Speeding up Logos

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This post has 49 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 257
Kevin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 1:06 PM

Scott David:

I'm trying to decide between the following 4 options:
1) Increase my RAM
2) Use sideloaded prefetch with the fastest SD 32GB card I can find
3) Use sideloaded SD and move all Logos' resources from HDD to SD
4) Get a SSD to replace my HDD

1 wont make little if any difference, 8GB is sufficient for Windows + Office + Browser + Logos running at the same time.

2 and 3 will very likely be slower, but ymmv, depends on sd card controller and your usage. You could try this with a small capacity card for limited resources.

4 will bring good performance gains.

You could remove then caddy your current HDD and use it via usb, or if your laptop has a cdrom, you can get a caddy to put the SSD in there that slot instead of the cdrom.

Posts 82
Lane McKay | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 1:10 PM

Hello,

I took the plunge this year and installed a Western Digital  WD Blue SSD 500GB.

When I start my computer up first thing, it takes about a minute and a half to come up. But, if I close 

Logos and restart, it loads in about 15 seconds.

To do the searches as Dave mentioned earlier, about 5 seconds to bring up Trinity in the Old

Testament.

I'm very happy with the results.

Windows 10 Desktop HP Pavilion 570 AMD A12-9800 8GB memory.

Lane

Posts 25045
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 1:25 PM

Scott David:

I'm trying to decide between the following 4 options:
1) Increase my RAM
2) Use sideloaded prefetch with the fastest SD 32GB card I can find
3) Use sideloaded SD and move all Logos' resources from HDD to SD
4) Get a SSD to replace my HDD

I believe that each option is better (1 being the worst, 4 being the best) -- BUT, I really don't want to change out my HDD unless I absolutely must. So I'm leaning toward option 3.

Do not consider options 2 and 3 as they will not benefit performance. Load speed (in Windows) is improved by the command Set Use Ngen to Yes (which requires a restart, and is then permanently enabled). SD cards are not recommended/supported by Faithlife, and could be slower than your 7200 RPM HDD.

Option 4 is the best by far (and I use one with 8 GB DDR4 memory).

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 8060
LogosEmployee

Scott David:

1) Increase my RAM
2) Use sideloaded prefetch with the fastest SD 32GB card I can find
3) Use sideloaded SD and move all Logos' resources from HDD to SD
4) Get a SSD to replace my HDD

(4) is the best option for improving Logos' overall performance.

We don't support (and strongly recommend against) options (2) and (3); our experience shows that users report a much higher rate of crashes and instability when running Logos from a SD card.

(1) would help improve indexing and searching speeds once you've upgraded from a HDD to SSD.

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 6:04 PM

Kevin:

2 and 3 will very likely be slower, but ymmv, depends on sd card controller and your usage. You could try this with a small capacity card for limited resources.

Thanks so much Kevin. I have USB 3.0 (wish I had 3.1) -- and was thinking of the newer SSD ThumbDrives... unfortunately, they're all 3.1 so it's uncertain what the actual Access Time and Read Rate will really be on my computer... but on the 3.1 machines, they're seeing over 4MBps read times consistently. Really tough to know what I'll get though... I'm sure it'll be faster than my 7200rpm SATA (80-160MBps)... but may not be noticeably different. Any thoughts on this theory (plugging a SSD into usb 3.0 and going with option 3) ??

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 6:06 PM

Lane McKay:
 I took the plunge this year and installed a Western Digital  WD Blue SSD 500GB... Windows 10 Desktop HP Pavilion 570 AMD A12-9800 8GB memory. 

Sad Uggghhh.... Thanks so much Lane... this is my fear... I'm going to be cloning my entire drive and going to SSD. Surprise

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 6:11 PM

Dave Hooton:

Do not consider options 2 and 3 as they will not benefit performance. Load speed (in Windows) is improved by the command Set Use Ngen to Yes (which requires a restart, and is then permanently enabled). SD cards are not recommended/supported by Faithlife, and could be slower than your 7200 RPM HDD. Option 4 is the best by far (and I use one with 8 GB DDR4 memory).

Hey Dave. Thanks for your input! I was going to use Symbolic Linking (redirect the entire Logos Roaming Direcotry)... you think that might slow the processes down?

I did the Use Ngen... it did help -- maybe about a 25% increase. Perhaps it's telling Logos to commit more resources to RAM instead of Hot Swapping with the HDD?? Will enabling this option perhaps make Logos faster over time (will it observe and learn)... or is it pretty much one and done?

I should have been a little clearer in my original post... I'd never use a standard SD or Thumbdrive for something that has regular Read/Write... I would do SSD (most likely a Solid State Thumbdrive). 

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 6:14 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

(4) is the best option for improving Logos' overall performance.

We don't support (and strongly recommend against) options (2) and (3); our experience shows that users report a much higher rate of crashes and instability when running Logos from a SD card.

(1) would help improve indexing and searching speeds once you've upgraded from a HDD to SSD.

Thanks so much Bradley... I misspoke about the SD; I would use it for prefetch... but not for storage of heavy read / write... for option 3), I was thinking of a Solid State Thumbdrive. Does this affect your opinion at all?

Posts 8060
LogosEmployee

Scott David:
for option 3), I was thinking of a Solid State Thumbdrive. Does this affect your opinion at all?

We don't support any external drives as storage locations for Logos files: https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007506971-Logos-Minimum-System-Requirements

Posts 25045
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 10:14 PM

Scott David:
I did the Use Ngen... it did help -- maybe about a 25% increase. Perhaps it's telling Logos to commit more resources to RAM instead of Hot Swapping with the HDD?? Will enabling this option perhaps make Logos faster over time (will it observe and learn)... or is it pretty much one and done?

From MS "The Native Image Generator (Ngen.exe) is a tool that improves the performance of managed applications. Ngen.exe creates native images, which are files containing compiled processor-specific machine code, and installs them into the native image cache on the local computer. The runtime can use native images from the cache instead of using the just-in-time (JIT) compiler to compile the original assembly."

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 493
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 10:30 PM

Scott David:

Ian Kirk:

set use ngen to yes

Wow... this really gave Logos a boost -- thanks for this great tip!

I find it strange only two have mentioned this and not a comeback on it. My question is, what does this setting do and if it actually speeds things up, why? 

ASUS Rogue / 500 GB Samsung SSD / 500 GB HD / 16 Gigs of RAM/ Logos 8 Full Feature Set / Faithlife Connect Essentials 

Posts 22006
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 10:49 PM

There is a discussion of this at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/147283.aspx?PageIndex=1 (this was before the command box command was introduced)

Posts 493
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 10:59 PM

Thanks Graham. I totally missed that thread & obviously there's a lot of reading. Just a quick question: Do I understand correctly that the line "set use ngen to yes" has to be inserted each time there is an update to Logos or has that changed since back then?

ASUS Rogue / 500 GB Samsung SSD / 500 GB HD / 16 Gigs of RAM/ Logos 8 Full Feature Set / Faithlife Connect Essentials 

Posts 22006
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 11:29 PM

Bootjack:

Thanks Graham. I totally missed that thread & obviously there's a lot of reading. Just a quick question: Do I understand correctly that the line "set use ngen to yes" has to be inserted each time there is an update to Logos or has that changed since back then?

No - you don’t need to enter the command after each update. But you will be prompted if you still want it to be applied.

Posts 493
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 4:51 AM

Good! Thank you Graham! 

ASUS Rogue / 500 GB Samsung SSD / 500 GB HD / 16 Gigs of RAM/ Logos 8 Full Feature Set / Faithlife Connect Essentials 

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 6:11 AM

Taht

Dave Hooton:

Scott David:
I did the Use Ngen... it did help -- maybe about a 25% increase. Perhaps it's telling Logos to commit more resources to RAM instead of Hot Swapping with the HDD?? Will enabling this option perhaps make Logos faster over time (will it observe and learn)... or is it pretty much one and done?

From MS "The Native Image Generator (Ngen.exe) is a tool that improves the performance of managed applications. Ngen.exe creates native images, which are files containing compiled processor-specific machine code, and installs them into the native image cache on the local computer. The runtime can use native images from the cache instead of using the just-in-time (JIT) compiler to compile the original assembly."

Very interesting and valuable... thanks for this!

Posts 84
Scott David | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 3:28 PM

Well I've got some final news to report; thank you to everyone who contributed. I've got some pretty surprising results to share...

A) This gave me a noticeable increase in speed: I took Dave's advice above and did the following command: Set Use Ngen to Yes

B) I discovered that my Webster Merriam Dictionary, when left as an open resource, slowed things down noticeably. Closing that helped.

C) This is the shocker -- ReadyBoost gave me a massive increase in speed with Logos... [The following comments are useless for those who have SSD Solid State Drives - but for the rest of us...]

 

Yes, believe it or not -- I decided to give option 2 a shot (use sideloaded ReadyBoost prefetch with fast 32GB flash memory). And the difference is INCREDIBLE. I'm shocked. A few things about doing this:

1) READY BOOST IS PERFECT FOR LOGOS - I read a bunch of techy 'white papers' -- and all of them said the same thing: ReadyBoost works best when you are dealing with large programs that utilize large files (like Adobe PhotoShop). Obviously, Logos fits right into this category. So I decided to give ReadyBoost a try.

2) THUMBDRIVE MUST MATCH YOUR RAM - The needed USB Flash memory for ReadyBoost depends upon your PC's RAM size -- to ascertain the best drive for your RAM, do a google search. I have 8GB of RAM, that equated to a 32GB card (according to the pros). This was proved true, as I enabled ReadyBoost, Windows recommended reserving 30488MB for ReadyBoost; my 32GB card had 30583MB available -- so it's an almost perfect match.

3) DEDICATE THE ENTIRE FLASH DRIVE - Since I got the exact right Flash for my RAM size, I could dedicate the entire USB Thumbdrive to ReadyBoost ("Dedicate this Device to ReadyBoost") instead of "Use this Device: Space to Reserve..."

4) FORMAT THE THUMBDRIVE BEFORE ENABLING READYBOOST - When you format Flash Memory you can choose i) FAT32 [worst choice in every way - especially considering ReadyBoost will be maxed at 4GB]  ii)NTFS  iii)exFAT. DEFINITELY choose exFAT - it is designed to handle large chunks and is specifically designed for Flash Memory. The tech articles I read said to choose "DEFAULT" for the Allocation Unit Size; that's what I did.

I picked up a 32GB 200MBps Thumbdrive on Amazon for $9 -- it only sticks out of my notebook about .25 inches. And now my Logos is faster than it's ever been.

Thanks, and blessings.

Posts 298
Michael Parry-Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 3:41 PM

Hi everybody

Just in case you didn't see this 

I have noticed on my system how the speed is dramatically increased on searching

 

one of the things I have done in the past is not let my Windows operating system indexing any of my drives

 

I do not search a lot on my hard drives as I have my filesystem organised

 

maybe something you could try to see if it one helps increase indexing speed for logos

 

if your system is indexing and also you have logos indexing then your system is going to be very slow

 

so I have my windows operating system not indexing

 

 

 

Does indexing slow down computer? But slower PCs that use indexing can see a performance hit, and you can give them a speed boost by turning off indexing. Even if you have an SSD disk, turning off indexing can improve your speed, because the constant writing to disk that indexing does can eventually slow down SSDs.

Mick
Posts 493
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 3:42 PM

Ok Scott, thanks for that. But does not the "set use ngen to yes" do the same trick for Logos? 

ASUS Rogue / 500 GB Samsung SSD / 500 GB HD / 16 Gigs of RAM/ Logos 8 Full Feature Set / Faithlife Connect Essentials 

Posts 257
Kevin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 23 2019 12:46 AM

Scott David:

Well I've got some final news to report; thank you to everyone who contributed. I've got some pretty surprising results to share...

A) This gave me a noticeable increase in speed: I took Dave's advice above and did the following command: Set Use Ngen to Yes

B) I discovered that my Webster Merriam Dictionary, when left as an open resource, slowed things down noticeably. Closing that helped.

C) This is the shocker -- ReadyBoost gave me a massive increase in speed with Logos... [The following comments are useless for those who have SSD Solid State Drives - but for the rest of us...]

 

Yes, believe it or not -- I decided to give option 2 a shot (use sideloaded ReadyBoost prefetch with fast 32GB flash memory). And the difference is INCREDIBLE. I'm shocked. A few things about doing this:

1) READY BOOST IS PERFECT FOR LOGOS - I read a bunch of techy 'white papers' -- and all of them said the same thing: ReadyBoost works best when you are dealing with large programs that utilize large files (like Adobe PhotoShop). Obviously, Logos fits right into this category. So I decided to give ReadyBoost a try.

2) THUMBDRIVE MUST MATCH YOUR RAM - The needed USB Flash memory for ReadyBoost depends upon your PC's RAM size -- to ascertain the best drive for your RAM, do a google search. I have 8GB of RAM, that equated to a 32GB card (according to the pros). This was proved true, as I enabled ReadyBoost, Windows recommended reserving 30488MB for ReadyBoost; my 32GB card had 30583MB available -- so it's an almost perfect match.

3) DEDICATE THE ENTIRE FLASH DRIVE - Since I got the exact right Flash for my RAM size, I could dedicate the entire USB Thumbdrive to ReadyBoost ("Dedicate this Device to ReadyBoost") instead of "Use this Device: Space to Reserve..."

4) FORMAT THE THUMBDRIVE BEFORE ENABLING READYBOOST - When you format Flash Memory you can choose i) FAT32 [worst choice in every way - especially considering ReadyBoost will be maxed at 4GB]  ii)NTFS  iii)exFAT. DEFINITELY choose exFAT - it is designed to handle large chunks and is specifically designed for Flash Memory. The tech articles I read said to choose "DEFAULT" for the Allocation Unit Size; that's what I did.

I picked up a 32GB 200MBps Thumbdrive on Amazon for $9 -- it only sticks out of my notebook about .25 inches. And now my Logos is faster than it's ever been.

Thanks, and blessings.

Scott David this is really good news! Really glad you tried it :) No doubt will help others who are using a HDD.

Bookmarked for reference.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

(1) would help improve indexing and searching speeds once you've upgraded from a HDD to SSD.

Bradley if you are still monitoring, I am interested in your suggestion about RAM. Try as I like, I cannot get Logos to use more than at most 2GB of RAM even with a full text everthing search (4000 ish resources + 2000 not downloaded). I have 10 ish active panes, plus 20 not on display but in tabs, mostly all linked.

This is on Windows. I am at 50% utilisation of RAM. Am I missing out on some memory caching or something? Maybe Windows bug/missing feature?

How much RAM is everyone else using on their systems for Logos?

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