Can Logos show 'ACTUAL' discount rate at the product page

Currently it is very confusing when I look at the discount rate beside the price in a product page. The discount shown now is always the combination of (1) current discount + (2) all the books I already own in that book set.

For example, the current NICOT/NICNT is having a 40% discount promotion now, i suppose. But the discount shown on the product page for me is 98%, because i already own the NICOT/NICNT from last promotion (48 books), and since then, 3 new books were added to the set (total 51 books), so i only need to add 3 books for $35. So instead of honestly showing the discount for the 3 books as 40%, it is showing discount of 98%, which does not help at all and make people confused.

Please kindly look into this and correct it. Thanks a lot.

Benny

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Comments

GaoLu

I agree. The % discount presently displayed doesn't reflect anything useful for making a purchase. The figure just sits there annoyingly because I know it doesn't mean anything helpful. I have to go figure the ACTUAL discount out for myself which isn't easy.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015519#Comment_1015519

Hear! Here.

danwdoo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015522#Comment_1015522

Definitely agree. I usually have to look at each item's price listing in a bundle and compare the normal price to try and figure out what discount there is, if any.

Celeste Fiorillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015529#Comment_1015529

Thanks for the feedback.
I wanted to make sure you knew that we have a tooltip that helps explain how the discount is calculated based on what you own and what sale might be happening:

danwdoo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015658#Comment_1015658

I had no idea that was there. That is great!

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015658#Comment_1015658

.. but still the values for discount and saving doesn't make sense....

It never did.

Celeste Fiorillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015665#Comment_1015665

.. but still the values for discount and saving doesn't make sense....

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

We try to display our pricing in a transparent way, but there is a lot of complicated math going on behind the scenes. Striking the balance between "all the details" and "simple to understand" can be tricky. I'd love to hear your feedback on what you're looking for and what doesn't make sense.

Thanks!

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015670#Comment_1015670

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

The same as the OP explained in his example.

We try to display our pricing in a transparent way, but there is a lot of complicated math going on behind the scenes. Striking the balance between "all the details" and "simple to understand" can be tricky.

This doesn't sound very transparant...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015658#Comment_1015658

If the tooltip behaved as the posted one, there'd be less confusion. My situation is as OP. I've got three remaining to purchase on the NIC set and I'm getting a 96% discount, when it's more like 40%.

Celeste Fiorillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015686#Comment_1015686

If the tooltip behaved as the posted one, there'd be less confusion. My situation is as OP. I've got three remaining to purchase on the NIC set and I'm getting a 96% discount, when it's more like 40%.

Thanks for the reply - are you saying you'd prefer to see the % you save based on dynamic pricing and the % you save based on the sale as separate values instead of included in the single "You Save" price at the bottom?

We're showing the $ savings from the sale vs dynamic pricing in red. Just clarifying that the combined % is the issue?
Thanks for helping us understand what would help you on our website!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015694#Comment_1015694

Speaking for myself, I find the % value based on my remaining purchases clearer; In this case ~40% or so.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015695#Comment_1015695

If you do not pay for the same book twice it is misleading to treat such adjustments as a discount, as it is not a reduction to what the normal price would be but an adjustment to get to the normal price.

it really does seem to be the opposite of transparent and frankly is misleading.

Celeste Fiorillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015722#Comment_1015722

If you do not pay for the same book twice it is misleading to treat such adjustments as a discount, as it is not a reduction to what the normal price would be but an adjustment to get to the normal price.

it really does seem to be the opposite of transparent and frankly is misleading.

I understand how it would feel misleading for people who are already familiar with our dynamic pricing program and know that you do not pay for the same book twice. Many of our users, especially newer ones, don't realize that we discount things based on what you already own (not all digital companies discount bundles if you own it partially, so it's not automatically assumed). Showing that a price is lower than the regular price is a way of highlighting dynamic pricing.

I agree that we could improve how we display dynamic pricing vs a discount from specific sale, and I appreciate your feedback. This is something we continue to discuss, and it is never our intention to be misleading. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015739#Comment_1015739

Thanks a lot. We hope that the actual discount percentage based only on the books we are buying will be shown soon, as that will make it much easier for us to determine which material to purchase first based on the current actual discount of the remaining items in a package or bundle. Because things that we already paid for is really not part of the current discount. For us, many times we have limited financial resources and we purchase based on the current discount of the products. For example, if multiple bundles are in discount at the same time, and i already own something in each of those bundles, the current discount percentage shown in each bundle will not help me to make the buying decision at all, as even something is shown as 96% discount, it may just means i already own most of the items within the bundle, and the actual discount is only 40%, while another bundle, that i only own very few items, the discount may show as 60% currently, but it is actually a better deal than the bundle that is showing 96% discount.. Hope you can see this point and the benefit for us, but i think it is also beneficial for Faithlife, as less confusion = easier decision = more purchase. Which is a win / win situation for all parties. Thanks again!

Benny

danwdoo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015694#Comment_1015694

are you saying you'd prefer to see the % you save based on dynamic pricing and the % you save based on the sale as separate values instead of included in the single "You Save" price at the bottom?

We're showing the $ savings from the sale vs dynamic pricing in red. Just clarifying that the combined % is the issue?

This would definitely be my preference. There is a lot of non-sale 'noise' when every bundle appears to be on sale because I already own one or more items included. If I can scan my Wishlist and see actual sale percentages at a glance, that would be helpful to me rather than having to check details on each one to see if I am actually saving on the remaining volumes or just off dynamic pricing.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015694#Comment_1015694

Thanks for the reply - are you saying you'd prefer to see the % you save based on dynamic pricing and the % you save based on the sale as separate values instead of included in the single "You Save" price at the bottom?

We're showing the $ savings from the sale vs dynamic pricing in red. Just clarifying that the combined % is the issue?
Thanks for helping us understand what would help you on our website!

I agree this is an important issue, and I understand why people feel misled. With dynamic pricing, we're not getting a discount — we're paying less and getting less. If Faithlife wouldn't say that a 20-volume set represents a 50% savings on the 40-volume set, it shouldn't say that I'm saving XX% when I buy something with dynamic pricing.

So my preference would be:

That percentage savings NEVER take dynamic pricing into consideration.
That red highlighting is NEVER used for a dynamic pricing discount (use a different colour if you must).

The "Custom Discount" pop-up is nearly fine. All it needs is for the %age amount to be moved from the total and added instead to the sale line (and ideally the "You Save" line removed). As it stands, I have to do the maths in my head every time I look at it. That reduces my purchases, not adds to them.

James McAdams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015821#Comment_1015821

I would definitely want the total percentage price difference (including dynamic price) to be the most prominent figure, however the breakdown appears.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015823#Comment_1015823

I would definitely want the total percentage price difference (including dynamic price) to be the most prominent figure, however the breakdown appears.

Do you mind me asking why? In the example given above, how does the 94% 'discount' help you?

James McAdams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015831#Comment_1015831

Do you mind me asking why? In the example given above, how does the 94% 'discount' help you?

When I first started to use Logos, it was just the mobile app and freebies because I didn't want to risk buying a large package, but assumed that I'd have to repurchase the same material if I tested the waters first - it was only when browsing the store that I realised that Logos offered Dynamic pricing - something my previous bible app didn't offer, nor any other shop that I use - that I realised it made Logos something I could invest in.
It shows collections I have that are nearly complete (and gives an indication as to how nearly complete they are) at a glance.
I quite often buy items on sale because, elsewhere, they're part of bundles that I want to buy with a dynamic pricing discount - it's a way of chipping away at the price. I want to see those bundles highlighted along with the discount I've accrued.

There are more reasons, but they're mostly variations on the same themes.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015837#Comment_1015837

I'm with James.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015915#Comment_1015915

I'm believe 'sale' means discounted price. It doesn't mean 'we don't charge you twice'. In our state anyway, for which FL has operations.

In theory, they could visit Bellingham Junior College for another word. Granted, that'd be unimpressively honest.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015920#Comment_1015920

Since some want to see the sale discount, while others want to see the total discount, perhaps FL could make one small addition to the popup that might satisfy both parties:

On a related note, I'd like to see this type of popup added back to base packages, so we can actually see our expected (e.g., Introductory, Connect, and/or Academic) discount being applied to libraries and base packages.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015927#Comment_1015927

Since some want to see the sale discount, while others want to see the total discount, perhaps FL could make one small addition to the popup that might satisfy both parties:

On a related note, I'd like to see this type of popup added back to base packages, so we can actually see our expected (e.g., Introductory, Connect, and/or Academic) discount being applied to libraries and base packages.

This set up on base packages, as Petah indicates, would be excellent on large libraries, these base packages, and large collections as well.

Into Grace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015658#Comment_1015658

Thanks for the feedback.
I wanted to make sure you knew that we have a tooltip that helps explain how the discount is calculated based on what you own and what sale might be happening:

Showing us a toolkit that 99% of users don't know about is a poor explanation. Logos has been using deceptive discount labels for years. I am tired of it.

Leo Wee Fah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015915#Comment_1015915

I'm with James.

Me too...

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015927#Comment_1015927

Since some want to see the sale discount, while others want to see the total discount, perhaps FL could make one small addition to the popup that might satisfy both parties:

Yes! Since I try to do exactly that math in my head anyways, it would help a lot.

And also to somehow differentiate the red "sales" entries in the wishlist between "just" DP and a sale going on right now for this product would be helpful.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015958#Comment_1015958

And also to somehow differentiate the red "sales" entries in the wishlist between "just" DP and a sale going on right now for this product would be helpful.

Yes, it would be great for sale items to stand out from products priced at our regular dynamic price that aren't on sale.

I hope a change like that could also applied to the store, letting us also sort by actual sale discounts.

I'd think customers would be more likely to buy an item that a sale discounts by 90%, rather than a dynamically priced item that is not on sale at all.

James McAdams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015953#Comment_1015953

Showing us a toolkit that 99% of users don't know about is a poor explanation. Logos has been using deceptive discount labels for years. I am tired of it.

If nothing else can be taken from the thread, I think it’s proof that a proportion of the replies are from people who like (even prefer) the current system - in light of that, it doesn’t seem fair (to me) to call it deceptive.

If they can add in the percentage on different rows then nobody is worse off, and if they could make it visible without clicking the tooltip (without complicating the page too much) then it seems like a positive win for almost every need - the only issue that I think would be left if they implemented that would be the discount they show on the list view (search results). Obviously we disagree on that one and it seems unavoidable that one of us will have the less preferred option.

Into Grace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016004#Comment_1016004

Showing us a toolkit that 99% of users don't know about is a poor explanation. Logos has been using deceptive discount labels for years. I am tired of it.

If nothing else can be taken from the thread, I think it’s proof that a proportion of the replies are from people who like (even prefer) the current system - in light of that, it doesn’t seem fair (to me) to call it deceptive.

I make no apologies. I believe that Logos is deceptive in the savings they display for dynamic prices.

James McAdams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016014#Comment_1016014

I make no apologies. I believe that Logos is deceptive in the savings they display for dynamic prices.

But how do you account for the people (like me) who say they think this system is more helpful for them? Could it not be the case that people might simply have different points of view on this topic without anyone being deceptive/dishonest?

Into Grace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016017#Comment_1016017

I make no apologies. I believe that Logos is deceptive in the savings they display for dynamic prices.

But how do you account for the people (like me) who say they think this system is more helpful for them? Could it not be the case that people might simply have different points of view on this topic without anyone being deceptive/dishonest?

I’m only speaking for myself. We both have a right to our opinions. I don’t have any anger towards you. Blessings

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016017#Comment_1016017

I make no apologies. I believe that Logos is deceptive in the savings they display for dynamic prices.

But how do you account for the people (like me) who say they think this system is more helpful for them? Could it not be the case that people might simply have different points of view on this topic without anyone being deceptive/dishonest?

Into Grace says its bad. James says its good. Both are right from their point of view.

James' opinion is not better because it can be construed as nicer. Both opinions are judgements; one gathers data, and then decides.

I hold the opinion that the monetary listing should be as Petah suggests. I believe FL can do better here.

Is my opinion better? To me, yes; to others, maybe not.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016004#Comment_1016004

the only issue that I think would be left if they implemented that would be the discount they show on the list view (search results)

If FL let us also sort by the sale discount, I wouldn't mind if the list view still showed the total discount. It would be enough for me to have the 90% off sales at the top, and the 0% off dynamic prices at the bottom.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016004#Comment_1016004

if they could make it visible without clicking the tooltip (without complicating the page too much)

Sale item product pages have a "Sale" indicator on the top left corner of their product image.

Perhaps FL could overlay the sale percentage there? It would be subtle, so it probably wouldn't complicate the page at all.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016033#Comment_1016033

the only issue that I think would be left if they implemented that would be the discount they show on the list view (search results)

If FL let us also sort by the sale discount, I wouldn't mind if the list view still showed the total discount. It would be enough for me to have the 90% off sales at the top, and the 0% off dynamic prices at the bottom.

It already works like this. Sorting by savings doesn't take dynamic pricing savings into consideration. Notice that the two dynamically priced products display a high percentage saving, but they're sorted with the other products that are around 37% off.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1016061#Comment_1016061

It already works like this. Sorting by savings doesn't take dynamic pricing savings into consideration. Notice that the two dynamically priced products display a high percentage saving, but they're sorted with the other products that are around 37% off.

Ah, I had definitely noticed that "odd" sorting before, but assumed it was a bug, and had no idea what it was actually showing.

Thanks, Mark, great to know that feature already is there!

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1015927#Comment_1015927

...perhaps FL could make one small addition to the popup that might satisfy both parties:

Now there's a very good idea.

On a related note, I'd like to see this type of popup added back to base packages, so we can actually see our expected (e.g., Introductory, Connect, and/or Academic) discount being applied to libraries and base packages.

Yes, please!