Argh! :) Help please

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Posts 39
David | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 15 2010 10:40 AM

Hello all:

 

Is it okay to be genuinely upset with my purchase of Logos 4.0? Would this be considered righteous indignation? :O

 

All kidding aside, if Logos writes me back allowing me to return my software and get my $1k+ back, I will take my money back in a heartbeat.  The system is slow as dirt.  Perhaps I'm just so used to MS Word, MS Excel, etc... When I do a search in Excel, it's quick.  When I ask to highlight, it's immediate.  When I need to place a comment or write a note, it's instantaneous.  Was I just expecting too much to expect the Logos software to be just as quick? Instead, when I go to write a note, the sync arrows are the only movement I see for what seems like minutes.  I search for a verse and it takes forever.  I even try to simply scroll down a page and it is irritatingly slow and moves when it's good and ready and not a moment before.

 

I love Jesus and don't want to seem like I'm ready to lose it, but with my temper in check, I simply can't believe how slow this system really is.  At first, I couldn't wait to show off my software with friends, my pastor, etc... but because of the slowness of the system, I have yet to show anyone.  Without the speed, there is not much to show off.

 

I have a new fast computer with a 3.4Ghz AMD processor (64 bit) with 4GB RAM and a 7200RPM 5 Terabyte HD. Unless someone can recommend an upgrade, I am open to any other suggestions.

 

My question is two-fold:

  1. Is there ANYTHING I can do to speed this puppy up? 
  2. I pray that Logos is working on a fix for the way "Notes" are used in L4.  Is there any fix on the horizon? Notes today are very cumbersome and I have to keep ~30 notes open at all times in order to be able add my notes quickly (perhaps the reason for the slowness ... Hmmmmm).

 

Thank you kindly for any replies.

 

Logos -- Please let me know if I can get a refund.

 

Lord bless,

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

Posts 1202
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 15 2010 10:57 AM

The slowness you describe is surprising, given your specs--I assume you have some kind of discrete graphics also if you've got a 3GHz CPU.  It also sounds like you've been using the program for some time, so I assume you aren't going through an indexing.  If these are valid assumptions, I'd suggest calling their tech support and seeing if something is technically amiss.

Logos does lag at times on my system:

- If I try to pull up the Home Page

- If I use the "Close All" command to close my many tabs/windows across my monitors

- If I change layouts (usually will get a black screen for a while & sometimes there is a lag)

The lags are never more than a minute for me; once I am operating "normally", I only see very slight lag between when I try to highlight and when it appears (perhaps a second or two)

My biggest annoyance is I L4 tends to crash if I attempt to use layouts after installing new resources--unless I "Rebuild Index"...which takes a while since I've got quite a few.  That said, I've learned to live with it & adjust my use of the product accordingly.

Don't cash in yet!

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 15 2010 11:10 AM

Hi David,

I  haven't experience the same frustration that you have stated and I don't know anything about how your computer specs are affecting your application. Maybe someone else on the forum can speak to that.

If you are really sure that you want to return your Logos4 software, I would suggest contacting Customer Service on Monday and talking with someone there, it is possible they may have some solutions to help speed things up, but if not I have read many of Bob Pritchett's posts on the forum and I believe that his policies are always more than reasonable.  I am confident that they will listen and work with you. Bob also says that we are free to contact him too. I don't know of another CEO making themself available as he does.

 

Posts 27602
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 15 2010 12:13 PM

David:
Logos -- Please let me know if I can get a refund.

Yes, the number of notes open will affect the performance. Were you a Logos 3 user? If so, remember that the software is free - it's the resources that you pay for.  Also look at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly to see if any of those suggestions help your performance.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8113
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 15 2010 12:27 PM

David:

All kidding aside, if Logos writes me back allowing me to return my software and get my $1k+ back, I will take my money back in a heartbeat.

I hope you will give CS or another forum user the opportunity to figure out what's causing the performance problems on your system first (I have a 5-year-old 3.4GHz Pentium 4 system and it's nowhere as slow as you describe), but if all else fails, Logos does offer a 30-day unconditional money-back guarantee ("No Risk. 30-day money back guarantee, no questions asked." -- http://www.logos.com/gold). 

We want all our customers to be thrilled with the product; if CS can't help you get it up and running, they will be able to help you if you decide to return it. 

A quick diagnostic step I would suggest trying is opening Resource Monitor (on Windows 7), Reliability & Performance Monitor (on Windows Vista), or Task Manager (on Windows XP) and checking the CPU usage of the currently-running processes. When Logos is performing slowly, is it using 100% CPU during that time? If not, is there another process that's using the CPU, or is the CPU otherwise idle? What brand of anti-virus/anti-spyware (or realtime protection of any sort) do you have installed and running, and is there any difference if you temporarily disable that? Do you have any desktop search/realtime backup programs installed that might be trying to scan the files Logos 4 is using as it's running?

Posts 39
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 16 2010 5:12 PM

Thank you all!!  This forum has always been a HUGE help.  I appreciate everyone's time (as always) and will contact Customer Service / Technical Support before doing anything rash :).

 

I do enjoy the capabilities of the program ... if I can just figure out the speed problem.

 

Kind regards,

 

David

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 16 2010 5:49 PM

David, 

I have L4 on a HP pavilion laptop, AMD X 2 X 32        2.2 GHz with 2GB memory, and it is not bad.

Just to do a little trouble shooting with you, although I am not an expert, there are some much more proficient geeks in here to help you with this, hopefully they will help soon.

It helps to list as much info as possible - are you running windows 7 home premium 64 bit?  Is this a desktop or laptop (might help to know the video card set up).

My first question is has finished indexing the first time?  If it has not, don't bother doing anything until it does, and it just takes a long time to do that first time - and it hogs the whole computer until it does.

If that is done, then there are some things on the wiki that talk about speed, maybe go through those http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly

Those are my suggestions to get started.  Good luck.

 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 16 2010 5:54 PM

Ward Walker:

- If I try to pull up the Home Page

- If I use the "Close All" command to close my many tabs/windows across my monitors

- If I change layouts (usually will get a black screen for a while & sometimes there is a lag)

I would add to this list the information window and things like Power lookup. I've noticed them bogging me down from time to time.

Posts 18818
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 16 2010 6:18 PM

Ward Walker:

Logos does lag at times on my system:

- If I use the "Close All" command to close my many tabs/windows across my monitors

I have found that a much faster way to close all the many tabs/windows is to close each tile independently instead of using Close All. I don't know why this should be the case, but if I right click on any one of the tabs in the lefthand tile and select "Close all tabs" (or "Close other tabs" if I want to keep just that one open), and then do the same in the righthand tile, it's nearly instantaneous. And then do the same if I have either or both of the left tool sidebar and right sidebar open. And those are equally zippy. So why can't "Close All" be so fast?

Posts 8602
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 16 2010 6:40 PM

David:
I have a new fast computer with a 3.4Ghz AMD processor (64 bit) with 4GB RAM and a 7200RPM 5 Terabyte HD. Unless someone can recommend an upgrade, I am open to any other suggestions.

David the one Item you didn't mention is the video card.  Is it an add on card? How much RAM?  What GPU? 

WPF which is the foundation L4 is built on, demands a bit more in the graphics department than might be expected - given that it's more business app than video game. 

Finally as others have confirmed, I believe having 30 note documents open will vastly slow down your system.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 39
David | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 17 2010 5:26 PM

Hi everyone.  You folks are the greatest!!

 

I hope the information below is more helpful to you than it is to me.  I guess I’m not as geek-ish as I once thought J. 

 

Okay … to answer your questions.  I am running with the following:

 

  • Windows 7 Premium
  • Desktop computer
  • Processor:  AMD Phenom II x 4 965 Processor 3.4Ghz
  • 4GB Memory (RAM)
  • 64 bit operating system
  • It has indexed fully and been through a few indexing upgrades since then
  • Video card information listed below

 

Video Card:

VisionTek 784090025487 Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card.  GPU:  Radeon HD 4890

 

Model

Brand  VisionTek

Model 784090025487

Interface

Interface          PCI Express 2.0 x16

Chipset

Chipset Manufacturer ATI

GPU    Radeon HD 4890

Core Clock      850MHz

Stream Processors      800 Stream Processing Units

Memory

Memory Size  1GB

Memory Interface       256-bit

Memory Type GDDR5

3D API

DirectX           DirectX 10.1

OpenGL          OpenGL 3.0

Ports

HDMI  1 x HDMI (via Adapter)

D-SUB            1 (via Adapter)

DVI     2 x DVI

TV-Out           HDTV / S-Video / Composite Out

General

Max Resolution          2560 x 1600

CrossFireX Support    Yes

Cooler With Fan

Power Connector        2 x 6 Pin

Dual-Link DVI Supported      Yes

HDCP Ready  Yes

Thank you again for all your help.  Frankly, I will be pleased if it only requires a few hundred dollar upgrade in a better video card, more RAM, etc…  I would rather do this than seek to return L4.

 

David

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 17 2010 7:46 PM

David,

I'm sorry your Logos4 experence has not been eveything you have hoped and wanted. Everything I have read suggests that Logos will refund or otherwise sort you out if that is what you want. However, it also seems they really would rather fix whatever is wrong and have you as a happy customer.

Anyway, last night I wanted to explore how long my laptop battery would run, so i created a new "profile" and set it to 5%CPU and about 90% screen-brightness, based on many of the other settings from the "Max Battery Life" profile in Vista32.

Using the Intel CPU ID utility, from Intel web site, it reported my dual-core 2.53 GHz with 1066 MHz System Bus was running at CPU=0.79 GHz and Bus=490 MHz. So set to 5% my CPU actually only slows down to 31% and the bus speed just under half.

I used Logos4 for a while to read a few things and also read some of the forum posts here. It really was slower, but still seemed acceptable in general. A cached search for "the" in my whole library was about 45 seconds rather than a normal 15 seconds, so a good match for running at 31%.

I'm not sure if my video card runs slower when on batteries. I did not check those settings.

My setup (on mains - 100% cpu etc) gives a "Not Responding" message from time to time, but I'm becomming to think its a Windows / WPF thing rather than Logos4 as such. I have had "Not Responding" in a different WPF application too (Microsoft Visual Studio), so I think its the OS plumbing and libraries rather than Logos4 as such.

I'm hoping when we see Logos4 on Microsoft .NET 4 in due course, Microsoft might have made .NET 4 faster and better in important ways, and Logos4 will gain from that.

My comments above are offered in good faith in the hope its somehow useful to yourself, or at least to Logos as I too hope we can get higher performance from the application in due course.

Regards, Jim.

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 18 2010 5:12 AM

It seems to me that with your set up, L4 should run pretty fast.   There are a couple of things that I do, especially on my slower computers, but even on my brand new  intel i5 2.79GHz quad core that help make L4 faster.  This is not scientific, just my observations.

1. Close the information tab if it is open.  This thing is the biggest drag on speed that L4 has (my opinion), it's "cute" but not that helpful most of the time.  

2. Close the text comparison tab when not using it.  This is useful, but does not need to stay open.

3. Watch your links -  if everything is set up to link set A, then every time you do anything, the whole program has to adjust.  If you have a bible open, have 2 open, and one of them have to no link set, but have links sent there.  then when you are studying, and you click on a reference, it send ONLY that bible to that passage.

4. I think you have way to many notes open, and I think that is your number 1 speed problem.  I usually have 3, a personal bible study note, a questions notes (for things I want to study later, this is not the time), and the study I am doing now (Nehemiah sermon series is the present one).  I know you use notes differently, but I really think 30 open is going to zap the speed of the program.  Maybe have 4 open and test it, just to see if that is the biggest bottleneck

Hope this helps in some way.

 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 18 2010 5:36 AM

Michael Birney:
Close the information tab if it is open.  This thing is the biggest drag on speed that L4 has (my opinion), it's "cute" but not that helpful most of the time.

Michael,

I really love the Information window. I tend to always have it open, and if nothing else, its useful to make my main reading window not so wide. I find it more tiring on my eyes to read a single resource full-width.

As for the performance impact of the Information, I have mine set to CLICK rather than HOVER. So I click over a word or whatever, and the Info panel updates within 1-2 seconds. There is no performance impact from it if I don't click.

I also sometimes disable portions of the Info window. Sometimes if reading a book, I turn off everything except the footnotes. Then I click just ahead of the footnote number if I wish to read it, or do nothing if I don't care to see.

(I'm only saying as, at first, I did not know I could turn it to click mode. So many settings to learn ... Smile )

Posts 13379
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 18 2010 6:18 AM

David,

If you want specific help, could you post:

  • A screenshot of your layout - or, even better, a video of you using Logos. You could use www.jing.com for free.
  • Logs (see 'How to ask for help', below)

As a stab in the dark for now, I wonder whether the notes are causing the problem. If you have lots of notes files, and they're all visible in all resources, that can really slow Logos 4 down. Can I suggest:

  1. Click on visual filters (small coloured icon that looks like a Venn diagram) in one of your resources that has notes.
  2. Right-click on your notes and select "Do not show in any resources".
  3. Repeat step 2 for all your notes.
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