Pleasse ,help me

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Tes | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, May 14 2010 8:39 AM

nehmiah 6: 17 Also in those days many letters went from the nobles of Judah to Tobiah, and Tobiah’s letters came to them. 

New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Ne 6:17). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

I want to know  the phrase '' Also in those days '' to whom it refers ,without consulting a commentary,I would also to know in Logos resources which enables me to identfy such cases (I have the logos platinum ,the Nelson,and Zondeervan 87 vols.)

Blessings in  Christ

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 3157
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 8:48 AM

Tes:
I want to know  the phrase '' Also in those days '' to whom it refers

Sorry, I mean which days? After the completion of building or after?

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 3157
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 8:49 AM

Tes:
Sorry, I mean which days? After the completion of building or after?

After or before?

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 9:15 AM

Tes:

Tes:
Sorry, I mean which days? After the completion of building or after?

After or before?

It doesn't refer to any specific time.  It is a vague statement that doesn't necessarily before or after, but just sometime near what happened previously.  It could be both before AND after. Do a bible search on the phrase, you'll see it is pretty common.

Why don't you want to refer to a commentary?

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Posts 3157
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 9:29 AM

Todd Phillips:
Why don't you want to refer to a commentary?

Thank you Philip, I would like first to see  in a resource ,which tells me as it is without commenting it .If I go to commenteries I may have some ideas in me ,before I try to interpet it.or better study it .If this is before the completion it is meaningful to the context ,but if it is after that ,then I am still woundering,becuase onece his ememies have reaslised ,,it is done by the help of God ,then what does it mean if they continue?

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 9:36 AM

Tes:

Todd Phillips:
Why don't you want to refer to a commentary?

Thank you Philip, I would like first to see  in a resource ,which tells me as it is without commenting it .If I go to commenteries I may have some ideas in me ,before I try to interpet it.or better study it .If this is before the completion it is meaningful to the context ,but if it is after that ,then I am still woundering,becuase onece his ememies have reaslised ,,it is done by the help of God ,then what does it mean if they continue?

I guess I don't see the difference between asking us for direction and consulting a commentary.  A lexicon isn't going to help with phrases and grammar.  Any resource that would help you understand what that phrase means is going to be the matter of someone's opinion as much as a commentary is.  A good commentary will point you to other resources as well.

The best you can do on your own is search for how the phrase is used elsewhere in the Bible.

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 9:44 AM

By the way, I think the letters were sent during the building of the wall, since the author would not have needed to say "in those days" if the letters were sent after it was completed.  It points back to the previous action.  But I don't think you're going to find a technical resource to help you understand that.

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Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 9:52 AM

Todd Phillips:
A good commentary will point you to other resources as well.

Well, my problem here is not with the grammar, but with the sequence of time.

 

Blessings in Chrst

Thank you again Philip

 

Blessings in Christ.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 1:59 PM

Tes:

Todd Phillips:
A good commentary will point you to other resources as well.

 

Well, my problem here is not with the grammar, but with the sequence of time.

 

Blessings in Chrst

Thank you again Philip

 

The topic you wish to explore linguistically is deixis . see http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsDeixis.htm for a series of definitions and examples that can help you sort out the questions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 4:25 PM

Tes, I know you aren't really wanting to know what a commentary says, but as Todd pointed out above "I guess I don't see the difference between asking us for direction and consulting a commentary."

I went to http://www.bestcommentaries.com/category/ezra-nehemiah/ and the top rated commentary on that site for Nehemiah is the Word Biblical Commentary. I notice that you didn't include it in your resources that you listed.

So I have copied just a portion of it for you here:

 

WARNING: WORD BIBLICAL COMMENTARY QUOTE FOLLOWS        

 

 

"17–19 This paragraph is not to be regarded as following the preceding two verses in strict chronological order but rather, as the opening words of v 17 make clear (

גם בימים ההם

"furthermore, throughout that period"), as describing further the kind of intrigues of the period as a whole. It owes its present setting, therefore, to quite other considerations, analyzed in Form above.

The exchanges of letters between Tobiah and the Judean aristocracy were no doubt part of the way in which Nehemiah’s enemies were kept so well informed of developments in Jerusalem. The personal ties referred to add weight to the case argued at 2:10 above that although Tobiah was an official under Sanballat in Samaria, he had at some point been resident in Jerusalem. It was most likely during such a period that he and his son had married into Jewish families (for the family of Arah, cf. Ezra 2:5; for Meshullam, son of Berechiah, cf. Neh 3:4 and 30, where it was suggested that he was an important official. It would appear from chap. 3 that Meshullam was a firm supporter of Nehemiah’s building program. This shows that the situation may not have appeared so straightforward to everyone as it did to Nehemiah. Some may have been happy to see the city repaired without committing themselves in the least to the more separatist policy of which Nehemiah regarded the wall as a major symbol; see Comment on 3:5 for an even more extreme attitude). But Tobiah’s links were much wider than those of marriage. Quite why many should have "sworn allegiance to him" is uncertain, but the fact itself makes clear that there was an influential Tobiad party in Jerusalem with whom Nehemiah must have had difficulty in dealing, even though it rarely surfaces in our texts. Perhaps they wished to continue with an open policy toward Judah’s neighbors in the interests of commerce and trade.

19 For whatever reason, this group tried to encourage a more positive attitude by Nehemiah toward Tobiah (assuming the text here to be sound; cf. above). The riff was damaging to their interests, and so they tried to mediate. Ironically, however, Nehemiah records that the only direct communications he had from Tobiah belied the genuineness of their intentions."

Willamson, H. G. M. Vol. 16, Word Biblical Commentary : Ezra-Nehemiah. Word Biblical Commentary. Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 2002.

 

WARNING: NICOT COMMENTARY QUOTE FOLLOWS   

 

"17–19 We should expect these verses after v. 14. Verses 15–16 should then stand before the beginning of ch. 7. This is the logical sequence. On the other hand there might have been logic in the arrangement as we have it in the MT that escapes us now. It is possible that the events of 6:17–19 took place after the nations experienced the failure of their plans to stop the work on the wall (vv. 15–16). In vv. 17–19 it is no longer a question of stopping the work, but of diplomatic negotiations to reconcile Nehemiah with Tobiah. Some of the important citizens of Jerusalem were against the isolation of Judah, perhaps for commercial reasons. They corresponded with Tobiah, one of Nehemiah’s enemies."

Fensham, F. Charles. The Books of Ezra and Nehemiah. The New International Commentary on the Old Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1982.

Posts 3157
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 14 2010 4:54 PM

Thank you all of you.

Blessings in Christ.

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