Can I Recover this Note?

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 30 2018 6:44 AM

I was reviewing some notes in my NIVAC commentary on Genesis and wanted to change the style of a highlight.  I also had a note attached to the highlighted text.  The note was a result of some web research I had done and I didn't want to lose that, so I was careful to select only the highlighting and not the note icon.  I did a CTRL+SHIFT+K to remove the existing highlight style so I could apply a new style, but the note disappeared along with the highlighting.

I have not found a way to recover the note.  Is there a way?  Also, for future reference, is there a way to select and change a highlight style without losing the note?

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 30 2018 6:59 AM

Rick Ausdahl:

I was reviewing some notes in my NIVAC commentary on Genesis and wanted to change the style of a highlight.  I also had a note attached to the highlighted text.  The note was a result of some web research I had done and I didn't want to lose that, so I was careful to select only the highlighting and not the note icon.  I did a CTRL+SHIFT+K to remove the existing highlight style so I could apply a new style, but the note disappeared along with the highlighting.

I have not found a way to recover the note.  Is there a way?  Also, for future reference, is there a way to select and change a highlight style without losing the note?

OK ...I found "a" way to recover the note, but I don't know if it was the best/easiest way, and, I'm still hoping there's a way to change an existing highlight style directly within the resource, without Logos removing the note icon if there's an actual note in addition to the highlighting.

The method I used to recover the note was to apply the new highlight style I wanted to the text, then right-click on the highlighted text and select "Open annotations".  I could see the note was still in the annotations even though the note icon had disappeared from the text in the commentary, so with the text still highlighted in the commentary, I selected the note in the annotations tab and selected the "Add anchor" option.  I now have the new highlighting style applied and have the note reapplied, but I'm hoping there's a better/right way to do this.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 2:48 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
I was reviewing some notes in my NIVAC commentary on Genesis and wanted to change the style of a highlight.  I also had a note attached to the highlighted text.  The note was a result of some web research I had done and I didn't want to lose that, so I was careful to select only the highlighting and not the note icon.  I did a CTRL+SHIFT+K to remove the existing highlight style so I could apply a new style, but the note disappeared along with the highlighting.

It was a highlight with a note/annotation, so the safest way is to change the style from the Notes tool.

Dave
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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 6:56 AM

Dave Hooton:

Rick Ausdahl:
I was reviewing some notes in my NIVAC commentary on Genesis and wanted to change the style of a highlight.  I also had a note attached to the highlighted text.  The note was a result of some web research I had done and I didn't want to lose that, so I was careful to select only the highlighting and not the note icon.  I did a CTRL+SHIFT+K to remove the existing highlight style so I could apply a new style, but the note disappeared along with the highlighting.

It was a highlight with a note/annotation, so the safest way is to change the style from the Notes tool.

Thank you, Dave--your help is much appreciated. 

I have two follow-up/clarification questions I'm wondering if you can answer.

  1. I thought that with Logos 8 and the new notes system, highlights and notes were finally supposed to be independent of one another.  Am I mistaken about that?
  2. Is there still no way to highlight a text string and attach a note to the same text string, without Logos subsequently handling the highlight and the note (two separate entities based on function and time of creation) as a single entity? 
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 8:32 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
I thought that with Logos 8 and the new notes system, highlights and notes were finally supposed to be independent of one another.  Am I mistaken about that?

They are seen as different things - and the Notes Tool allows you to filter by either Notes or Highlights

However it is possible to create a highlight and then add some content to it. This doesn't change the type from Highlight to Note - and there has been some discussion as to whether it should

Rick Ausdahl:
Is there still no way to highlight a text string and attach a note to the same text string, without Logos subsequently handling the highlight and the note (two separate entities based on function and time of creation) as a single entity? 

That is possible.

In the screenshot below I created a highlight on Matt 1:5-6 in the ESV 3 months ago.

I've just selected that text and added a note to it and they are treated as separate entities

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 9:16 AM

Thank you, Graham.  That sounds encouraging, but I must be doing something wrong because L8 still "bundling" and removing the note icon along with the actual highlight when using CTRL+Shift+K on just the highlight.

I replicated the original scenario I posted, but I did it from scratch so everything including the original highlighting and note was done within L8, rather than working with a highlight and note previously entered in L7 and modified in L8.

The steps I took were as follows:

  1. I selected the text and used the "Y" shortcut key I had previously set up to apply a yellow highlight to the selected text.
  2. I moved the cursor off the highlighted text and did a mouse-click elsewhere to take the focus off the selected text (just in case leaving the text highlighted was a problem/factor).
  3. I reselected the highlighted text, did a right-click on it and selected the option to add a note.  I added the note, then again moved the cursor to take the focus off the selected text.
  4. I reselected the highlighted text and did a CTRL+Shift+K.  The note icon disappeared along with the highlighting.
  5. I again moved the cursor to take the focus off the selected text, then reselected the text and reapplied a yellow highlight using the "Y" shortcut key.  The highlighting was there once again but the note icon was still nowhere to be seen.

From my experience, L8 treats the highlighting and note as separate entities when creating them, but as a single entity when attempting to remove just the highlighting.  Do I need to follow a different process when creating the note and highlight, in order to be able to remove the highlighting without removing the note icon?  I realize now that the actual note still exists even though the note icon disappears, but that's kind of like having a footnote at the end of a chapter or book without any indicator in the text that there is a footnote.  Basically, it becomes a note I'll never see.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 9:42 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
I reselected the highlighted text and did a CTRL+Shift+K.  The note icon disappeared along with the highlighting.

This step erases "annotations" which includes both highlights and notes that are within the selected text.

So this is expected behaviour.

Rick Ausdahl:
I realize now that the actual note still exists even though the note icon disappears, but that's kind of like having a footnote at the end of a chapter or book without any indicator in the text that there is a footnote

Actually it doesn't exist assuming it was completely within the text you selected prior to Ctrl-Shift-K

Rick Ausdahl:
Do I need to follow a different process when creating the note and highlight, in order to be able to remove the highlighting without removing the note icon?

No - but you need to use a different process to remove the highlighting. You need to do this from within the Note Tool itself.

So select the highlight and then "Delete this note" (and I appreciate its a "highlight", not a "note" - but it is an entity within the Notes Tool!)

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 11:37 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
I thought that with Logos 8 and the new notes system, highlights and notes were finally supposed to be independent of one another.  Am I mistaken about that?

Graham Criddle:
They are seen as different things - and the Notes Tool allows you to filter by either Notes or Highlights

Graham Criddle:
I appreciate its a "highlight", not a "note" - but it is an entity within the Notes Tool!

I did not beta test the notes and have not kept up with what has been publicized. It doesn't seem to me that there is any change in this regard. It is in essence the same as before, albeit with much better filtering features.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 1:44 PM

Rick Ausdahl:
From my experience, L8 treats the highlighting and note as separate entities when creating them, but as a single entity when attempting to remove just the highlighting.  Do I need to follow a different process when creating the note and highlight, in order to be able to remove the highlighting without removing the note icon?

Because it is part of the Highlighting tool, it is easy to think that "erase" affects only highlights. Another danger is making a partial selection, as you end up with a truncated, or split, note/highlight.

The safest way is to make changes within the Notes tool.  Filter by Bible Book, so you can see what has been applied to the passage, and then make your changes e.g. change the style, delete the note or delete the highlight.

Dave
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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 3:02 PM

Graham Criddle:

Rick Ausdahl:
I realize now that the actual note still exists even though the note icon disappears, but that's kind of like having a footnote at the end of a chapter or book without any indicator in the text that there is a footnote

Actually it doesn't exist assuming it was completely within the text you selected prior to Ctrl-Shift-K

Graham, I think that's the part that confuses me.  I.e.  The actual note "does" in fact still exist within the notes tool "after" doing the Ctrl+Shift+K which removed both the highlighting and the note icon from the text.  Per my second post, that's how I recovered the note after applying the new highlighting style.  I.e. I opened the notes tool, found the note that had been tied to the note icon that disappeared from the text after doing the Ctrl+Shift+K to erase the original highlight style, then I used the "Add anchor" option to reattach the note to the text where it was prior to erasing the old highlighting.  The CTRL+Shift+K removes the note icon from the resource text, but leaves the note in the notes tool/database.

I'm afraid I've done a poor job either in explaining the scenario or in understanding some of the replies--in fact maybe in both. Sorry about that. Embarrassed

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 3:21 PM

Dave, Graham, and JT ...thank you all for your efforts to get me on track.  I know that can be a significant challenge.  Wink

While in the process of reviewing some prior studies, I decided to change a lot of my highlights from a fairly simple underlining approach to a more complicated multi-color approach.  As a result, I've been using CTRL+Shift+K a lot to erase the old highlighting styles and replace them via short-cut keys with a variety of new styles.  But it's not a situation where I can just replace all OLD style A with NEW style B.  There's not a one-to-one correspondence as one of the old styles might be any one of four new styles.  So to my knowledge, I have to do them one at a time.

Fortunately, I do a lot more highlighting than note taking so in most cases the CTRL+Shift+K process is fairly painless.  I just hadn't figured out a clean, quick way to remove the old highlight without removing the note icon when there is one.  And that has meant going into the notes tool, finding the appropriate note and re-anchoring it to the desired text in order to get the note icon back within the text.  A bit of a hassle.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2019 11:35 PM

Hi Rick

Rick Ausdahl:

The actual note "does" in fact still exist within the notes tool "after" doing the Ctrl+Shift+K which removed both the highlighting and the note icon from the text.  Per my second post, that's how I recovered the note after applying the new highlighting style.  I.e. I opened the notes tool, found the note that had been tied to the note icon that disappeared from the text after doing the Ctrl+Shift+K to erase the original highlight style, then I used the "Add anchor" option to reattach the note to the text where it was prior to erasing the old highlighting.  The CTRL+Shift+K removes the note icon from the resource text, but leaves the note in the notes tool/database.

I see what you mean.

Apologies - that didn't seem to happen for me when I tested it yesterday but I've just tested it again and get the same results as you. I don't know if that is intended behaviour or not.

In these scenarios - as Dave suggests above - it looks like there is no alternative to doing this within the Notes Tool and controlling things there.

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2019 9:03 AM

Thanks again everyone for the feedback.

I can deal with the inconvenience of the process if that's as good as it gets.  I just didn't want to repeatedly deal with it that way only to find out later there was a way to avoid it.  Wink

But I sure wish Faithlife would treat highlights and notes as the separate functional entities they really are and allow us to alter one without unwanted affects on the other.  I thought that was finally going to be the case with the new notes tool.  Sadly, not so.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2019 9:16 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
But I sure wish Faithlife would treat highlights and notes as the separate functional entities they really are and allow us to alter one without unwanted affects on the other.  I thought that was finally going to be the case with the new notes tool.  Sadly, not so.

And I know this doesn't answer your question but I found this context interesting!

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2019 7:08 PM

Graham Criddle:

Rick Ausdahl:
But I sure wish Faithlife would treat highlights and notes as the separate functional entities they really are and allow us to alter one without unwanted affects on the other.  I thought that was finally going to be the case with the new notes tool.  Sadly, not so.

And I know this doesn't answer your question but I found this context interesting!

Wow!  2011!  Very interesting.

Compared to some, my highlighting and notes needs are very basic.  For those with more sophisticated needs, I'm very happy for them if Faithlife can provide highlighting and note options to meet those sophisticated needs.  But why must that deny me the option of deleting a highlight from a text without deleting a note icon related to that same text?  From my perspective as a user, they were created as separate entities, for different purposes, and very possibly at different times--perhaps days, weeks, or even years apart.

I made a highlight in the text and I initiated a note from within the text which in turn placed a note icon within the text.  For me the highlight and note are two very different things and serve two very different purposes.  I was allowed to create them independently of one another.  Why am I not allowed to modify and/or delete the highlighting from within the text without that action removing the note icon from the text?  Why do the highlight and note cease to be independent of one another?

Those last questions are rhetorical.  I'm not really looking for answers.  I don't think there are valid answers.  Sad

Just the same, I'm very thankful for Faithlife AND Logos AND the wonderful forum members who are so helpful and generous with their time.  I consider Logos one of the best investments I've ever made and forum members some of the kindest and most helpful people I know.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2019 10:27 PM

Rick, I know you don't there are any valid answers, so let me try with an invalid one. 😉

Rick Ausdahl:
  Why am I not allowed to modify and/or delete the highlighting from within the text without that action removing the note icon from the text?  Why do the highlight and note cease to be independent of one another?

You can modify delete highlighting without affecting the note icon, and if you have two separate annotations, they are independent of one another. I think you're simply misunderstanding the use of Cmd/Ctrl+Shift+K. In the screenshot below, I have one (1) highlight and one note. I selected all three lines and used a hotkey to assign the green highlighter. I then selected then ends of the lines and used Cmd+Shift+K to remove the highlight from those parts. This automatically created 3 anchors for my highlight in place of the original 1 (pretty sweet!). I then added a note to the third line (I changed the annotation style in the note to a blue underline so that you can see the extent of the text this is affecting). Now...

If I were to select "afraid of many thousands of people" and use Cmd+Shift+K, I would effectively change the anchor for BOTH annotations. I could, in fact, select everything after that "I" and do the same. However, if I selected the entire third line and used Cmd+Shift+K, I would be removing the entire anchor from the note. At that point, if the note had content, it would become a standalone (unanchored) note, and if was entirely empty it would get deleted. Hopefully, this clarifies why your note icon is disappearing. 

If I understood what you're wanting to do, I would recommend using "remove annotation" (from the context menu) instead. When using this, you need to be sure not to select a location that intersects with any annotation you don't wish to remove. You could right click anywhere on "I lay down" or "I woke again," and the entire highlight would be deleted. If, however, you right clicked on "afraid" and chose "remove annotations", BOTH annotations would be removed in their entirety!

Hopefully, that wasn't too dense!

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Wayne levi Price | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2019 5:03 PM

We should be able to Change the Highlight Style without having to Delete the anchors and notes in the passage. 

This is a major problem. It is a relief that the NOTE will not be lost out of the Notebook is it has Data in it. That is what was really scaring me. 

So I see not that only the notes that are empty are the ones that are deleted from the notebook. - Even if the annotation is removed from the Passage, as long as there is something in it, then it will remain in the notebook.

Thank GOD for that.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2019 11:55 PM

Wayne levi Price:
We should be able to Change the Highlight Style without having to Delete the anchors and notes in the passage. 

We can. Are you having a problem doing so?

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