Confused about speaker labels in Lamentations

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 6 2018 12:34 PM

From Lam 1:11 to Lam 1:16, there's an unquoted address from <Place Jerusalem> to <Person God>.

(I assume that's normal for it to be tagged, even though the address isn't in quotes.)

Verse 12 appears to have duplicate/misplaced Speaker/Addressee labels:

Lamentations 1:18-22 is, according to speaker labels, an address from Jerusalem to other people, but it misses where Jerusalem's address changes from other people to God in verses 20-22.

The speaker labels in Lam 2:15 appear misplaced. (I have tried reindex LEB and restarting once indexing was done, but it didn't resolve anything. Is there something else I can try?)

There's a quote in Lam 2:18-19 which has no Speaker/Addressee labels, according to the context menu.

Lam 2:20-22 looks similar to the previous addresses from Jerusalem to God, but there are no speaker labels at all (even though "I" is tagged as Jerusalem, and "you" is tagged as God). Is that inconsistent with the previous speaker tagging?

Lam 3:42-3:66 has an unquoted speech between Jerusalem Inhabitants and God. in verse 57, the Inhabitants are quoting God. I assume it's conventional not to tag that quote, even though it's switched to God having said to them, "Do not fear!"

If someone could look into the passages which appear to have missing (or misplaced) tags and speaker labels, it would be appreciated.

For what it's worth, this all started from Lam 3:57 being returned in search results, and me wondering why the quote lacked speaker labels.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 6 2018 4:43 PM

PetahChristian:
The speaker labels in Lam 2:15 appear misplaced. (I have tried reindex LEB and restarting once indexing was done, but it didn't resolve anything. Is there something else I can try?)

No! The tagging is correct, based on the LHB. "Is" is inserted for clarity in most translations (check the Interlinear pane).

Dave
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 6 2018 5:39 PM

Dave Hooton:

PetahChristian:
The speaker labels in Lam 2:15 appear misplaced. (I have tried reindex LEB and restarting once indexing was done, but it didn't resolve anything. Is there something else I can try?)

No! The tagging is correct, based on the LHB. "Is" is inserted for clarity in most translations (check the Interlinear pane).

I see what you're saying, Dave, but I assumed the labels would appear inside the actual speech "A perfection of beauty, a joy for all the earth?" rather than at the beginning of the verse.

I guess one question I have is how the labels are applied differently between direct speech (where the labels appear inside the speech, such as God said, "..."), and this form of indirect/unquoted address, where the labels appear at the start of the verse.

When a verse like Lam 2:15 has travelers indirectly referring to the city, yet also directly speaking about the city, what determines what speech takes precedence (versus what doesn't get tagged)? Why isn't the entirety of 2:15 indirectly tagged (like other parts of the book), instead of just 2:15c?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 6 2018 6:20 PM

PetahChristian:
When a verse like Lam 2:15 has travelers indirectly referring to the city, yet also directly speaking about the city, what determines what speech takes precedence (versus what doesn't get tagged)?

This is at the discretion of Faithlife, because punctuation is an artefact of translation e.g. the LEB has quotes where the traveller is repeating a "saying", but ESV doesn't bother, and neither does Faithlife. But it is more important in direct speech e.g. Lord and Moses/Aaron Ex 7:14-19.

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PetahChristian:

I see what you're saying, Dave, but I assumed the labels would appear inside the actual speech "A perfection of beauty, a joy for all the earth?" rather than at the beginning of the verse.

The labels are tagged against the original language version of the Bible, and then these are mapped to your English language Bibles using the reverse interlinear. If a word is added at the start or end of the selection of text, there's no good way to know that the added word is supposed to be part of the tagged text. If a word is added in the middle though, I believe it typically gets included in the tagged text.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 6 2018 7:35 PM

Dave Hooton:

This is at the discretion of Faithlife, because punctuation is an artefact of translation e.g. the LEB has quotes where the traveller is repeating a "saying", but ESV doesn't bother

Thanks very much, Dave, that explains a lot.

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
The labels are tagged against the original language version of the Bible, and then these are mapped to your English language Bibles using the reverse interlinear. If a word is added at the start or end of the selection of text, there's no good way to know that the added word is supposed to be part of the tagged text. If a word is added in the middle though, I believe it typically gets included in the tagged text.

Thanks for the explanation, Andrew!

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