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David L Whitaker | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jun 6 2018 7:06 PM

I presently own Logos 6 platinum and have a subscription to Logos now, so I am utilizing Logos 7.   BibleWorks is going out of business and is offering their base package for $199.00.   I have compared the original language tools in Logos to the tools listed in Bibleworks and there isn't much in common.   Would I be better off securing the BibleWorks  or using other original language tools available in Logos?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 3:55 AM

Thread => Bringing Your BibleWorks User Content to Logos includes Faithlife reply on Wed 6/6

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Anthony Lipscomb:
Is there an estimated timeframe for when Logos packages for BW users might be offered? Accordance has already released a few options.

We're aiming for Friday.

Thankful for Blog => How to Use Logos Like a BibleWorks Pro

Thread => offline mss images includes pre-publication link => https://www.logos.com/product/34087/the-old-and-new-testament-manuscripts-in-the-freer-collection 

David L Whitaker:
BibleWorks is going out of business and is offering their base package for $199.00.

BibleWorks 10 includes 22 GB of resources at an incredible price (until 15 June 2018)

BibleWorks 10:

It contains more than 250 Bible translations in 40+ languages, 45 original language texts and morphology databases, 30 lexical-grammatical references, and a wealth of practical reference works. Reference works include Greek and Hebrew vocabulary flashcards and pronunciation; Bible maps; Holy Land images; the Greek New Testament read aloud and fully diagrammed; Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew grammars; full transcriptions and image sets for both the Leningrad Codex and nine of the most important Greek New Testament manuscripts; and the full CNTTS New Testament apparatus.

Faithlife currently offers 289 Bibles => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Resource+Type=Bibles&Status=Live in 27 languages. Top 3 Languages: English (154), Greek (73), Hebrew (28)

Faithlife Language Greek => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&Language=Greek&pageSize=60 has 19 Resource Types, which includes Center for New Testament Textual Studies' New Testament Critical Apparatus (CNTTS) plus Greek Audio New Testament along with 67 Ancient Texts => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&Language=Greek&pageSize=60&Resource+Type=Ancient+Texts

Faithlife Language Hebrew => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&Language=Hebrew&pageSize=60 has 18 Resource Types, which includes 19 Ancient Texts => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&Language=Hebrew&pageSize=60&Resource+Type=Ancient+Texts

Textual Variants Collection (48 vols.) needs Logos 7 Bronze or higher for Online Manuscripts

Faithlife currently offers 211 Grammars => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Live&pageSize=60&Resource+Type=Grammars

Faithlife group => Logos Sentence Diagrams includes Greek Sentence Diagrams by Terry Cook (shared documents). Group => Logos Flashcards App has many vocabulary lists shared.

Keep Smiling Smile

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 6:36 AM

I have been using both BW and Logos for many years. BW is a great value for what you get, especially as it relates to studying OL. My concern is that you are investing in a product that is discontinued with the hope that it will keep up with technology. The BW exit plan is not, in my opinion, a valid one, but a patch until it doesn't work anymore. I am surprised at the number of first time BW users interested in buying a product where there is no guarantee of it continuing to work.

If it was me, I would invest in a company that is more committed to the long term.

I am sad and sympathize with BW's decision, but as a consumer am concerned that they failed to provide a more solid plan of continuity for the customers that have invested in their product.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 8:30 AM

As a very long term user of BW (back when it was advertised as Hermeneutika!) I almost bought the going out of business price for 10, since I've been on version 8.  Ultimately however, I determined that my reasons for doing so were not only emotional, but also unwise for the reason you indicate John.  

Ultimately there is no guarantee that BW will work in six months.  I find it extremely likely it will continue to work for years yet, but without support and with Microsoft Windows Patch Tuesday ruining things randomly since it started - there remains no guarantee.

I will continue to use BW8 until it doesn't work.  But I am sincerely looking forward to the planned import tool that Logos talked about in yesterday's blog.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 10037
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 8:49 AM

John Fidel:

 I am surprised at the number of first time BW users interested in buying a product where there is no guarantee of it continuing to work.

That invites a reply. Smiling.

First, Logos’ future is Bob’s future. Very simple. When he sells, it’s someone else. And as the BW guy mentioned, the next owner will have their own agenda. BW didn’t accept that equation.

Second, I don’t see Logos as a BW equiv. Its cadallac pricing model and movement to a church orientation (Proclaim, management, etc) is its future (which I support). But Accordance is a far better fit for BW’ers.

Third, I purchase hard copy, Accordance, OliveTree, and now BW simply because Logos is missing a lot of obvious basics. Library selection by crowd-appeal has its merits ... just which crowd?


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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 8:57 AM

Denise:
Second, I don’t see Logos as a BW equiv. Its cadallac pricing model and movement to a church orientation (Proclaim, management, etc) is its future (which I support)

Reflecting on this - I don't see Logos moving to a church orientation (other than providing technology to support the church) but Faithlife has certainly extended into that area and I expect will continue to do so. And I don't think it's just a naming distinction but it does raise the question as to whether Faithlife can put the necessary focus into the Logos part of the business with all the different things, and associated pressures, that Faithlife is involved in. And how much the Logos focus is linked to the rest of the Faithlife portfolio.

And I know that there are different views on the answer to that question! 

Posts 2298
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2018 10:38 AM

John Fidel:

I have been using both BW and Logos for many years. BW is a great value for what you get, especially as it relates to studying OL. My concern is that you are investing in a product that is discontinued with the hope that it will keep up with technology. The BW exit plan is not, in my opinion, a valid one, but a patch until it doesn't work anymore. I am surprised at the number of first time BW users interested in buying a product where there is no guarantee of it continuing to work.

If it was me, I would invest in a company that is more committed to the long term.

I am sad and sympathize with BW's decision, but as a consumer am concerned that they failed to provide a more solid plan of continuity for the customers that have invested in their product.

Well stated. Agree

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 8:05 AM

Denise, 

Laughing... How does your reply in anyway respond to my post. BW has discontinued selling it's product and hopes to be able to keep BW10 working as the technology world moves forward. That is not the best exit plan for a business or ministry. Michael, the owner, is 70 and has no one that I know of to support BW if something happens to him. I just do not think it is in the consumer's best interest to buy a product that does not have a plan that provides for continuity. Nothing is guaranteed with technology, but at least the other companies you mentioned have a plan for continuity as technology changes.

I never stated Logos was the best replacement for BW. You stated it wasn't,  but not in reply to my post. As for Logos vs Accordance, they are both excellent and it depends on the customer which is best. They are both great companies; neither are a complete match for BW10. (now you have my opinion)

I hope your BW purchase works out for you. It is a great deal for what it provides. Just wish the plan for continuity was better established.

Posts 8
David L Whitaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 9:40 AM

John,

Does everything in BW work OK in the windows 10 environment?  Do you believe the product will be stable over the next 2 to 3 years?   It appears that I would have to spend considerably more with Logos to pick up the resources available in BW.   Never having studied the OL, perhaps what I already have in my Platinum library is sufficient.   What say ye?

Posts 10037
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 9:57 AM

John Fidel:

Denise, 

Laughing... How does your reply in anyway respond to my post.  ... 

I hope your BW purchase works out for you. It is a great deal for what it provides. Just wish the plan for continuity was better established.

Well, it’s just a matter of time  ... BW vs not-BW (I guess on a Logos forum you weren’t referring to Logos). I plan to use BW well into the period when not-BW will be in question.

Again, smiling.


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Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 12:08 PM

David,

There is a learning curve with BW10 you need to consider. It is not necessarily intuitive.  I think the program will live in Windows longer than Mac, as it is a Windows program. I know Michael, the owner, is sincere in his desire to keep it running, but lose your activation code and you can't install on the next computer... no replacement; no support other than the forum etc.

So I am hopeful because I have used BW since version 3. Time goes quickly. Just know what you are getting into before investing. No refunds. I do not want to drive sales from BW, but I see it possibly from a more long-term perspective.

Hope that helps. You may get other input by posting on the bibleworks forum.

Posts 10037
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 12:54 PM

So's not to over-state the BW case, I thought for some, why BW might be a good addition to Logos.  Below are stuff I'd really like to have but don't foresee in Logos ('foreseeable' seems a popular software term). Plus, BW has what looks like support for sub-searches (I have that in my own software).

- NETS. I have it in OT but it'd be nice to pair with some LXX and hebrew-english material

- Broader grouping of Peshitta translations

- Broader grouping of targumim

- Samaritan Pent (wow)

- Hi- res downloaded mss images with image editing; some morph'd

- Alford's NT, several Friberg NT resources, Orthodox versions, RP 2010, and Tisch's NT w/apparatus

- Tregalles (2) and Von Soden

- Two (count them!) Japanese Bibles 


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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 8 2018 2:19 PM

Denise:

So's not to over-state the BW case, I thought for some, why BW might be a good addition to Logos.  Below are stuff I'd really like to have but don't foresee in Logos ('foreseeable' seems a popular software term). Plus, BW has what looks like support for sub-searches (I have that in my own software).

- NETS. I have it in OT but it'd be nice to pair with some LXX and hebrew-english material

- Broader grouping of Peshitta translations

- Broader grouping of targumim

- Samaritan Pent (wow)

- Hi- res downloaded mss images with image editing; some morph'd

- Alford's NT, several Friberg NT resources, Orthodox versions, RP 2010, and Tisch's NT w/apparatus

- Tregalles (2) and Von Soden

- Two (count them!) Japanese Bibles 

Denise, it has been a great program for years that has complimented Logos well. No disagreement from me as I have been a fan since version 3.

Items you did not mention that are great:

CNTTS apparatus is included with a very good search tool

Graphical Search Engine

KWIC

Manuscript Images  with verse references

much more..

However, for those not proficient in the OL it is much more difficult to adapt to and use than Accordance or Logos:

No reverse interlinears

No sympathetic highlighting

I personally find Hebrew difficult because of my lack of proficiency.

The "resources" are in a CHM file format that is awkward at best. Very hard to just open and read or even use, especially the church fathers and the Babylonian Talmud.

I do not care for how the OL text and Morph are in two separate tools, rather than tagged as they are with Logos and Accordance. It takes getting used to.

Installation, especially on a Mac requires following specific instructions, not automatic like many programs today.

For a new user with no refund policy these should be considered... as well as the fact that it is discontinued as of June 15th.

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