come and die

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 16 2019 1:05 PM

I am looking for the quote by Bonhoeffer, "When Jesus calls a man, he bids him come and die."  I have several Bonhoeffer books, but can't find it. Does anyone know what book it is in?

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Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2019 1:17 PM

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/dietrich-bonhoeffer-was-hanged-today

According to John Piper it's (The Cost of Discipleship, 99) .

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Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2019 1:19 PM

Josh Hunt:

I am looking for the quote by Bonhoeffer, "When Jesus calls a man, he bids him come and die."  I have several Bonhoeffer books, but can't find it. Does anyone know what book it is in?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2019 1:27 PM

Josh Hunt:

I am looking for the quote by Bonhoeffer, "When Jesus calls a man, he bids him come and die."  I have several Bonhoeffer books, but can't find it. Does anyone know what book it is in?

This is the location: https://ref.ly/logosres/dbw04?ref=DBW.DBW+4%3a81&off=404 (see Fn 11)

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2019 1:33 PM

NB.Mick:

Josh Hunt:

I am looking for the quote by Bonhoeffer, "When Jesus calls a man, he bids him come and die."  I have several Bonhoeffer books, but can't find it. Does anyone know what book it is in?

This is the location: https://ref.ly/logosres/dbw04?ref=DBW.DBW+4%3a81&off=404 (see Fn 11)

Interesting, that location has 

In the earlier English version of The Cost of Discipleship, Fuller translated this famous aphorism as: “When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.” The austere German text reads: “Jeder Ruf Christi führt in den Tod.” Literally, that says, “Every call of Christ leads into death.” [JG/GK]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Discipleship, ed. Martin Kuske et al., trans. Barbara Green and Reinhard Krauss, vol. 4, Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2003).

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 3:52 AM

 I’m going to do a sermon on first Samuel chapter 3 where God calls Samuel — and interestingly enough the first quote that appears there is the one you just mentioned.  I’ll be using the Holman’s old testament commentary outline for my sermon 👍😁👌

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Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 6:02 AM

Ah ... the problems of translation

It's not like this is unknown to us having to exegete from the Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek texts!

Shalom

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 6:11 AM

Ans since the German edition of Kyle Idleman's "Not a Fan" includes a literal re-translation of the "extended" English quote back into German, you now find that new German version of the quote (which Bonhoeffer never wrote) all over the place.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=%22Wenn+Christus+einen+Menschen+ruft,+dann+fordert+er+ihn+auf,+zu+kommen+und+zu+sterben%22&ie=&oe=

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 6:39 AM

Back to the Logos issue. If I were to buy the whole Bonhoeffer set, would I find this quote (in the regular text; not a footnote).

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 6:49 AM

Jan Krohn:
Ans since the German edition of Kyle Idleman's "Not a Fan" includes a literal re-translation of the "extended" English quote back into German, you now find that new German version of the quote (which Bonhoeffer never wrote) all over the place.

Do you suggest a better English translation of the original Bonhoeffer German?

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 7:23 AM

JT (alabama24):
Do you suggest a better English translation of the original Bonhoeffer German?

As already quoted:

The austere German text reads: “Jeder Ruf Christi führt in den Tod.” Literally, that says, “Every call of Christ leads into death.” [JG/GK]

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 8:39 AM

Regardless of literal or paraphrased translation, what is the point exactly? The only death today would be death to self, the world and spiritual related stuff. If Christ literally called us to face literal death, then nobody would be coming to him. It kind of doesn’t make sense if you think about it.  I wonder what exactly was going through his mind when he wrote that.  Seeing the quote on the Holman OT Commentary; especially as it relates to Samuel, it actually is an out of place and senseless quote. You can force it to fit the story, but realistically, it doesn’t fit.  Maybe is one of those deals where you quote a senseless quote just because Bonhoefer said it and it sounded kind of cool 😎 Go figure.  Personally, I wouldn’t quote it unless it’s applied to death to self (Galatians 2:20 and other related verses).

DAL

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 8:43 AM

Jan Krohn:

JT (alabama24):
Do you suggest a better English translation of the original Bonhoeffer German?

As already quoted:

The austere German text reads: “Jeder Ruf Christi führt in den Tod.” Literally, that says, “Every call of Christ leads into death.” [JG/GK]

The literal text sounds even worse! “Every call...” really? How about leads to joy, peace, assurance, etc. Nobody wants to die or live a miserable life thinking that just because Christ called them they will be lead to death 💀 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 8:58 AM

Josh Hunt:

Back to the Logos issue. If I were to buy the whole Bonhoeffer set, would I find this quote (in the regular text; not a footnote).

No, since the translation in DBW is slightly different. You would need to have the older translation, titled "The cost of discipleship" to see the quote in the regular text.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 9:01 AM

DAL:

Jan Krohn:

JT (alabama24):
Do you suggest a better English translation of the original Bonhoeffer German?

As already quoted:

The austere German text reads: “Jeder Ruf Christi führt in den Tod.” Literally, that says, “Every call of Christ leads into death.” [JG/GK]

The literal text sounds even worse! “Every call...” really? How about leads to joy, peace, assurance, etc. Nobody wants to die or live a miserable life thinking that just because Christ called them they will be lead to death

Context....

It is laid on every Christian. The first Christ-suffering that everyone has to experience is the call which summons us away from our attachments to this world. It is the death of the old self in the encounter with Jesus Christ. Those who enter into discipleship enter into Jesus’ death. They turn their living into dying; such has been the case from the very beginning. The cross is not the terrible end of a pious, happy life. Instead, it stands at the beginning of community with Jesus Christ. Whenever Christ calls us, his call leads us to death.[11] Whether we, like the first disciples, must leave house and vocation to follow him, or whether, with Luther, we leave the monastery for a secular vocation, in both cases the same death awaits us, namely, death in Jesus Christ, the death of our old self caused by the call of Jesus. Because Jesus’ call brings death to the rich young man, who can only follow Jesus after his own will has died, because Jesus’ every command calls us to die with all our wishes and desires, and because we cannot want our own death, therefore Jesus Christ in his word has to be our death and our life. The call to follow Jesus, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, is death and life.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Discipleship, ed. Martin Kuske et al., trans. Barbara Green and Reinhard Krauss, vol. 4, Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2003), 87–88.

(bold markup by me and I took out a footnote not relevant here. FN 11 is the one discussed earlier)

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 11:26 AM

Thanks NB Mick!

Context did make a difference! In the 1 Samuel section from the HOTC it didn’t make sense, but the paragraph you presented, it fitted just fine (in line with what I had in mind).

Come to find out, I also have the book where the quote is found! Thanks again! 👍😁👌

DAL

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 4:30 PM

Indeed, context is everything. Not only the immediate literary context, but also the context of the society and milieu Bonhoeffer was writing in.

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Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2019 4:46 PM

Josh Hunt:

Back to the Logos issue. If I were to buy the whole Bonhoeffer set, would I find this quote (in the regular text; not a footnote).

Your exact quote is from the Reginald H. Fuller translation which was published in 1948. The Logos complete works of Bonhoeffer was translated in 2003 and reads "Whenever Christ calls us, his call leads us to death."

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Discipleship, ed. Martin Kuske et al., trans. Barbara Green and Reinhard Krauss, vol. 4, Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2003), 87.

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