starting this thread--would be a note in the email that none of the perspectives in the courses were Catholic ones. (Something like, "While none of the perspectives given in these courses are Catholic ones, it can be valuable to learn how others understand the faith", and, for bonus points, links to a couple resources--even if not on sale--that do include Catholic perspectives on these exact issues. You might even sell more stuff that way. Smile)

I'm not strictly opposed to Verbum marketing non-Catholic products to Verbum customers; after all, I am a Verbum customer and I buy non-Catholic products. What's important to me, and, I think, many/most other Catholics who (successfully) recommend Verbum to others is that it be clear in Verbum's marketing that they are non-Catholic products--whether Protestant, Orthodox, or whatever (as well as why they're being marketed to Verbum customers, of course, which your email did provide). My underlying fear in all this, in case it didn't come through clearly enough above, is that Catholics who don't (yet) have a significant catechetical/theological foundation would accidentally buy materials that aren't Catholic under the belief that they are, or that they at least include the Catholic point of view when they in fact do not. Your specific targeting of the email, which I didn't know about, mitigates that possibility to a real degree, but in the future, I hope that further such marketing will make it clear what content is and is not Catholic.

Thomas Gette:
On the other side, part of this is a hope of mine to gradually get Catholic participants in these 'Perspectives' courses, and eventually (God willing) to have Catholic-exclusive content in MobileEd. Part of the inspiration for this is Scott Hahn's recent participation in our Perspectives course on Justification: https://verbum.com/products/150390/mobile-ed-th351-perspectives-on-justification-by-faith-five-views-on-its-meaning-and-significance

I definitely strongly support those efforts.

Thomas Gette:
I find that we can make a bigger impact in healing the wounds of division in the Body by engaging in exercises and dialogue about these topics.

I agree.

Thomas Gette:
However, as a long-standing and active customer I value your insight beyond just some idea I have, so if you (and others) find that this still might serve more of a negative purpose, then I will most certainly reconsider the strategy for (not) doing something like this in the future.

I think it can be done, under the make-it-clearer-what-you're-doing condition I gave above. And I appreciate your gracious response to my much stronger than usual feedback.

Thomas Gette:
I appreciate the feedback...and that you're reading our emails. :)

I can't say I read them all in detail, but I do pretty well at least skim them all.

Posts 45
LogosEmployee
Thomas Gette | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 9:05 AM

Thank you much for your thorough and kind response.

I think you're 100% correct that in the future I need to be sure to include some kind of disclaimer messaging about the nature of the products, just to erase any ambiguity or risk of someone purchasing something and feeling mislead when they discover the content is not explicitly Catholic.

Also, in an instance such as this, it is a great idea to include some Verbum/Catholic resources to kind of server as the Catholic perspective (if there is not a Catholic speaker in the course, or whatever the case may be).

It is easy to be stuck in your world and forget people aren't thinking the way you are thinking (which leads to assumptions about that might not be mentioned, such as was the case with this MobileEd email), and for people who are newly discovering Verbum, we need to be sure that they feel that they can trust it as a Catholic product, intended to serve their Catholic faith.

Thank you for your invaluable feedback!

Posts 377
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 16 2018 11:19 AM

Thomas Gette:

Hey, SineNomine,

I first want to stress that Verbum is most certainly Catholic, that has not and never will change.

I actually gave approval for this messaging to be sent out (and only had it send to people who either already own MobileEd products or have purchased non-Verbum products). Since the offering was specifically about 'Perspectives' courses, I thought it would be an opportunity for Verbum customers to explore a bit more of these issues in their various nuances and differences (think educational ecumenism). It's my approach to a (w)holistic approach to understanding the state of affairs of different theological and biblical interpretations. I find that it helps us foster better and more fruitful conversations. Since these courses are about multiple theological views, I figured it might be a bit more "neutral" in this regard.

On the other side, part of this is a hope of mine to gradually get Catholic participants in these 'Perspectives' courses, and eventually (God willing) to have Catholic-exclusive content in MobileEd. Part of the inspiration for this is Scott Hahn's recent participation in our Perspectives course on Justification: https://verbum.com/products/150390/mobile-ed-th351-perspectives-on-justification-by-faith-five-views-on-its-meaning-and-significance

I find that we can make a bigger impact in healing the wounds of division in the Body by engaging in exercises and dialogue about these topics.

However, as a long-standing and active customer I value your insight beyond just some idea I have, so if you (and others) find that this still might serve more of a negative purpose, then I will most certainly reconsider the strategy for (not) doing something like this in the future.

I appreciate the feedback...and that you're reading our emails. :)

This Perspectives on Justification course looks like it's going to be pretty awesome. I'll definitely keep it on my radar. I hope Logos continues to do more and more "educational ecumenicism" projects like this one that include more than just Evangelical Protestant perspectives. It's cool that you included an Eastern perspective and not just the various Western ones.

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