Denominational Tagging of Resources?

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Chris K | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 4 2018 11:56 AM

I think this might have been mentioned a long time ago, but has this been implemented in Logos 8 by chance?

Example: I am looking through my library and want to see what denomination/theological persuasion a specific book is from.  Is it listed somewhere?

Can we filter our library by specific denomination/theological persuasions (automatic collections?)?

If not, are these features something that could be added?  They would be very helpful!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 12:02 PM

Chris K:
but has this been implemented in Logos 8 by chance?

No

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 12:11 PM

Chris K:
Can we filter our library by specific denomination/theological persuasions (automatic collections?)?

This suggestion comes up every so often Chris but the subjectivity of the judgement has defeated the crew.

I guess that if they categorised 'The Five Points of Calvinism' as Calvinistic there would be somebody who disagreed and made a big fuss about it. :-)

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 12:21 PM

Mike Binks:

Chris K:
Can we filter our library by specific denomination/theological persuasions (automatic collections?)?

This suggestion comes up every so often Chris but the subjectivity of the judgement has defeated the crew.

I guess that if they categorised 'The Five Points of Calvinism' as Calvinistic there would be somebody who disagreed and made a big fuss about it. :-)

I do see this, but why can't a resource be tagged for more than one denomination?  Or not tagged at all if it is too general to narrow down?

They have already curated resources that are valuable to specific denominations through their Logos Packages, so it would seem there is a database somewhere already - I don't see how something like this would be too terribly difficult.  

Even adding in the resources from the different base packages as automatic collections: Baptist, Orthodox, Catholic, etc. would be a good start.

I am proud to have a fairly vast collection spanning a variety of resources.  When looking at a specific one, it would be incredibly helpful to know (with some ease and speed) what persuasion it falls under. To me, that would seem like a pretty basic academic/research need.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 12:54 PM

Chris K:
why can't a resource be tagged for more than one denomination?

as has been named and alluded to, there are just too many variables (let alone too many denominations).  It's something that likely needs to be left to the individual user, such as yourself.  Some works may have clear denominational ties (Baptist Quarterly, say) but other situations are too squirrely. As has been said, it is just often too subjective.  Think about a man who is Baptist but is talking about a subject matter that transcends specific Baptist distinction?  Or a person from a denomination who might differ from the prevailing denominational bent (such as a scholar who writes from an amillenial perspective within a denomination dominated by dispensational pre-millenialism.). Or encyclopedias that have authors from 34 different denominations.  I personally come from a non-denominational "heritage" (Christian churches/churches of Christ) that has a variety of positions on eschatology, pneumatology, etc.  Some of our works could easily be tagged as "denominational" (such as early works and debates where they were setting forth their prevailing, time-based positions over against other denominations) but other works may not be so clear.  

what are specific examples of what you would like to see?  What is your perceived need?  Do you perhaps see limitations to being able to carry this out?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 1:26 PM

Phil had mentioned last year that "this is definitely something we'd like to do."

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Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 1:38 PM

PetahChristian:

Phil had mentioned last year that "this is definitely something we'd like to do."

that would be great to see!  Hope it is something that could happen soon!

to answer @Friedrich, some of the examples I listed above.  When working with doctrinal topics and looking at ecumenical perspectives, it is helpful to know what persuasion a resource is.  

Also, I might be researching something and would only want to find resources within a certain persuasion.  

I get that there are an u told amount of denominations within Christianity (a sad reality of you ask me), and so there will always be disagreements as to what resources would belong to which one(s), but many are obvious and many of them would follow the persuasion of the author.  Furthermore, Logos Packages already “defines” many of them to a degree. This feature would be helpful - even if it merely “suggests“ the persuasion(s) and not created to be definitive.  

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 1:52 PM

The best thing we have right now is the work of one of our Forum members to link authors and their denominations. He has even created some collection rules you can download so you can sort your library by denomination.

You can find the spreadsheet he has created and extensive discussion here. The collection rules are here. (You may have to join this group to see the list of collections.)

Until FL adds tagging, this is the best we have.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 1:56 PM

Chris K:

that would be great to see!  Hope it is something that could happen soon!

to answer @Friedrich, some of the examples I listed above.  When working with doctrinal topics and looking at ecumenical perspectives, it is helpful to know what persuasion a resource is.  

i'm thinking it would be helpful in certain, limited, applications.  And perhaps just accept that certain resources may not necessarily be taggable.  It would be interesting to see if FL could even elicit the help of denominational representatives to suggest what works could be tagged as representing their denomination.  I still see it getting kind of squirrely.   anyway, all that said, I've kind of had the same wondering, myself.  although I think I also have thought I would like automatic tagging for theological viewpoints, even if denominational connections may be shaky.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 2:18 PM

Mark Smith:

The best thing we have right now is the work of one of our Forum members to link authors and their denominations. He has even created some collection rules you can download so you can sort your library by denomination.

You can find the spreadsheet he has created and extensive discussion here. The collection rules are here. (You may have to join this group to see the list of collections.)

thx so much!

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Mark Smith:

You can find the spreadsheet he has created and extensive discussion here. The collection rules are here. (You may have to join this group to see the list of collections.)

If those collections haven't been rewritten to use the new {Author}, {Series}, and {Publisher} syntax, they will run slowly, be less accurate, and slow down your Logos program (see Mark’s warning here: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/174613/1008967.aspx#1008967). I would recommend avoiding them until they're updated, or proceed with caution (and be willing to delete collections if you start noticing problems).

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2018 5:38 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
If those collections haven't been rewritten to use the new {Author}, {Series}, and {Publisher} syntax,

Where is the syntax documented, Bradley?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 228
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 3:51 AM

Mike Binks:

Chris K:
Can we filter our library by specific denomination/theological persuasions (automatic collections?)?

This suggestion comes up every so often Chris but the subjectivity of the judgement has defeated the crew.

I guess that if they categorised 'The Five Points of Calvinism' as Calvinistic there would be somebody who disagreed and made a big fuss about it. :-)

For me the real problem here is that most denominations are diverse within themselves leading to some extra labels being appended i.e. "Freewill Baptists" or "Calvinistic Pentecostals". 

My personal wish, at least theologically, is that Faithlife would separate Pentecostal and Charismatic, I understand why they have done this but as a Pentecostal I see the linking of the two as quite arbitrary. That said I recognise that the packaging enables them to deliver some of the Pentecostal Books that I really want at a better price point due to economies of scale so commercially this works but theologically it does not. Based on my personal and denominational background I typically find Wesleyan Methodist materials much more useful than the Charismatic ones.

But what is the difference between Pentecostals and Charismatics? Actually this question works well for any two denominations or "streams".

Discussing this with some colleagues over the weekend we concluded two things:

  • Historical point of origin - depending on your own analysis this will vary but what we now know as Pentecostalism emerged between 1870 and 1920 whereas I would suggest that what we call Charismatics started emerging in the 1970s, possibly the 1960s and in some contexts is still emerging.
  • Impact of origin - emerging Pentecostals were typically required to leave the Church they attended or renounce their new found Spirit Filled beliefs, this has had a profound impact on core Pentecostal Theology and the diversity that exists. In some cases a form of persecution followed that led to a separation. Historically most would probably argue that a form of Wesleyan Holiness dominated the early movement. In contrast Charismatics have typically remained with the denomination so we end up with Charismatic Anglicans, Charismatic Baptists, Charismatic Catholics, etc. This has a real impact on the theological perspective of Charismatic authors which is incredibly diverse.

This of course is not a definitive assessment and I suspect we might reach some different conclusions if we discussed this in 3 months time. 

My guess is that if any group of Christians from any denomination had a similar discussion about differences within their denomination or differences between them and another a similar picture would emerge and answering  "what makes us who we are" and "how did we get here?" would prove hard question to answer definitively and might well through up some interesting and unexpected links. For example from a Pentecostal perspective; elements of the approach to the Sacraments can be traced via Wesley to Catholicism (in some not all Pentecostal traditions).

Long winded way of saying I think that getting definitions for denominational beliefs that we all agree with is probably impossible.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 4:42 AM

Have you seen this thread? 

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/54491.aspx 

Suggestion: Make a collection using the 'rules' listed.  Tag all the items with something meaningful and then delete the collection so you don't slow down to rebuild the collection every time you run logos but still can use MyTag: to use it.  

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 9:46 AM

David Ames:

Have you seen this thread? 

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/54491.aspx 

Suggestion: Make a collection using the 'rules' listed.  Tag all the items with something meaningful and then delete the collection so you don't slow down to rebuild the collection every time you run logos but still can use MyTag: to use it.  

hadn't seen it.  thanks!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1019
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 10:22 AM

I think it's a shame that we're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, or at least of the "reasonably useful" here.  Granted that there are endless denominational distinctions, and granted that people move from one group to another over their lifetimes, and granted that sometimes it's hard to peg down exactly where a historical thinker might fall.  Still, I personally would find it immensely helpful if FaithLife included a high-level, good-faith tagging by historical tradition.  It wouldn't have to be perfect - Wikipedia-level accuracy and specificity, for instance, would perhaps  more than I would ever need or expect.  It would just be handy to get a quick general sense for roughly where in the mix of the different Christian traditions a resource falls.

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 10:44 AM

EastTN:

I think it's a shame that we're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, or at least of the "reasonably useful" here. 

Amen to that!

Posts 195
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2018 10:45 AM

David Ames:

Have you seen this thread? 

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/54491.aspx 

Suggestion: Make a collection using the 'rules' listed.  Tag all the items with something meaningful and then delete the collection so you don't slow down to rebuild the collection every time you run logos but still can use MyTag: to use it.  

Thanks so much for that thread info!

Posts 16
Angela Lott | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2018 10:54 PM

I fully agree that we should be able to sort by denomination / tradition. When I go to buy something on Logos.com, I can search for resources by tradition there so obviously there is tagging already done. I don't see why that can't be done within one's library and why I have to go through all the creating collections and researching which resources are in what denomination and tediously add them myself when it is quite obvious that on some level this is already known and done otherwise I wouldn't be able to search through resources by tradition on Logos.com's website. Sure maybe it would not be the most accurate all the time but it's a whole lot more than what we currently have.

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