Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary for Verbum??

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This post has 114 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 60
Patrick Fleischmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 3:28 PM

I agree SO MUCH with this post.  EXACTLY what the folks at FL need to read and understand.  And something I'm betting 99% of the people at FL who worked on this particular acquisition did NOT understand.

Posts 5546
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 4:49 PM

David J. Ring, Jr.:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.

You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.

Posts 110
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 5:37 PM

Yes, it published by the same people that publish the Liturgy of the Hours, https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/95 I guess the important thing is the Author, the author of the Guide is Catholic Book Publishing, and the author of the LOTH is ICEL (INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON ENGLISH IN THE LITURGY).

Who's to say Verbum couldn't publish their own Guide, even a perpetual guide.

In my opinion, the Guide should be perpetual and be like the "Catholic Daily Readings" that comes with the Lectionary (catdayreadus LLS:CATDAYREADUS) and since that particular publication only comes with the Lectionary it could have the readings that are marked "TEXT" given.  It's a separate resource than the other "Catholic Daily Readings"  (cathlect LLS:CATHLECT) 

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 7:00 AM

SineNomine:

David J. Ring, Jr.:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.

You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.

Funny you mention this but I have a copy on my desk right now. We're in the very beginning stages of trying to put this out.

Also: I've got a number of updates to LOTH that I'm getting ready to put out. The biggest changes will involve

  • Including the text for the Canticle of Zechariah and the Canticle of Mary wherever it appears
  • Using the text display function you find in lectionaries to present Bible text. Yes we know that the readings found in the print LOTH are for a specific version and are often abridged but we felt this was the closest compromise that we could do at the moment. It felt more simple than clicking on hyperlinks (which will still remain).
  • Fixing any reported typos

Once the update is ready I'll reply again with the full list of changes.

Posts 110
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 7:54 AM

Catholic Publishing gets it's information from somewhere, maybe ICEL, for the daily readings for the LOTH and Christian Prayer it publishes.

I don't see how publishing an electronic resource would cut in on their sales, but I don't know what type of license they have from their source, probably ICEL, if that is the case, I suggest that Verbum approach the source of this information, explain their need and ask for permission or license to use the information for the benefit of Verbum users praying the LOTH.

I know the web of licensing is complicated for LOTH, but it seems most of this is done, and what is needed is a license or permission to use ICEL's readings for the LOTH.

If Catholic Publishers has rights to this information's use then obtain a license or find out when it expires and apply for a license then.

Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings.  If so buy a license from them.

-30-

Posts 5546
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 8:14 AM

Kyle G. Anderson:

SineNomine:

David J. Ring, Jr.:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.

You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.

Funny you mention this but I have a copy on my desk right now. We're in the very beginning stages of trying to put this out.

That's very good news. Yes

David J. Ring, Jr.:
Catholic Publishing gets it's information from somewhere, maybe ICEL, for the daily readings for the LOTH and Christian Prayer it publishes.

In principle, CBP doesn't need to get its information on which texts to use when from anywhere; as long as they have even one employee who knows how to pray LotH, they have the information in-house.

Posts 327
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Donald Antenen (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 8:54 AM

David J. Ring, Jr.:
Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings.  If so buy a license from them.

From what I understand, iBreviary operates without any licensing agreement whatsoever.

Posts 1251
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 10:12 AM

Donald Antenen (Faithlife):

David J. Ring, Jr.:
Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings.  If so buy a license from them.

From what I understand, iBreviary operates without any licensing agreement whatsoever.

I’m curious about that. The DivineOffice app got caught in a quagmire over the multitude of copyrights. Of course they were charging back then and I think iBreviary is free (as DivineOffice is now).

I could be wrong, but I assumed your limitations were based on similar restrictions.

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 10:22 AM

SineNomine:

In principle, CBP doesn't need to get its information on which texts to use when from anywhere; as long as they have even one employee who knows how to pray LotH, they have the information in-house.

Been awhile since I used the physical volumes, but i think that booklet is just a matter of CBP doing the “legwork” and looking up the page nos. of the psalter and readings of the specific day were. I guess there’s nothing to stop FL from doing the same legwork (if you know which psalter week you’re on, you can do it without the booklet)… though the consequences for them guessing wrong is probably going to be more serious than if i guess wrong.

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Posts 611
Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 17 2021 1:05 PM

Friends, 

I came across this while looking for help: https://straymonds.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/loh_guide.pdf 

It seems to try to provide some explanation of the LOTH and provide an easy explanation for how to find the prayers of the day. 

Posts 327
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Donald Antenen (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 29 2021 3:54 PM

If you haven't tried out Liturgy of the Hours in the lectionary layout, give it a try. St. Augustine's homily for the memorial of St. Martha is great: https://twitter.com/Verbum/status/1420865544329187330 

Keep an eye out for an update next week. We continue to work on the Breviary to make it better.

Posts 1
Jesse Richardson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 5 2021 11:13 AM

Thank you for the  Liturgy of the Hours.  It is point and click for me and makes reading a lot easier, since I can adjust the size of the text.  Reading this has encouraged me to purchase the Roman Missal and Lectionary from your organization.  Sometimes the daily readings are hard to find mainly because each of my sources has their own idea of what the readings should be for that day.  I do have one question, why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text??  Thanks again for the adjustments you made which are now showing up.

Posts 5546
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 5 2021 12:19 PM

Jesse Richardson:
 I do have one question, why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text??

Welcome to the forums! Smile

It is false that Catholics never print it as a common text. It is printed in full in the Ordinary of the 2011 Roman Missal.

In all likelihood, it was not printed in the Ordinary of the Liturgy of the Hours because, at the time, the entire intended audience of the Liturgy of the Hours actually did know the Our Father in the only English translation any Catholics ever used.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 5 2021 2:01 PM

Jesse Richardson:
why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text?

In both Catholic and Orthodox liturgical books, the common prayers and responses are often shortened to their first few words and printed in full only once in the resource. Why? To keep printing costs down and to keep the physical books a managable size. The same reason the year two daily readings for the Office of Readings was never implemented.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1251
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 5 2021 2:47 PM

I see the Scripture readings are now added in, which is an improvement, though if it has improved navigation, I haven't discovered it yet.

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