SUGGESTION: Lookup passage as first/default command box option

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Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019 1:48 PM

Currently typing a Bible reference in the command box and hitting enter will result in the command Open passages study layout to <reference>. It would be better if it opened one's preferred Bible to the reference instead. 

Rationale: one will more commonly want to quickly lookup a passage than to open a Bible study layout. 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 6 2019 8:25 PM

Francis:
Currently typing a Bible reference in the command box and hitting enter will result in the command Open passages study layout to <reference>. It would be better if it opened one's preferred Bible to the reference instead. 

In version 8.1 you have the choice to do that i.e. the Lookup option

Dave
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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 10:27 AM

Dave Hooton:

Francis:
Currently typing a Bible reference in the command box and hitting enter will result in the command Open passages study layout to <reference>. It would be better if it opened one's preferred Bible to the reference instead. 

In version 8.1 you have the choice to do that i.e. the Lookup option

I think Francis' point is for that to be the default option, so that when you hit enter it goes to the passage in your preferred bible instead of opening a layout. So Look Up would need to be at the top of the list of options you posted in your screen shot.

I second this suggestion. But I know that Logos has collapsed the Command Box and the Go Box into one thing for Logos 8, and they need a quick way to open a layout. But it is annoying to have to take additional steps or type additional syntax just to do something as simple as open a verse in your preferred bible.

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MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 12:17 PM

Francis:
Currently typing a Bible reference in the command box and hitting enter will result in the command Open passages study layout to <reference>. It would be better if it opened one's preferred Bible to the reference instead.

I agree that the default enter key action should be to go to reference in preferred Bible. 

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 7 2019 1:12 PM

If I remember correctly, FL just changed the default option to opening the guide from opening the passage alone in response to requests on these forums.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 8 2019 5:11 AM

SineNomine:
If I remember correctly, FL just changed the default option to opening the guide from opening the passage alone in response to requests on these forums.

I don't remember / can't find those discussions - but I could have missed them.

But, for me, having the default action of opening just the Bible is much better. I've just run across it again now and would really like this default to be restored.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 9 2019 2:49 PM

For L7 Homepage users, the default GO Box action was a  layout with PG.

For L7 Command Box users, the default action was opening in preferred bible.

For L8, the combined GO/Command Box had to make one of these the default. I don't remember if it was different in 8.0, but it makes sense to cater for L7 homepage users when the preferred bible is usually open in one's layout.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 12 2019 12:58 AM

Graham Criddle:
But, for me, having the default action of opening just the Bible is much better. I've just run across it again now and would really like this default to be restored.

In 8.2 beta 3, the default action now seems to be opening the preferred Bible

Are others seeing this as well?

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 12 2019 1:28 AM

I don't run betas.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 12 2019 1:33 AM

Francis:

I don't run betas.

Actually you are quite wise in this respect Francis. There are some that run the Beta expecting the same reliability as the Stable edition and are then occasionally caught out.

For me a major hitch in a Beta is an inconvenience because I have to move my work to the Laptop where I keep a Stable version running but for some misguided folk without a second installation it can be a heart stopper.

Now however you have something to look forward to as the Beta iterations work their way to a stable release.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 12 2019 2:08 AM

Dave Hooton:

For L7 Homepage users, the default GO Box action was a  layout with PG.

For L7 Command Box users, the default action was opening in preferred bible.

True

Dave Hooton:
I don't remember if it was different in 8.0, but it makes sense to cater for L7 homepage users when the preferred bible is usually open in one's layout.

Agree

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 13 2019 9:49 PM

Graham Criddle:
In 8.2 beta 3, the default action now seems to be opening the preferred Bible

And now it seems to have reverted back to opening the layout - with no update to the software.

I am confused!

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 4:05 PM

Dave Hooton:
t it makes sense to cater for L7 homepage users when the preferred bible is usually open in one's layout.

This sums up our reasoning, but it applies to new users as well. We don't want to make loading a passage study layout too hard to discover (as is presently the case for the topic study layout; working on that).

Graham Criddle:

And now it seems to have reverted back to opening the layout - with no update to the software.

I am confused!

Sorry about the confusion, Graham. What you are seeing is likely due to a long-standing feature of the Command box: it remembers your preference for the string you type. 

For example, if you type "ESV" it might suggest:
  Open English Standard Version
  Open ESV Study Bible
  
Open The Lexham High Definition New Testament: ESV Edition

It makes a guess at the best match for your intention; but if you select the second or third option on the list, it will remember that, and offer it as the the first choice next time you enter "ESV." 

Likewise, if you type "Jn 14:6" and select "Look up," it will remember that next time you enter "Jn 14:6" -- but only for that reference. "Layout" will still be the default for any other reference for which you didn't explicitly select a different option. If that's confusing and/or unhelpful, we can explore either never changing the suggestion order for Bible references, or changing the preferred order for all references based on your last selection.

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 18 2019 12:04 AM

Hi Adam

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Sorry about the confusion, Graham. What you are seeing is likely due to a long-standing feature of the Command box: it remembers your preference for the string you type. 

For example, if you type "ESV" it might suggest:
  Open English Standard Version
  Open ESV Study Bible
  
Open The Lexham High Definition New Testament: ESV Edition

It makes a guess at the best match for your intention; but if you select the second or third option on the list, it will remember that, and offer it as the the first choice next time you enter "ESV." 

Thanks for the explanation - it makes sense of what I am seeing.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Likewise, if you type "Jn 14:6" and select "Look up," it will remember that next time you enter "Jn 14:6" -- but only for that reference. "Layout" will still be the default for any other reference for which you didn't explicitly select a different option. If that's confusing and/or unhelpful, we can explore either never changing the suggestion order for Bible references, or changing the preferred order for all references based on your last selection.

I'm afraid I do find this behaviour confusing.

Yesterday - for example - I was thinking about two upcoming sermons, one based on 1 John 1 and the other based on 1 John 4. It would be much easier for me if typing either reference in the command box always provided the same option in the command box so I knew I could either just press Enter or navigate the dropdown to select another option.

Of the options you suggest I would favour never changing the suggestion order for Bible references - then we would know what to expect.

Thanks, Graham

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 18 2019 1:00 AM

Graham Criddle:
Of the options you suggest I would favour never changing the suggestion order for Bible references - then we would know what to expect.

I suspect that for different tasks different options are best. I generally prefer the way it works now as it is usually in the order I want for the task at hand.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 18 2019 1:54 AM

MJ. Smith:

I suspect that for different tasks different options are best. I generally prefer the way it works now as it is usually in the order I want for the task at hand.

And I suspect that for any kind of configuration there will some that find it useful for specific purposes, however, what should always be preferred is what makes the most sense for most. I doubt that your needs are those of the majority of users MJ and I am confident that were a survey to be done of all logos users, most would indeed prefer to have quick access to the Bible over more difficult access in favour of opening layouts. 

I don't have a problem with the idea of an adaptive reordering but the way they did it illustrates that it is difficult to make it work practically. It would be better if the software remembered what I use more often (open layout or open Bible) rather than be reference specific. I mean I look up all kinds of references. The fact that I opened Ezekiel 2:4 once in a Bible by no means should be interpreted that I have a preference to go to the Bible when it comes to this specific reference! That is a WEIRD idea imo!

Faithlife seeks to do well but often chooses the least intuitive ways of doing things. 

If the goal is to make layout access more easily accessible, it should be sufficient to have it listed as second in the drop-down list. Seriously: do you expect ANYBODY to open layouts more often that just the Bible? Do people want to open a bunch of windows whenever they want to look up a passage?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 19 2019 1:16 PM

Francis:
It would be better if the software remembered what I use more often (open layout or open Bible) rather than be reference specific.

I agree.

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 12:12 PM

Another reason why I don't like the current way of working.

I had a layout open earlier today while preparing a sermon and wanted to open a Bible to a particular reference.

So I typed the reference into the Command Box and - without thinking too much about it - pressed Enter.

This opened the Passage Study Layout completely removing all the tiles I already had open.

I know this was user error but it just doesn't seem right!!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 2:34 PM

Graham Criddle:
I know this was user error but it just doesn't seem right!!

An adaptive approach should see the bible open as the default once you get it rightBig Smile

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 2:38 PM

Indeed it would!!

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