older books

Larry Craig

Thompson, John L.. __Reading the Bible with the Dead: What You Can Learn From the History

of Exegesis That You Can't Learn From Exegesis Alone__. Eerdmans. 2007. Paperback.

324pp. Slightly edge worn laminated paperback. $9 [633145]

Brandon, S. G. F.. __The Fall of Jerusalem and the Christian Church: A Study of the Effects of

the Jewish Overthrow of A.D. 70 on Christianity__. S. P. C. K.. 1968. Hardcover with dust

jacket. 294pp. G/G. Ex-library. Foxing/yellowing to outer edge of leaves. Mylar covered dust

jacket slightly edge worn. $27 [633036]

Mid-'40s
1) Talking
2) Chewing gum
3) Making noise
4) Running in the halls
5) Getting out of turn in line
6) Wearing improper clothing
7) Not putting paper in wastebaskets

Mid-'80s
1) Drug Abuse
2) Alcohol Abuse
3) Pregnancy
4) Suicide
5) Rape
6) Robbery
7) Assault

(Source: Time Magazine, February 1, 1988)
Tex Ayers

Has Logos given up on older books? I’m guessing that older books were marketed entirely through Community Pricing.

I know when I first started with Logos, books were continually added to CM, and books were continually coming off it. But then the books being offered started growing at a faster pace than those that were coming off, and the whole program seemed to be abandoned.

I remember being told when I was in school doing papers that priority should be given to books published in the last ten years, and I agree that Biblical studies is certainly an area of research that builds on the work of the past. New discoveries do make a difference.

Yet the Bible is unlike other books, and Bible studies is far more than just reading the latest books. The Bible is a book to be meditated on, and you would be surprised to read authors who didn’t have all the modern possible sources of distraction.

There is no end to collections of books of writers from the early church through the Reformation. New editions, of course, but the writers are ancient. Pastors are encouraged to read Spurgeon, but we don’t read the books that he read.

I started my Biblical studies in the 60s before the flood of Christian books on the America market. The best books seemed to be mostly from Europe, and I regularly dealt with dozens of used book stores on the continent and in the States.

All I can say is that there were giants in those days, and we neglect them at our loss. Logos would do well to have someone explore the older books and then sell them to the rest of us. It's like buried treasure.

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Comments

Bruce Dunning

Larry, thanks for your observations about older books. I would concur with your observations about the importance of newer works for study while also not neglecting older resources, many of which are classics or have much to offer.

You are also right that older books have, for the most part, been handled through Community Pricing. I'm only add that Community Pricing books are primarily public domain books.

If you have specific books you'd like to see in Logos be sure to make them known through the Suggestions forum and promote them here to try to get votes to support your cause.

David Ames

I remember being told when I was in school doing papers that priority should be given to books published in the last ten years, and I agree that Biblical studies is certainly an area of research that builds on the work of the past. New discoveries do make a difference.

The problem is that in order to make money you can not just say that those old timers got it right - why would anyone buy your book if that is all you say? So you HAVE to find 'errors' in their arguments to make money. Is the current author right or just trying to make money?

The Scriptures have been around for a long time. Who is or was right? The early church 'fathers', those of the middle ages, the winners of the 1850s, the losers of the 1850 wars, or todays author?

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982757#Comment_982757

Over the months I have sent dozens of list of books, not all 'old', to suggest@logos.com. Are you saying that is the wrong place?

I have been working through Spurgeon's, Carson's, Longman's, Custer's and other's bibliographies of recommended books. There are many highly recommended books that Logos seems unaware of.

Are you suggesting that a book needs a certain number of other people wanting the same book before Logos will act?

Logos is a ministry, but it is also a business. The more books they can sell, the more they can grow. I think Logos should take the responsibility to search out good books, like taking the recommendations of people like Spurgeon and these others and then sell other people on the value of these books. If I need to get other people to 'vote' for these books, 1) I don't make any money to make it worth my time, like a business 2) too many Bible students today don't know the older writers, and how am I going to win them over? Make it my life's work? 3) my time and energy are limited. (Chemo is taking a lot out of me. Don't have the umph like I used to.)

Thank you

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982770#Comment_982770

I believe part of the problem is the time and expense (and therefore the pay back) in tagging resources into the Logos format. Personally I'd be far happier to have in eBook format without the tagging than not at all.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982771#Comment_982771

I've worked in business most of my life. Logos knows what it costs to produce a book. Even with Community Pricing, the book had to reach a certain threshold before they would publish it. My bigger concern is that they aren't even trying to sell these books. It seems they've just given up. Go read what Spurgeon has to say about a lot of books in his book on commentaries. The new books give the latest discoveries, but many of the old books feed the soul. If you see Logos as a ministry, then they need to produce more books that minister.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982773#Comment_982773

Older works are often impossible to get rights for... community pricing works because they are almost always public domain works. I know Bob stated works published (I believe it was circa 1945-1990) often have fallen into an area that makes it extremely hard to get production rights. I agree there are a number of super works that are still extremely valuable, but we likely will not see them in Logos till they fall into public domain which may be decades or longer off...

-dan

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982775#Comment_982775

There are still hundreds of books in Community Pricing now that I would gladly pay much more than they are worth to see them published. Many of them I already own in print, but I am very happy to pay twice for a book to have it in this format.

While there are many books that Logos may never get the rights for, I want Logos to try harder to get all these good books in CP published. It seems they gave up. Maybe not enough younger scholars today know the value of these books. Again, I believe it's Logos' duty to make the case for them.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982776#Comment_982776

It seems they gave up.

They didn't give up, but resources (time & money) are limited... finite. There was a purge of CP resources because there were TOO many resources with TOO little interest to gain traction. The goal of the purge was to provide greater interest in the fewer resources, and in so doing, to help them to get developed.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982778#Comment_982778

You know more about what's going on than I do, but I haven't seen a peep about CP in a very long time. Yes, there are a number of bundles that I think are of limited interest (Ukrainian history), but there are valuable works that have sat there for years. Names like Rudolf Stier don't mean much to a lot of people today, but when you read what other people say about him and read him for yourself, you wish other people could read him too..

I have offered suggestions for getting books out of CP but to no avail.

You talk about limited time and money. They wouldn't spend the money until they had the financing in place, so it's just the cost of having people write blogs promoting the books. They are already writing blogs that don't seem connected to future sales, so this should be no problem.

You say the goal of the purge was to provide greater interest in the fewer resources. Not happening. I'll stick with my original assessment. "It seems they gave up."

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982779#Comment_982779

So which is the single book you are dying to have in Logos which you want to promote?

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982780#Comment_982780

One??? I've sent dozens of emails to suugest@logos.com with books that I wanted to see. If you want, I will look through CP and find some. Get back to you.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982780#Comment_982780

Classic commentaries on Colossians

There are always gems in these classic collections, some more than others.

Classic commentaries on Mark

They used to throw in some foreign language commentaries in these bundles. This one has Lagrange, a classic.

Classic commentaries on John

This has works by John Brown, MacLaren, Zahn, and Luecke.

Classic commentaries on Revelation

This has Vaughan, Seiss, Milligan, Desprez, de Wette, and Boussuet.

Classic commentaries on Ecclesiastes

This has Genung, Elliott, Murphy, Durham, Lewis.

Life and Works of George MacDonald

CS Lewis was MacDonald’s biggest fan. Nobody would know about him if it wasn’t for Lewis.

The Speaker’s Commentary 13 vol.

The Biblical Illustrator

I have this in hardback and in another Bible program, but I would buy it again to have it in Logos.

Lenten Sermons

This has James Parker, H P Liddon, Bickersteth, Sadler, and who else?

Posthumous works of Thomas Chalmers

The Logos blurb sold me on this. See?

Classic Studies on Old Testament Theology

This has Schultz, Davidson, Hengstengberg (4 vo), Brown, Kurtz, Lindsay.

Classic commentaries on Job

This has Genung, McFayden, Bullinger, Davidson, Gibson, Umbreit, and Peake.

Classic commentaries on Jonah

The Life of our Lord upon the Earth

Samuel Andrews highest praise by Spurgeon, or was it someone else?

The Works of Richard Chenevix Trench

This has his works on the parables, the miracles, Proverbs, sermons, Sermon on the Mount, etc.

Select Life and Works of Matthew Henry

This has sermons and other Bible works.

B F Westcott on Christianity

Biblical Studies on B F Westcott

Kendrick’s Translation of the Vulgate with Commentary 6 vol

His extensive commentary consults important Hebrew and Greek textual differences and quotes from the theological thoughts of the Early Church Fathers—especially St. Jerome, St. Chrysostom, and St. Basil.

Classic commentaries on Isaiah

This has Driver’s classic work on Isaiah 53, plus Whitehouse, Kelly, Smith, Henderson, Durham.

The Catholic Encyclopedia

I wrote Verbum about this. This should be a part of their basic package. I’ll take a set too.

Classic commentaries on Proverbs

This has Parker and a commentary by Ibn Ezra.

Classic commentaries on Hebrews

This has Tholuck, Dickson, Steward, Lindsay, Nairne, Reuss, and Kurtz.

Classic commentaries on Psalms

This has Bush, Barnes, Kelly, Davison, Kimhi

Classic commentaries on Luke

Select Works of Joseph A. Seiss

Collected Sermons of BF Westcott

Classic commentaries and studies on Johannine Literature

This has Nicoll, Ramsay, Dennett, and Gloag.

Plain Sermons

Sermons by Newman, Pusey, Keble

Classic commentaries on Matthew

This has Dickson, McNeile, Zahn, Heinrici, Slater, McGarvey, and de Valdes.

The Collected Works of John Nelson Darby

JJ van Oosterzee Theological Studies Collection

Classic commentaries on Jeremiah

This has works by Henderson, Meyer, and Parker.

Classic commentaries on Acts

This has works by Baumgarten, Zeller, Owen, Parker, Thomas, Rendall, Sadler, Jones, Cook, Arnot, and others.

Sutcliffe’s Commentary on the Old and New Testament

W.O.E. Oesterley Studies on Judaism and the Old Testament (17 vols.)

W.O.E. Oesterley was one of the most distinguished modern scholars of Judaism and the Hebrew Bible. A prolific author, Oesterly’s body of work left an enduring impact on how we read the Old Testament. Though a brilliant scholar, he was attentive to the needs of the common reader. He delivered insights from complex scholarship to Christians who wouldn’t normally have access to such information.

This has his commentaries on Psalms, Proverbs, and Apocrypha and other important works

Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies

He does an excellent job on synonyms. Much needed.

The Works of Rudolf Stier (12 vols.)

The Works of Rudolf Stier (12 vols.) includes all of the English translations of the German Protestant churchman and mystic Rudolf Ewald Stier. Stier's timeless 8-volume commentary series, The Words of the Lord Jesus, provides in-depth focus on the words and sayings of Jesus in the gospels. By unpacking the words of Jesus, Stier's commentaries engage the nuances and subtext behind each dialogue, revealing deep meaning and extraordinary joy found beneath the surface. Stier follows the same format in Words of the Apostles, his detailed study of the dialogues of the apostles found in Acts, and in The Words of the Angels, Stier explores the impact and meaning of the words spoken by the messengers of God.

Classic Commentaries and Studies on the General and Pastoral Epistles (16 vols.)

This includes works by Gload, Sumner, Hillard, Kelly, and Strachan.

Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis

This has works by Delitzsch, Bush, Jacobus, Simon, Preston, and others.

Select Works of James Durham (4 vols.)

This has his classic on Job.

Classic Commentaries and Studies on Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy Upgrade (14 vols.)

This has Seiss, Kennedy, Kelly, Saxe, Simon, Genung, Gibson, and Betterridge

Untersuchung über den Hebräerbrief (2 Bände)

This is by Wieseler.

Isaak August Dorner Collection (12 vols.)

Nineteenth century Lutheran Church leader Isaak August Dorner traced the roots of doctrine in a way never seen before. In his major works, History of the Development of the Doctrine of the Person of Christ and A System of Christian Doctrine, Dorner presents historical evidence and philosophical proofs for Christian doctrine as they were understood in his time. He tracks important theological ideas back to their conception and identifies their contribution to Christian theology as a whole.

Patrologia Syriaca (vols. 1–2) and Orientalis (vols. 1–14, 16)

I have enough work that I want to do to last me three lifetimes. I don’t know where I will end up, so I think big.

The Anglican Pulpit Library (6 vols.)

Trapp's Commentary (5 vols.)

John Trapp’s five-volume commentary, first published in 1649, has been a favorite source of biblical wit and wisdom ever since. Trapp has never lacked an audience, and has been loved by preachers and teachers throughout the years. At times an academic, a pastor, and a soldier, Trapp communicated his wide range of life experience in his unique blend of scholarship, practical counsel, and storytelling. He brings the artistry of the English Renaissance to his biblical commentary, which is as valuable as literature as it is as instruction. Trapp’s distinct personal voice distinguishes this commentary from others, and makes it a timeless classic

The Expositor’s Dictionary of Texts (2 vols.)

The Expositor’s Dictionary of Texts provides outlines, expositions, and homiletic illustrations of each verse of the Bible, presented in biblical order. Much more thorough and complete than The Expositor’s Dictionary of Poetical Quotations, this reference work selects the best of ancient, classical, medieval, and modern quotations on each verse of the Bible, giving full citations at the end of each quotation.

Bampton Lecture Series, 1780–1920 (127 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Edinburgh (19 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Glasgow (17 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Aberdeen (13 vols.)

James Macknight’s Commentary on the Apostolic Epistles (6 vols.)

Patrologiae Cursus Completus, Series Graeca, Part 1 (vols. 1–18)

Peake’s Commentary on the Bible

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at St. Andrews (15 vols.)

Charles Augustus Briggs Collection (15 vols.)

One of the editors of BDB. This bundle has a number of important works.

Encyclopaedia Biblica (4 vols.)

I still see this referred to a lot, and my copy is buried in a room where my wife has piled a lot of her stuff, and I would have to climb over a lot of things to get to it, so I don’t.

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graeca (167 vols.)

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Latina (221 vols.)

Zeitschrift für die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft und die Kunde des Urchristentums (20 Bände)

Possibly the most important single journal on Biblical studies.

These are not all the books I bid on in CP, but you get an idea. Many of these I bid the highest price possible. Many of these I already own in hardcopy.

Why wait for new books to come out when Logos already has so many waiting to be done? They only need a push.

Thank you for asking.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982780#Comment_982780

Classic commentaries on Colossians

There are always gems in these classic collections, some more than others.

Classic commentaries on Mark

They used to throw in some foreign language commentaries in these bundles. This one has Lagrange, a classic.

Classic commentaries on John

This has works by John Brown, MacLaren, Zahn, and Luecke.

Classic commentaries on Revelation

This has Vaughan, Seiss, Milligan, Desprez, de Wette, and Boussuet.

Classic commentaries on Ecclesiastes

This has Genung, Elliott, Murphy, Durham, Lewis.

Life and Works of George MacDonald

CS Lewis was MacDonald’s biggest fan. Nobody would know about him if it wasn’t for Lewis.

The Speaker’s Commentary 13 vol.

The Biblical Illustrator

I have this in hardback and in another Bible program, but I would buy it again to have it in Logos.

Lenten Sermons

This has James Parker, H P Liddon, Bickersteth, Sadler, and who else?

Posthumous works of Thomas Chalmers

The Logos blurb sold me on this. See?

Classic Studies on Old Testament Theology

This has Schultz, Davidson, Hengstengberg (4 vo), Brown, Kurtz, Lindsay.

Classic commentaries on Job

This has Genung, McFayden, Bullinger, Davidson, Gibson, Umbreit, and Peake.

Classic commentaries on Jonah

The Life of our Lord upon the Earth

Samuel Andrews highest praise by Spurgeon, or was it someone else?

The Works of Richard Chenevix Trench

This has his works on the parables, the miracles, Proverbs, sermons, Sermon on the Mount, etc.

Select Life and Works of Matthew Henry

This has sermons and other Bible works.

B F Westcott on Christianity

Biblical Studies on B F Westcott

Kendrick’s Translation of the Vulgate with Commentary 6 vol

Classic commentaries on Isaiah

This has Driver’s classic work on Isaiah 53, plus Whitehouse, Kelly, Smith, Henderson, Durham.

The Catholic Encyclopedia

I wrote Verbum about this. This should be a part of their basic package. I’ll take a set too.

Classic commentaries on Proverbs

This has Parker and a commentary by Ibn Ezra.

Classic commentaries on Hebrews

This has Tholuck, Dickson, Steward, Lindsay, Nairne, Reuss, and Kurtz.

Classic commentaries on Psalms

This has Bush, Barnes, Kelly, Davison, Kimhi

Classic commentaries on Luke

Select Works of Joseph A. Seiss

Collected Sermons of BF Westcott

Classic commentaries and studies on Johannine Literature

This has Nicoll, Ramsay, Dennett, and Gloag.

Plain Sermons

Sermons by Newman, Pusey, Keble

Classic commentaries on Matthew

This has Dickson, McNeile, Zahn, Heinrici, Slater, McGarvey, and de Valdes.

The Collected Works of John Nelson Darby

JJ van Oosterzee Theological Studies Collection

Classic commentaries on Jeremiah

This has works by Henderson, Meyer, and Parker.

Classic commentaries on Acts

This has works by Baumgarten, Zeller, Owen, Parker, Thomas, Rendall, Sadler, Jones, Cook, Arnot, and others.

Sutcliffe’s Commentary on the Old and New Testament

W.O.E. Oesterley Studies on Judaism and the Old Testament (17 vols.)

This has his commentaries on Psalms, Proverbs, and Apocrypha and other important works

Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies

He does an excellent job on synonyms. Much needed.

The Works of Rudolf Stier (12 vols.)

Classic Commentaries and Studies on the General and Pastoral Epistles (16 vols.)

This includes works by Gload, Sumner, Hillard, Kelly, and Strachan.

Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis

This has works by Delitzsch, Bush, Jacobus, Simon, Preston, and others.

Select Works of James Durham (4 vols.)

This has his classic on Job.

Classic Commentaries and Studies on Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy Upgrade (14 vols.)

This has Seiss, Kennedy, Kelly, Saxe, Simon, Genung, Gibson, and Betterridge

Untersuchung über den Hebräerbrief (2 Bände)

This is by Wieseler.

Isaak August Dorner Collection (12 vols.)

Patrologia Syriaca (vols. 1–2) and Orientalis (vols. 1–14, 16)

I have enough work that I want to do to last me three lifetimes. I don’t know where I will end up, so I think big.

The Anglican Pulpit Library (6 vols.)

Trapp's Commentary (5 vols.)

The Expositor’s Dictionary of Texts (2 vols.)

Bampton Lecture Series, 1780–1920 (127 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Edinburgh (19 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Glasgow (17 vols.)

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at Aberdeen (13 vols.)

James Macknight’s Commentary on the Apostolic Epistles (6 vols.)

Patrologiae Cursus Completus, Series Graeca, Part 1 (vols. 1–18)

Peake’s Commentary on the Bible

Select Gifford Lectures Delivered at St. Andrews (15 vols.)

Charles Augustus Briggs Collection (15 vols.)

One of the editors of BDB. This bundle has a number of important works.

Encyclopaedia Biblica (4 vols.)

I still see this referred to a lot, and my copy is buried in a room where my wife has piled a lot of her stuff, and I would have to climb over a lot of things to get to it, so I don’t.

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graeca (167 vols.)

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Latina (221 vols.)

Zeitschrift für die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft und die Kunde des Urchristentums (20 Bände)

Possibly the most important single journal on Biblical studies.

These are not all the books I bid on in CP, but you get an idea. Many of these I bid the highest price possible. Many of these I already own in hardcopy.

Why wait for new books to come out when Logos already has so many waiting to be done? They only need a push.

Thank you for asking.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982787#Comment_982787

One??? I've sent dozens of emails to suugest@logos.com with books that I wanted to see.

But see, that is my point. You don't need 100 hundred people excited about a different book each, you need to get 100 people excited about one single book. Otherwise Community Pricing doesn't work.

We have seen CP pricing work for many titles, and there have been many who have tried to push this title or that. Some have been more successful than others. What doesn't work: A thread saying "bid on this." What works better: A thread saying "bid on this because it is an important work in the study of [blank]." What works best? A thread stating: "bid on this because it is an important work in the study of [blank]. This price is a steal because [fill in the blank] and it will be useful to have in your library because [fill in the blank]."

When people believe they can get in on a "steal of a deal" for something that will benefit them, they jump on it.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982805#Comment_982805

I start a thread and three people read it. And that's supposed to get a book to be published?

Like I said to someone, I spent my whole life in business. I want to see Logos do a better job at theirs. I often talk about the sample pages they put with books they offer, sample pages that show nothing about what makes this book what it is. A commentary needs to have sample of actual commentary pages, not introduction pages.

But I digress.

I have way too many books I am interested in, and I don't have enough time in the day to do everything I am working on now. Logos sells books for a living. I am and have suggested ways they can do a better job of it. If they aren't excited about trying to sell books, I don't think my little threads is going to make any difference.

Logos has given up on older books, and I think they are making a huge mistake. Look at all the books they already have in their possessions, books that they could easily push but they don't.

I don't want to play the sympathy card here, but chemo is taking a lot of energy out of me. A lot of things I just can't get myself to do.

But I still say this is Logos' job, and they are letting a gold mine pass them by.

Bernhard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982806#Comment_982806

For those Public Domain books that only very few people are interested in and/or that never make it through CP, don't forget about the possiblity to import them as personal books (sadly for Desktop only), at least until official versions are available. For example, there are a lot of public domain works available for e-Sword on www.biblesupport.com. I had previously posted a macro to help converting those modules and to add Logos milestones where possible: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/130215.aspx

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982822#Comment_982822

For those Public Domain books that only very few people are interested in and/or that never make it through CP, don't forget about the possiblity to import them as personal books (sadly for Desktop only), at least until official versions are available

I would agree with this. It is the way forward for now.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982806#Comment_982806

I have way too many books I am interested in, and I don't have enough time in the day to do everything I am working on now. Logos sells books for a living. I am and have suggested ways they can do a better job of it. If they aren't excited about trying to sell books, I don't think my little threads is going to make any difference.

CP titles aren't likely to be "money makers" for FL. The stated principle: FL finds a title and determines the cost to produce the resource (not to turn a profit!). They then list the title and let users "bid" on its value to them... again, not to make a profit. Only after the item has shipped and has left CP can they begin to make money.

But I still say this is Logos' job, and they are letting a gold mine pass them by.

Like it or not, but older titles rarely sell well. I agree that there are many old titles worth having! However, there are many obstacles to gathering up interest... not the least of which is the time/language barrier. Many of the older titles worth having are academic in nature... and academic resources have a limited market to begin with. In most cases old books just don't sell.

Consider this: For FL to really market one of these resources, they are going to have to have an employee dig into it. How much should FL invest in a title headed to CP (again, not to make a profit)? Especially with the high wage rates in WA, health insurance, etc. it is easy to imagine a very basic job of researching and promoting a title costing FL $1000. For 100 titles (a drop of a drop in the bucket) that would equate to $100k... to not make a profit!

True story: My college roommate had 12 brothers and sisters. For a couple years of his life, his family lived in a one room shack with no running water. Over the summer heading into our junior year his mother inherited over a million dollars. His father, being so wise, invested in the land rights to an abandoned gold mine. By our senior year, no gold of appreciable value was excavated from the mine and the million was gone. My friend had gone from rags to riches to rags in a single year. (He is doing very well for himself now). The point? Sometimes gold mines aren't gold mines! [:P]

I don't want to play the sympathy card here, but chemo is taking a lot of energy out of me.

Larry - Know that I am praying for you. I am sure that many others who read this thread will be praying for you as well. Feel free to keep us updated in your journey.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982832#Comment_982832

don't forget about the possiblity to import them as personal books (sadly for Desktop only)

It is the way forward for now

Another potential option would be for these resources to be simply converted as type:eBook... but expectations of quality and maintenance would need to be severely tempered. Unfortunately the hassle of user complaints would make this option unlikely.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982822#Comment_982822

Thank you. I will look into this, though I don't usually have much success with computer things that require more than a few steps.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982834#Comment_982834

I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP. Yes, users bid on the books, but FL knows how much money they need for production. If they are not making enough money, then they are underestimating their costs or just making a poor (?) business decision.

You say older titles don't sell well. When I started with Logos, CP was doing very well. Book were constantly coming out and being published. But then they stopped pushing them. I am on Logos everyday all day and I haven't heard a word about CP in a very long time.

You sound like they would need to hire a fulltime person. Hardly. Just talk about it. Introduce a new bundle everyday. Many of them already have excellent write-ups, but there isn't any exposure anymore.

As for the gold mine, these are proven works. Somehow 'pubic domain' sounds like its cheapening the value of the books, like dime novels.

Thank you for the prayers, but I would much prefer we focus on getting these books published.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982839#Comment_982839

I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP.

That is their stated position... I am sure some make some money and some may lose money. If the estimated cost of production is $100, then they need 100 bidders at $1 or 1 bidder at $100. Either way, at the end of it the goal is to give people a good value of a resource. Of course, once the resource is "published" into Logos, anyone who purchases it later (not at CP prices) will end up making money for FL.

As for the gold mine, these are proven works. Somehow 'pubic domain' sounds like its cheapening the value of the books, like dime novels.

I agree that "public domain" does make the resources sound like valueless resources, which they are not... but that is simply the terminology for resources for which no copyright is still held. I do disagree on one point: The resources were (past tense) "proven" works. They are no longer so. That doesn't mean that they no longer have value, it just means that people (in numbers) no longer value them. Oftentimes they simply need to be "rediscovered." That is why each book needs a champion... and why I asked you to pick ONE book to do so! Seldom is anyone able to start a movement focused on the big picture... rather, the movement begins by one person championing one small part.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you that we (communally) have a prejudice towards old things (including books). We think we are so smart because we live today... but it isnt so!

I will look into this, though I don't usually have much success with computer things that require more than a few steps.

Creating basic personal books is really quite easy... as long as you have (or can easily create) a Microsoft Word (.docx) file. If you have any questions, just ask.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982904#Comment_982904

Here is a post by a FL employee (today!). Although it doesn't directly relate to CP, it does provide insight.

Hi all,

We have this book on our list of books to license. Once we have a license, it will go up on our pre-order program and go into production right away.

A few notes on our licensing and production process/policy:

1. In an ideal world, we'd have every book live and available for sale the day the publisher releases it. It would be the best for our customers and the best for us.

2. We've tried to address this issue to some extent with our pre-order program. We are continuing to ramp that up as we feel more confident in our ability to choose resources we believe will be successful.

3. Because there is extra work that must be done to create a Logos edition, we often cannot put a live product up on our site the same day the publisher does. We try when we can, but it depends on getting materials early enough to get the work done. Sometimes, this just isn't possible.

4. There are certain situations where we just can't get a book. Sometimes there are good reasons for it, sometimes not. In most of these cases, we are not free to share the details of the negotiations.

Having said all of that, I feel your pain--really. I love books. I have a massive print-book library at home. There are a many of these print books I'd love to see in Logos (e.g. books like Barth's Romans volume). It's painful not to have them available.

I'm grateful for your love of books and enthusiasm to have them all in Logos. We will continue to improve our ability to have more books available as quickly as possible.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982839#Comment_982839

I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP. Yes, users bid on the books, but FL knows how much money they need for production. If they are not making enough money, then they are underestimating their costs or just making a poor (?) business decision.

Profit = Revenue - Expenses so concur Faithlife (FL) should be Profitable on Community Pricing (CP) resources. Caveat since humanly not know if CP Profit would buy a lunch. Thankful FL is profitable enough for 300 employees (and their families). Unfortunately when realized revenue is substantially lower than projected, FL has monetary incentive to lay off employees for expense reduction. Thankful for FL portfolio profitably changing: e.g. FL TV, Mobile Ed, Proclaim, ...

When I started with Logos, CP was doing very well. Book were constantly coming out and being published.

Noticed CP bidding by community has slowed down over several years, which may correlate with drop in M.Div degree pursuit (noted by BibleWorks sales decrease as demand for original language learning/mastery has dropped). Thankful for many friendly forum discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn (along with remembering many who have not posted/replied over many months, which may be another CP correlation).

I am on Logos everyday all day and I haven't heard a word about CP in a very long time.

On 6-6-18, FL sent "Logos Pre-Pub and Community Pricing" email about Appian's Roman History (8 vols.)

Keep Smiling [:)]

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982907#Comment_982907

On 6-6-18, FL sent "Logos Pre-Pub and Community Pricing" email about Appian's Roman History (8 vols.)

Placed a bid!

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982904#Comment_982904

If FL is not making money on CP, that is their choice. They decide how much money they will make on each bundle. IF it was my company, I would push CP just as I do everything else. Everyday I would feature a new bundle on the home page with a good blurb on it. Many of them already have such a blurb. Negligible cost to FL. I was a manager for much of my previous life. I was very good at making money for my company. One thing I focused on was variety, having the most choices available for my customers. And for a customer base as FL has, they can easily clean out the CP file with a little effort.

People in numbers don't value the older books, because they have been taught not to or just not exposed to them. Yet pastors are urged to buy Spurgeon. We have to teach every generation.

You want me to pick ONE book and champion it. Who is going to read what I say about that one book? Three people? If FL can just see the potential here, they can make a lot of money with very little effort. Like I said, I also offered three suggestions in addition to this one on how to clean out CP. Nobody's buying them.

Personal books I have done. We'll see what I can do here.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982907#Comment_982907

FL decides how much money they want to make on CP. If it won't buy a lunch, that is their choice. But I don't see why that is necessary.

It would take minimal effort to highlight one resource on the home page. Many of the resources already have excellent blurbs that can sell them.

CP is a good product. They can make a lot of money if they choose to do so.. And they can with very little effort. They already did the hard part.

Thank you

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982906#Comment_982906

To Ben

"We will continue to improve our ability to have more books available as quickly as possible."

Thank you

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982907#Comment_982907

That's one, and I missed it. Sorry.

There are 26 pages of CP. Do one a day. No extra expenses. Most already have good descriptions.

Thank you

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982822#Comment_982822

I installed eSword, but I didn't find a whole lot of public domain books, particularly ones I don't already have.

But thank you

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982822#Comment_982822

I looked at all the work you did, and I am impressed. Thank you.

Having said that, I read the sheet, downloaded TheWord. I did eSword earlier. TheWord certainly has a lot of Bibles available. I saw two I might be interested in JFB Commentary, but that appears in an abridged version and the complete. I have the abridged and the complete is sitting in CP. So I didn't download anything.

I am angry and disappointed in FL. This CP program has such great potential and they gave up on it. They are a ministry and a business. They need to stay in business to have a ministry. The business part is to sell books and software. And they gave up on this.

All they need to do is to feature one resource in CP on the Home Page everyday. Maybe have a blog feature one too (different audience). The blurbs are already in place. No added costs. When they talked about CP more, they got a better response. Ignore it, and it will be ignored.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/982955#Comment_982955

Since we're on the topic of older books, I wanted to bring up this set https://www.logos.com/product/29735/recensio-synoptica-annotationis-sacrae

It's been up on community pricing for a while. I'm afraid that the title has been confusing and/or intimidating to many people. Other resources like it have done well. It's probably worth another look.

From the overview:

"The nine-volume set contains annotations from classical and rabbinical authors, the Church Fathers, and contemporary English and Continental biblical scholars. In addition, Rev. Bloomfield has incorporated notes from his 18 years of classical, biblical, and literary study of the Greek language."

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983002#Comment_983002

I bid $85 on that, the max.

I am disappointed and angry that FL gave up on CP. All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

I am amazed at what a lot of these older books have done, the kind of hard work in compiling and comparing information, their use of older, classical, and foreign resources, their insights, and their deep spirituality.

Thank you

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983003#Comment_983003

I am disappointed and angry that FL gave up on CP. All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

While humanly not like, prefer to Pray with Thanksgiving (rather than be angry, which gives place for adversarial attack).

Observation: both home page updates and blog posts incur expense for Faithlife (using valuable employee time).

Thankful for https://books.logos.com having 8,000+ classics that can be downloaded to your Logos installation for reading.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983002#Comment_983002

I'm afraid that the title has been confusing and/or intimidating to many people. Other resources like it have done well. It's probably worth another look.

I agree and I agree

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983003#Comment_983003

All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

I would agree that if there was an algorism written to automatically or randomly put on on the home page or blog post each day a different cp title, it would greatly help the situation.

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983002#Comment_983002

Since we're on the topic of older books, I wanted to bring up this set https://www.logos.com/product/29735/recensio-synoptica-annotationis-sacrae

Thanks for bringing it up. I used to scour the CP listings periodically to make sure I didn't miss anything. I know I originally had good reasons for ruling this one out, but now you've given me good reasons to bid!

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983037#Comment_983037

algorithm? One reader here asked me for one book on CP to push. In a matter of minutes, I had 5 pages of titles that I wanted to see published. Most of them already had good blurbs written about them. It should take FL maybe 5 minutes a day tops to pick out a resource in CP and post it on the home page. Maybe another 5 minutes to write a note encouraging users to visit CP regularly, and they can reuse this every few weeks.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983010#Comment_983010

I try to avoid anger, but there are a lot of times in the Bible that someone got angry for good reason. FL gave up on a good program. It's hard to see all these good resources out of reach, because somebody decided to pull the plug.

FL is a ministry and a business. If the business doesn't do well, there is no ministry. I've been in business most of my life. It was my duty to make it easier for a customer to buy something. FL can sell a lot of good books if they want to. Yes, it takes a little effort, but most of the work is done. The books are gathered, the blurbs are written.

I went to books.logos site. I downloaded a lot of books, but I still want FL to start pushing CP again. I see a lot of people making excuses for them, but I'm not buying them.

Thank you for writing. As always

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983042#Comment_983042

algorithm?

I thought my spelling was wrong. But apparently there are two ways to spell it. See here

Thaddeus Billman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983010#Comment_983010

Thankful for https://books.logos.com having 8,000+ classics that can be downloaded to your Logos installation for reading.

Keep Smiling

Nice, I was not aware that page existed.

Thaddeus Billman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/983059#Comment_983059

Look what popped up on the Logos blog today: https://blog.logos.com/2018/06/know-believe-baptism/ [:)]

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/984819#Comment_984819

I saw that. And before that there was a blog about how to get the best prices on books,and CP was mentioned.

I am beyond happy. A prayer was answered.