Logos Staff: A Story to Give you something to think about

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Posts 24955
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 9:26 PM

PetahChristian:

Thanks for the info.

I'll need to read up on the differences, since I don't know why INTERSECTS would be safer, most times.

See https://wiki.logos.com/Search_HELP#Proximity

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 45
Darrell Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 10:17 PM

I just opened this thread and am amazed by the discussion generated.

I've been happy with Android Logos: it starts up quick enough, allows me to download just the resources I want, even to report typos. It's become the main way I use Logos.

Windows desktop Logos, however, is different: it takes long to start up, wants to download like 500MB (or more) all the time, even if I just need to read up something briefly. I avoid using it...

Looking for new resources on Logos, however, is best done via the website, on desktop. You win some...

(With this mixed usability, I'm not convinced I should pay a premium to have whatever extra indexing functionality Logos editions are supposed to have, over other platforms or ebooks.)

Jonathan Ray:
1) LOGOS is slow. The indexing process makes my laptop's fans spin so hard I almost worry the machine might short circuit. It's borderline unusable for a slower machine....

Posts 8952
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 4:28 AM

Darrell Tan:
Windows desktop Logos, however, is different: it takes long to start up, wants to download like 500MB (or more) all the time, even if I just need to read up something briefly. I avoid using it...

Darrell, did you know that under "settings" you can control when you would like this to be done so that you can update when it is convenient for you?

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 5:34 AM

Lee:

Hello Cynthia 

In the end I think that any software system is only as good as the programers making it, but also it is the duty of the user to study the program they want to use.

doc:

Lee:
In the end I think that any software system is only as good as the programers making it, but also it is the duty of the user to study the program they want to use.

Agree on both points Lee. It's a two way street.

Hello Lee and doc:  I just want to make sure you read on this thread where I, as well as several others, shared the amount of time spent trying to use the program.  For most of us, we HAVE invested much time and money on seeking to understand how to perform several functions in the program, and many on here talked about how they have just given up trying after countless hours of trying to make it work.  Nevertheless, it is ultimately the job of the programmers to decide if that’s how they want their program to be known.  However, (and this comes back to my original post), Logos’ motto is “Bible study has never been easier.”  REALLY?

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 5:43 AM

DAL:

Cynthia in Florida:

DAL:

I’m all for a “Smooth operator 🎶 Smoooooth operator  🎼  instead of a complicated one.  Man I love that song and her voice. What a classic by Sade 👍😁👌 Bring the Smooth Operator to Logos, hey, I’ll even take the Smooth Criminal if I have to 😜

DAL

I just have to say...this is REALLY funny. :)

Believe it or not I’m a changed man Cynthia! Having you say that is just an incentive for me. Hey, I even made Rosie smile the other day too.  I’m still a straight forward, tell it like it is kind of guy, but I’m just a bit more tacful now 👍😁👌 Overall I’m a happy man! God is good 🙂 

DAL

Hello DAL:  That’s wonderful...and I do believe you! :)

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 7:42 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

 However, (and this comes back to my original post), Logos’ motto is “Bible study has never been easier.”  REALLY?

Well, if you put your Logos computer in your lap, then put your Bible on top, it's great in class. Just open your Bible! It's so easy. Not being sarcastic, but one big reason I still use Laridian with a $30k Logos, is it's quick, and no muss, no fuss.

But I do now use Libby (of course), Logos, Bibleworks, Accordance, Laridian, Olivetree, and my own Bible software. My observation is each seems to assume a different customer. OT and Laridian (PC version) are militantly easy to use. I really can't imagine why 95% of Christians wouldn't select one of these two or even Gateway. These days, they have pretty broad libraries.

After that, the going gets rough. There's a time investment, whichever. My impression, 'time' is the main issue.

But why Logos doesn't GUI it's search, provide a free manual (to encourage), and 'com-mun-i-cate' is beyond me. They're smart, so I assume they want a specific customer ... like the comedy where the western town put a tollgate in the desert charging 10 cents. Worked!


Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 8:06 AM

Denise:

Cynthia in Florida:

 However, (and this comes back to my original post), Logos’ motto is “Bible study has never been easier.”  REALLY?

But why Logos doesn't GUI it's search, provide a free manual (to encourage), and 'com-mun-i-cate' is beyond me. They're smart, so I assume they want a specific customer ... like the comedy where the western town put a tollgate in the desert charging 10 cents. Worked!

You know Denise:  You have given me something to really think about here (You often do). :)

Never ever have I  once ever thought about this...that they want a specific customer.  In my mind, I was assuming (maybe that was my naïveté) that FL wanted to reach everyone with their software.  Perhaps that’s not the case.  Hmmmm....

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 9:13 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

Never ever have I  once ever thought about this...that they want a specific customer.  In my mind, I was assuming (maybe that was my naïveté) that FL wanted to reach everyone with their software.  Perhaps that’s not the case.  Hmmmm....

Bob has indeed noted most customers are a drag on costs ... they buy limited, and run up support demands. Ergo, the forum. And the corporate strategy is a limiting one ... pricey books, Cadallac of software, and its customers happily stating ... "want cheap, go somewhere else".  JoshRI didn't get far.

The dissonance is in the marketing. As you noted, "easy to use!". Oh, sure. Even the new mobile was carefully geek-crafted! 

But, I should be so hypocritical. 3,100 carefully selected books, the cost of a new Honda car, and no regrets. Thankful to Bob.


Posts 1497
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 9:49 AM

Michael Childs:

Josh:

Make this resource free:

Camp Logos 1 and 2 (Logos 7)

No, that is not the answer.  Beginners should be able to intuitively do basic things without taking a class, or the software has a design failure.  The problem is not the customers.

Perhaps it might be best to define the primary purpose of Logos Bible Software. I personally don't use Logos to do "basic things". I use it to do advanced things. It seems to me that if someone is looking for a "basic things" experience they can buy an ordinary study Bible. 

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 10:09 AM

Josh:

Michael Childs:

Josh:

Make this resource free:

Camp Logos 1 and 2 (Logos 7)

No, that is not the answer.  Beginners should be able to intuitively do basic things without taking a class, or the software has a design failure.  The problem is not the customers.

Perhaps it might be best to define the primary purpose of Logos Bible Software. I personally don't use Logos to do "basic things". I use it to do advanced things. It seems to me that if someone is looking for a "basic things" experience they can buy an ordinary study Bible. 

I think this comes back to what I've been saying.  Logos' own mantra is "Bible study has never been easier."  Also, I am thinking that most people don't come on and expect to jump into the program and use it for advanced things right away.  I think they expect, like me, to start off learning how to do "basic things" with the program and as they put in some effort,  continue to grow with the program.  The point I believe many people have voiced on here is that they HAVE put in some effort (for some of us, more than others), and unless you know computer jargon or are gifted in that area, you hit a brick wall. Hence...the frustration!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 1497
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 10:10 AM

Denise:

Cynthia in Florida:

Never ever have I  once ever thought about this...that they want a specific customer.  In my mind, I was assuming (maybe that was my naïveté) that FL wanted to reach everyone with their software.  Perhaps that’s not the case.  Hmmmm....

Bob has indeed noted most customers are a drag on costs ... they buy limited, and run up support demands. Ergo, the forum. And the corporate strategy is a limiting one ... pricey books, Cadallac of software, and its customers happily stating ... "want cheap, go somewhere else".  JoshRI didn't get far.

The dissonance is in the marketing. As you noted, "easy to use!". Oh, sure. Even the new mobile was carefully geek-crafted! 

But, I should be so hypocritical. 3,100 carefully selected books, the cost of a new Honda car, and no regrets. Thankful to Bob.

I agree. FL should not be marketing Logos as a simple to use tool as if it is a hammer. It is a multifaceted and dynamic tool that takes time to learn and master. If you only want to bang nails, buy a hammer. But if you want to build a space station, you'll have to go to school and buy specialized tools.

Posts 18
Perk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 3:47 PM

Learning Logos is hard. Learning to study the Bible is harder.

What is the goal for the proverbial  "person in the pew"? Learn a software program or learn how to study the Bible.

In my opinion, Logos doesn't teach you how to study the Bible. Yes it quickly provides a lot of facts and interpretations. Often contradictory. How do you sort that out?. The software won't help. Many posts in this thread have dealt with "how to search". To me the bigger question is what and why  perform a specific search. What questions lead you to do a search. 

To be fair. FL has produced LT271 Study the Bible with Logos: Jonah 1 and a few other "How to" resources in the Fundamentals package. It includes tips on using the software and approaches to Bible study. Doing all of the suggested activities will lead to a greater appreciation on Bible study, but I don't think it goes far enough. Personally I prefer books over videos for this because they can go deeper and easier to reference. There are many  available resources on "How to Study the Bible".

By example. I'd like to see an  "XXX Study Guide using Logos". I will use Howard Hendricks "Living by the Book" as an example. Primarily because 1) It is in Logos, 2) it is aimed at the "person in the pew" and 3) It was profitable to me many years ago. 

The book includes activities at the end of each chapter. So a "Living By the Book Study Guide using Logos" would provide Logos solutions to each chapters activities. Substitute your favorite "How to" resource.

Gerald

Posts 8952
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 5:10 PM

Perk:

There are many  available resources on "How to Study the Bible".

By example. I'd like to see an  "XXX Study Guide using Logos". I will use Howard Hendricks "Living by the Book" as an example. Primarily because 1) It is in Logos, 2) it is aimed at the "person in the pew" and 3) It was profitable to me many years ago. 

The book includes activities at the end of each chapter. So a "Living By the Book Study Guide using Logos" would provide Logos solutions to each chapters activities. Substitute your favorite "How to" resource.

You make a good suggestion Gerald. I also agree with your assessment of Hendrick's "Living by the Book". It is an excellent introduction Bible study tool.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 26543
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 6:01 PM

Perk:
In my opinion, Logos doesn't teach you how to study the Bible.

Yes

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 7:02 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Perk:

There are many  available resources on "How to Study the Bible".

By example. I'd like to see an  "XXX Study Guide using Logos". I will use Howard Hendricks "Living by the Book" as an example. Primarily because 1) It is in Logos, 2) it is aimed at the "person in the pew" and 3) It was profitable to me many years ago. 

The book includes activities at the end of each chapter. So a "Living By the Book Study Guide using Logos" would provide Logos solutions to each chapters activities. Substitute your favorite "How to" resource.

You make a good suggestion Gerald. I also agree with your assessment of Hendrick's "Living by the Book". It is an excellent introduction Bible study tool.

I agree, great suggestion, and like you, I love Living by the Book.  I keep that in print.  It’s a great resource!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 6417
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 7:30 PM

Accordance makes videos on how to study with their software.  Learn Logos has videos that show you how to study topics or prepare sermons with Logos.  

At one point, the webinars Logos streamed were helpful, but for some reason they stopped doing those.  Maybe going back to doing those and archive them and have a section on the webpage for those would help.

DAL

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 8:44 AM

Luuk Dondorp:

Rick Ausdahl:

.....The fact is I no longer even attempt any but the most basic of searches..... 

.....I too often found that the time I had available for Bible study had gone entirely to Logos study....

....The truth was, I simply didn't have the time to develop that skill...

Exactly !

I guess this is fact for the majority of users, including me.

Ditto.

-Donnie

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 8:47 AM

Michael S.:

Dave Hooton:

{Label Question WHERE Rhetorical ~ false AND Type ~ "Wh-"} 

{Section <PropositionalOutline = Question>}

{Section <SpeechAct = Info: Quest>}

{Section <SpeechAct = Oblig:Direct>}

{Section <Sentence = Interrogative>}

I felt my eyes begin to glaze over when I started reading these strings...  Because I am not a programmer.

Same. And I am a software developer. I'm even willing to put in effort to learn these capabilities. But from my POV, there are no "hooks" in how it works for my brain to hang onto. For anyone who's done Perl programming or complex regular expressions, it's like that. You have to re-learn at the point in time when you need to use the capability. It should not be that way.

-Donnie

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 8:53 AM

Dave Hooton:
This wiki article might be your answer.

That article is at least somewhat deficient right out of the gate. Bullet point #1, "References." For purposes of searching within Logos, what is a "reference?" Is it always a Bible reference (e.g. book, or book+chapter, or book+chapter+verse)? If not, what other types of "references" are there? Or to what kind of resource apart from a Bible or "versified" (there's a word) resource do references and reference searches apply?

A master glossary for all of these kinds of terms would be a huge help (not just for searching, even for the UI elements which have a taxonomy all their own, e.g. "panel menu"). Articles like the one Dave references should link to the applicable terms in such a glossary.

Donnie

Posts 2085
LogosEmployee

Donnie Hale:

A master glossary for all of these kinds of terms would be a huge help (not just for searching, even for the UI elements which have a taxonomy all their own, e.g. "panel menu"). Articles like the one Dave references should link to the applicable terms in such a glossary.

Try checking out the entries for Data Type and Data Type Reference in the Glossary section of the help file. Also useful might be the Milestone entry.

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