Kyle & Craig: Tagging on Toal, M. F., ed. The Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2018 2:10 AM

Re: the recently released Toal, M. F., ed. The Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers. Translated by M. F. Toal. Vol. 1–4. San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2000. Am I simply tired and not thinking clearly? Or am I having the bad luck of choosing bad examples? Or are these sermons not tagged as sermons (with scripture reference as lection printed at beginning of chapter) and are the church fathers not assigned their appropriate milestones?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 11 2018 8:09 AM

We only apply the Sermon Label scheme to whole sermons. Since these are a collection of excerpts, it didn't receive the sermon tagging.

It's not really a commentary in the classical sense but I'm wondering if it would make sense to change it to a Bible Commentary and add Bible milestones. It certainly deserves exposure via the Passage Guide.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 11 2018 8:47 AM

MJ. Smith:
and are the church fathers not assigned their appropriate milestones?

That would not be good at all.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 11 2018 11:16 AM

Kyle G. Anderson:
It's not really a commentary in the classical sense but I'm wondering if it would make sense to change it to a Bible Commentary and add Bible milestones.

I suspect that would add to the confusion unless you converted all lectionary-driven sermon sets to Bible Commentaries.

Kyle G. Anderson:
We only apply the Sermon Label scheme to whole sermons.

I would think that the sermons are complete sermons - a few appear to be excerpted but most appear to be complete. Could you double-check? Don't get confused by the catena (excerpts) that appear between the lections and the sermons. I'd be able to check the degree of excerpting if the fathers of the church had the appropriate milestones. I'm having no luck finding a footnote that is linked (each sermon has a footnote giving source).

In addition this set should be included in the automatic Church Fathers collection shouldn't it? All in all I am very frustrated with this resource.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 12 2018 8:45 AM

OK. I see what you're getting at about the sermons. Looks like there is more than enough entire sermons to justify adding the label scheme. We'll work on getting it added.

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MJ. Smith:

In addition this set should be included in the automatic Church Fathers collection shouldn't it? 

MJ, can you clarify what you mean by "the automatic Church Fathers collection?"  Just wanted to be clear on what collection you thought this resource should be included with.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 12 2018 2:22 PM

Thanks Kyle - I can see how it was easily missed.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 12 2018 2:39 PM

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
can you clarify what you mean by "the automatic Church Fathers collection?"

In Verbum (but not Logos), there are three "automatic" i.e. Faithlife defined collections - Church Fathers, Church Documents and Catechism. The easiest place to see them in in a basic search  "in" <collection name>.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith:

In Verbum (but not Logos), there are three "automatic" i.e. Faithlife defined collections - Church Fathers, Church Documents and Catechism. The easiest place to see them in in a basic search  "in" <collection name>.

Ah, I see what you mean now.  Thanks for the clarification.  Was thinking you were referring to another product/collection to which this should be added.

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Greg Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 23 2018 6:47 AM

I'd like to thank MJ for pointing out these two situations, the sermon label and the "defined" collections in Verbum.  I just purchased this product too and assumed that the tagging and collection inclusion would have been part of the finished product.  These seem like pretty important things and should be included as part of this product to really make it robust.  That's part of the benefit of having an digital version of the product.  That additional functionality is what makes it useful.

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