Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary for Verbum??

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This post has 114 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 60
Patrick Fleischmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 12:21 PM

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!

EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!

Faithlife has a TOTAL FAIL on this one.  I was so encouraged when this was announced - that Verbum was going to be a TRULY Catholic Rite ready resource.   This makes it embarrassingly apparent it's a Protestant resource trying to cross market to Catholics. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 2:13 PM

Patrick Fleischmann:
Faithlife has a TOTAL FAIL on this one.

I understand what users want - an interactive for using the Liturgy of the Hours. But please keep in mind that Verbum has delivered what they advertised - a usable electronic facsimile of the 4 volume print copy. I am experimenting with various options for building a shareable daily/service liturgy tool - either like the lectionary tool that calls in the appropriate texts or a reading list that branches to them...I have some other projects to finish before I can seriously churn out the necessary text.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 3:28 PM

MJ. Smith:

Patrick Fleischmann:
Faithlife has a TOTAL FAIL on this one.

I understand what users want - an interactive for using the Liturgy of the Hours. But please keep in mind that Verbum has delivered what they advertised - a usable electronic facsimile of the 4 volume print copy. I am experimenting with various options for building a shareable daily/service liturgy tool - either like the lectionary tool that calls in the appropriate texts or a reading list that branches to them...I have some other projects to finish before I can seriously churn out the necessary text.

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Posts 611
Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 3:41 PM

Thank You MJ. Smith for working on a liturgy tool that will make using the LOTH easier. 

It would be nice if some of the staff at Logos would lend you a hand in this project. 

Right now it seems that there is both disappointment and confusion with this product (understandably so).

I believe that to ease it's use would be of great benefit to Faithlife (ease of use is stated in their own advertisement of the product). 

I think that it would be of benefit to Faithlife to assure their customers that they have heard their concerns and will be trying to do something in response to their request.

For Faithlife not to respond in some way (with action to improve the product) gives the customers the impression that they don't care. 

I don't think that is the message that they really want to send? At least I hope not.   

Pastor Jesse Blevins  

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 3:46 PM

Jesse Blevins:

For Faithlife not to respond in some way (with action to improve the product) gives the customers the impression that they don't care. 

I don't think that is the message that they really want to send? At least I hope not.   

perhaps their motto (after their response to the shopping cart icon) could be

et consueuerint ad eam Wink

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Posts 112
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 4:35 PM

This message is incorrect, I didn't scroll down far enough.  Disregard, comments about things being removed, nothing has been removed, the remarks I post here are still on the description page. My other comments stand.

M.J. Smith,

Unfortunately, that's not the description Verbum had earlier. What it used to say has been deleted.

This is what it used to say before it was changed.  It was changed after I posted paraphrasing it on Saturday May 22, 2021.  I know this because I checked to see what the wording was, and to be sure it said what I remember it said, which it did, so I posted my remark.  It was there then but it's been removed.  Thanks to archive.org the wording is preserved:

This edition features the standard four volume presentation of the liturgy of the hours. The Verbum software aligns the prayers of each day in a single, easy-to-use interface. No ribbons or flipping back and forth between various sections of the book.

The four volumes are sold as a single resource and not as individual volumes.

I added the BOLD text.

You can see it here. https://web.archive.org/web/20200809164054/https://verbum.com/product/188341/the-liturgy-of-the-hours-according-to-the-roman-rite

Someone seems to have removed EXACTLY the words that would support our mutual recollections. I am disgusted that anyone from a supposed Christian organization would employ this type of deceit on it's customers.
Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 4:38 PM

David J. Ring, Jr.:

M.J. Smith,

Unfortunately, that's not the description Verbum had earlier. What it used to say has been deleted.

This is what it used to say before it was changed.  It was changed after I posted paraphrasing it on Saturday May 22, 2021.  I know this because I checked to see what the wording was, and to be sure it said what I remember it said, which it did, so I posted my remark.  It was there then but it's been removed.  Thanks to archive.org the wording is preserved:

This edition features the standard four volume presentation of the liturgy of the hours. The Verbum software aligns the prayers of each day in a single, easy-to-use interface. No ribbons or flipping back and forth between various sections of the book.

The four volumes are sold as a single resource and not as individual volumes.

I added the BOLD text.

You can see it here. https://web.archive.org/web/20200809164054/https://verbum.com/product/188341/the-liturgy-of-the-hours-according-to-the-roman-rite

Someone seems to have removed EXACTLY the words that would support our mutual recollections. I am disgusted that anyone from a supposed Christian organization would employ this type of deceit on it's customers.

\

It can still be seen here: https://verbum.com/search?query=liturgy%20of%20the%20hours&sortBy=Relevance&limit=30&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe

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Posts 112
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 4:39 PM

This message is incorrect, I didn't scroll down far enough.  Disregard, comments about things being removed, nothing has been removed, the remarks I post here are still on the description page. My other comments stand.This is my earlier post, at which time the description was unchanged.

Posts 101 David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat May 22, 2021 8:12 PM

It only works if there's a feast day. It does not work for May 22, also for Saturdays the Evening Prayer for the next day, Sunday should be given.

Logos advertised this as something that would eliminate page flipping and ribbons (bookmarks), is this going to become available? Right now LOTH is not useful at all for me in Verbum.

LOTH is something to pray, I certainly understand why ribbons and page flipping are needed in a printed LOTH if it was printed in linear form the books would be tens of thousands of pages long. This is avoided in digital format but we don't have it, but we COULD have it, that is, it's possible, and I believe it's needed and that's what I paid for because that's what was advertised.

Posts 112
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 4:45 PM

This message is incorrect, I didn't scroll down far enough.  Disregard, comments about things being removed, nothing has been removed, the remarks I post here are still on the description page. My other comments stand.

Helo David Wanat,

No, the words have been changed, perhaps you're reading from your computer's cache.  The words I mentioned "The Verbum software aligns the prayers if each day in a single, easy-to-use interface.  No ribbons or flipping back and forth between various sections of the book." do NOT appear in the link you just gave.

Clear your cache, or use another browser and you will see the words above, the very words that support some of our recollections are missing.  I believe they have been removed.

It would be nice to have what they advertised, a SINGLE easy to use interface.

We don't have that.

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 4:57 PM

David J. Ring, Jr.:

This message is incorrect, I didn't scroll down far enough.  Disregard, comments about things being removed, nothing has been removed, the remarks I post here are still on the description page. My other comments stand.

Helo David Wanat,

No, the words have been changed, perhaps you're reading from your computer's cache.  The words I mentioned "The Verbum software aligns the prayers if each day in a single, easy-to-use interface.  No ribbons or flipping back and forth between various sections of the book." do NOT appear in the link you just gave.

Clear your cache, or use another browser and you will see the words above, the very words that support some of our recollections are missing.  I believe they have been removed.

It would be nice to have what they advertised, a SINGLE easy to use interface.

We don't have that.

Should have been more clear. What I meant was, using the search for Liturgy of the Hours, the landing page for the search shows they are promising the "easy to use interface." (quote). No, it's not in the product description now, but one could (and I do) argue that they still have it promised.

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Posts 277
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2021 10:33 AM

Morning Prayer for today is missing the Scriptural Reference for the Canticle (Jer 31:10-14).

Please note: this is for Volume III >> Four Week Psalter >> Thursday, Week 1 >> Morning Prayer.

(The correct reference appears in volumes 1, 2, and 4 on Thursday, Week 1 Morning Prayer)

Is the best way to report issues like this the Report Typo function in Verbum or is it worth posting them to the forums as well?

Missing Ref In LOTH Vol 3 Thursday Wk 1 Of Psalter

Posts 1657
LogosEmployee
Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2021 2:15 PM

Kevin Clemens:
Is the best way to report issues like this the Report Typo function in Verbum or is it worth posting them to the forums as well?

Typo is fine. We're going to be working on a few changes in the next couple of weeks. We'll look at those as well.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 3 2021 7:05 PM

When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.

-dan

Posts 5573
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 4 2021 11:07 AM

Dan Francis:
When did this product go from North America only to USA only....

Very recently. I don't know more than that.

Posts 329
LogosEmployee
Donald Antenen (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 9 2021 11:23 AM

Dan Francis:

When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.

-dan

Dan, I apologize for the inconvenience. The restriction is imposed by our contract with the rights holder.

Posts 2844
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 12 2021 5:30 AM

Donald Antenen (Faithlife):

Dan Francis:

When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.

-dan

Dan, I apologize for the inconvenience. The restriction is imposed by our contract with the rights holder.

And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 12 2021 9:49 AM

David Ames:
And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?

From the title page, it appears to be Catholic Book Publishing Corp. out of New York.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 12 2021 10:44 AM

MJ. Smith:

David Ames:
And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?

From the title page, it appears to be Catholic Book Publishing Corp. out of New York.

Curiously, there’s a long list of countries it’s approved for (Physical book). But I have heard that there are a lot of subgroups holding rights too (The Divine Office app ran into trouble there). So it could be one of them too. It sounds bewildering.

Quite possibly we’ll need to do it all over again in 2024: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/youre-gonna-need-a-new-breviary-heres

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Posts 5573
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 1:01 PM

David Wanat:
Quite possibly we’ll need to do it all over again in 2024: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/youre-gonna-need-a-new-breviary-heres

Next time will be much simpler: the NABRE (unlike the NAB) will still be available to be licensed, and the copyrights for every single liturgical text in the LotH outside the public domain will belong to ICEL or the USCCB. Unless they include copyrighted Latin texts (e.g., hymns), in which case it would be LEV. Still much simpler.

Posts 112
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 2:42 PM

I've already commented at how it would be so much better if this was a "one click" book to read. I bought this because it is confusing to find the right place for the ribbons, and I certainly understand why there must be ribbons, without them the LOTH would be probably ten times as large as much of what is said daily is said many times throughout the year.

BUT even without that convenience, which is what I thought Verbum's LOTH was going to be, we need a yearly guide to tell us what readings are needed for each day.

The current system of Verbum bookmarks is less convenient (at least so far) than a physical ribbon and a printed book.  But I'm open minded, I'll give this a good try.

Example:

Ribbon Placement: 2021 Apr 03, for Holy Saturday
This was the LAST DATE that Divine Office.org published the Ribbon Placements.

Invitatory 

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Antiphon: 467
Psalm: 1044

Office of Readings

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1045
All from Proper of Seasons: 492

Morning Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1049
All from Proper of Seasons: 499

Midmorning Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
Complementary Psalmody: 1651 (Midmorning)
Proper of Seasons: 507 (antiphon, reading, concluding prayer)

Midday Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
All from Proper of Seasons: 504

Midafternoon Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
Complementary Psalmody: 1655 (Midafternoon)
Proper of Seasons: 508 (antiphon, reading, concluding prayer)

Evening Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1064
All from Proper of Seasons: 509

Night Prayer

Liturgy of the Hours Vol II:
Page 1628
Antiphon following Reading: Page 514

Electronically it should be possible to open Verbum click on LOTH and have the names of the Hours before you and if "Morning Prayer" is clicked, have one page assembled from the various paper pages in the printed volumes before you ready and easy to read.  Such a joy that would be, especially as I get older and even the LARGE PRINT volumes of LOTH are difficult to read, with Verbum, I can make the letters very, very large.

So we need a Supplement to tell us where the readings are for each day!

One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.

Thanks,

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