When do we get Codex Vaticanus into Logos

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Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 20 2019 3:41 PM

When do we get Codex Vaticanus into Logos

We have Codex Sinaiticus in Logos. 
https://www.logos.com/product/35581/codex-sinaiticus 

“This transcription was made by a project funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC) whose policy is that all digital data produced by its research projects should be made freely available online. The transcription of New Testament books was developed from a transcription made in the Institut für neutestamentliche Textforschung, Münster, as part of the New Testament Transcripts project.”

When do we get Codex Vaticanus? [[or is it here but can not be found?]]

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2019 4:07 PM

David Ames:
When do we get Codex Vaticanus? [[or is it here but can not be found?]]

What would you suggest as a good electronic source - preferable free as the Sinaiticus version?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2019 7:43 AM

MJ. Smith:

David Ames:
When do we get Codex Vaticanus? [[or is it here but can not be found?]]

What would you suggest as a good electronic source - preferable free as the Sinaiticus version?

You make a suggestion and someone tells you if you want it done do it yourself. [[That is what MJ Smith has been doing for all the years that I have watched her on this forum. She does not always give us a fish but often shows us how to fish.  Thank for the years of fishing lessons!]]

Googled Codex Vaticanus B PDF and found

From http://www.truebiblecode.com/codexvaticanus.html 

Download the entire New Testament of the Codex Vaticanus B as a Word 2000 document in the bwgrkl.ttf font [[Looks Weird in any other font]]

Matthew 5:22 [from Logos versions]

BYZ εγω δε λεγω υμιν οτι πας ο οργιζομενος τω αδελφω αυτου εικη ενοχος εσται τη κρισει ος δ αν ειπη τω αδελφω αυτου ρακα ενοχος εσται τω συνεδριω ος δ αν ειπη μωρε ενοχος εσται εις την γεενναν του πυρος

TR1881 ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ ὀργιζόμενος τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ εἰκῆ ἔνοχος ἔσται τῇ κρίσει· ὃς δʼ ἂν εἴπῃ τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ, ̓ρακά, ἔνοχος ἔσται τῷ συνεδρίῳ· ὃς δʼ ἂν εἴπῃ, Μωρέ, ἔνοχος ἔσται εἰς τὴν γέενναν τοῦ πυρός.

SBLGNT ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ ὀργιζόμενος τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ ἔνοχος ἔσται τῇ κρίσει· ὃς δʼ ἂν εἴπῃ τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ· Ῥακά, ἔνοχος ἔσται τῷ συνεδρίῳ· ὃς δʼ ἂν εἴπῃ· Μωρέ, ἔνοχος ἔσται εἰς τὴν γέενναν τοῦ πυρός.

22 κρισει · ⸀ εγω δε λεγω ‾̷‾ ϋμιν οτι πᾶς ὁ ορ γιζομενος τω αδελφω ἁυτου ° ενοχος εστε τη κρισει · ος δ αν εί πη τω αδελφω ἁυτου ραχα ενο χος εσται τω συ νεδριω ˙ ὁς δʼ αν
International Greek New Testament Project (IGNTP). (2012). Codex Sinaiticus: Septuagint and New Testament (Mt 5:21–22). Cambridge, UK: The Codex Sinaiticus Project Board.

Mat 5:22 egw de legw umin oti paj o orgizomenoj tw adelfw autou enocoj estai th krisei oj d an eiph tw adelfw autou raka enocoj estai tw sunedriw oj d an eiph mwre enocoj estai eij thn geennan tou puroj   [[to read need to change to font BWGRKL available on site below.]] 

From http://www.truebiblecode.com/codexvaticanus.html 

[[Yes, it will / would take a lot of work to get it into Logos]]

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2019 2:37 PM

[[Yes, it will / would take a lot of work to get it into Logos]]

So I tried building a PBB using that font - 

[Info] Starting build for PBB:e8f8207fa3e04ab0b9e41634ac77804e
[Info] Converting C:\Users\User1\Documents\bible study\ZZ PBB\dummy.docx
[Error] Font 'Bwgrkl' is not a valid font for use in resources.
[Info] Discovering
[Info] Complete

PPB Does not accept font  'Bwgrkl'  [which is a Bible Works Greek Font]

However it shows the text in Greek on the screen apparently as I have that font on my computer but if I try to copy and paste the text else where it does not carry the Bwgrkl font with it.  [need to reset the font to Bwgrkl to read it] 

So the first step will need to be to copy the text to a pure text editor file and then convert that text to some standard Greek font. 

[[Am going to have to learn Python]]  [[the 'FUN' part is that that font seems to store accents as the next character rather than as a single character]]

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2019 3:18 PM

David Ames:
You make a suggestion and someone tells you if you want it done do it yourself.

The reason I asked was because the Sinaiticus had a free, very clean copy available to FL. If we could find a similarly "academic" free, electronic copy of Codx Vaticanus, the I suspect we could get it through FL quite quickly. I was hoping that you, or others, knew of such a source - or that you knew such a source was being made. Seems like we need to find a grant and get Rick Brannan interested in the project ...he'll be an uphill battle but ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2019 4:45 PM

MJ. Smith:

David Ames:
You make a suggestion and someone tells you if you want it done do it yourself.

The reason I asked was because the Sinaiticus had a free, very clean copy available to FL. 

Oh, I thought that you were giving me more 'fishing lessons'.

Not sure how good the one I found is but have found that it matches at least one spot that the NET notes list that C V and C S differ,

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 5:05 AM

David Ames:
 

[[the 'FUN' part is that that font seems to store accents as the next character rather than as a single character]]

The good news is that there do not seem to be any accents in the Greek text so the font conversion is a one to one swap of letter codes.

Posts 1597
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 6:41 AM

David Ames:
Mat 5:22 egw de legw umin oti paj o orgizomenoj tw adelfw autou enocoj estai th krisei oj d an eiph tw adelfw autou raka enocoj estai tw sunedriw oj d an eiph mwre enocoj estai eij thn geennan tou puroj   [[to read need to change to font BWGRKL available on site below.]] 

I know that a decade ago there were numerous transcode programs out there that would change into unicode. I don't have any experience, but https://greektranscoder.org/ looks like it would do the job and is kept up to date to work with modern software and computers.

It still would be a chore, but it does look manageable.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 1004
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 7:40 AM

MJ, this is dated, but might the Brooke McLean edition be a plausible source?  Of course, it's just the OT, so it only gets us half way there.

Posts 18

David Ames:

Googled Codex Vaticanus B PDF and found

From http://www.truebiblecode.com/codexvaticanus.html 

Download the entire New Testament of the Codex Vaticanus B as a Word 2000 document in the bwgrkl.ttf

Here is, attached, the Unicode version from the quoted document. I used the Latin "C" to indicate the final sigma.

There are no milestones, so it's not ready for the PBB. Anyone please feel free to pick up where I left.

Posts 188
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 2:30 PM

YesYesYes

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 22 2019 2:45 PM

Lucian Benigno:

Here is, attached, the Unicode version from the quoted document. I used the Latin "C" to indicate the final sigma.

There are no milestones, so it's not ready for the PBB. Anyone please feel free to pick up where I left.

[Info] Starting build for PBB:e8f8207fa3e04ab0b9e41634ac77804e
[Info] Converting
[Info] Converting C:\Users\User1\Documents\bible study\ZZ PBB\Codex Vaticanus 1209 B Bible.docx


Results:
1 ΒΙΒΛΟC ΓΕΝΕΣΕΩC ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ ΥΙΟΥ ΔΑΥΕΙΔ ΥΙΟΥ ΑΒΡΑΑΜ
2 ΑΒΡΑΑΜ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΣΑΑΚ ΙΣΑΑΚ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΑΚΩΒ ΙΑΚΩΒ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΟΥΔΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΥC ΑΔΕΛΦΟΥC ΑΥΤΟΥ
3 ΙΟΥΔΑC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΦΑΡΕC ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΖΑΡΕ ΕΚ ΤΗC ΘΑΜΑΡ ΦΑΡΕC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΕΣΡΩΜ ΕΣΡΩΜ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΑΡΑΜ
4 ΑΡΑΜ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΑΜΕΙΝΑΔΑΒ ΑΜΕΙΝΑΔΑΒ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΝΑΑΣΣΩΝ ΝΑΑΣΣΩΝ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΣΑΛΜΩΝ
5 ΣΑΛΜΩΝ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΒΟΕC ΕΚ ΤΗC ΡΑΧΑΒ ΒΟΕC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΩΒΗΔ ΕΚ ΤΗC ΡΟΥΘ ΙΩΒΗΔ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΕΣΣΑΙ
6 not yet entered

Input file: Sample
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:1]]1{{field-on:Bible}} ΒΙΒΛΟC ΓΕΝΕΣΕΩC ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ ΥΙΟΥ ΔΑΥΕΙΔ ΥΙΟΥ ΑΒΡΑΑΜ {{field-off:Bible}}
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:2]]2{{field-on:Bible}} ΑΒΡΑΑΜ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΣΑΑΚ ΙΣΑΑΚ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΑΚΩΒ ΙΑΚΩΒ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΟΥΔΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΥC ΑΔΕΛΦΟΥC ΑΥΤΟΥ {{field-off:Bible}}
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:3]]3{{field-on:Bible}} ΙΟΥΔΑC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΦΑΡΕC ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΖΑΡΕ ΕΚ ΤΗC ΘΑΜΑΡ ΦΑΡΕC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΕΣΡΩΜ ΕΣΡΩΜ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΑΡΑΜ {{field-off:Bible}}
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:4]]4{{field-on:Bible}} ΑΡΑΜ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΑΜΕΙΝΑΔΑΒ ΑΜΕΙΝΑΔΑΒ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΝΑΑΣΣΩΝ ΝΑΑΣΣΩΝ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΣΑΛΜΩΝ {{field-off:Bible}}
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:5]]5{{field-on:Bible}} ΣΑΛΜΩΝ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΒΟΕC ΕΚ ΤΗC ΡΑΧΑΒ ΒΟΕC ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΩΒΗΔ ΕΚ ΤΗC ΡΟΥΘ ΙΩΒΗΔ ΔΕ ΕΓΕΝΝΗΣΕΝ ΤΟΝ ΙΕΣΣΑΙ {{field-off:Bible}}
[[@Bible:Matthew 1:6]]6{{field-on:Bible}} not yet entered {{field-off:Bible}}

[[Hope someone has the fun of filling in all of the 'not yet entered' Lines But this is what the file will look like]]  

Posts 1004
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 23 2019 7:11 AM

EastTN:

MJ, this is dated, but might the Brooke McLean edition be a plausible source?  Of course, it's just the OT, so it only gets us half way there.

I withdraw this suggestion - it's not machine readable.

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 23 2019 7:04 PM

Please note that when we find text in this version of the Greek that is not in the TR version of the Greek we MUST not say 'missing text'.

Missing or added text requires a 'perfect standard', a 'standard of Excellence'. [[the Greek text that the Textual Critics are looking for - the perfect original Bible text]]

So what do we say when there is a difference?  We pick a text to be our standard of comparison.  For example we can pick the TR, or the majority. or the Critical text. 

Then when the other text has less text we state that the one under review has 'No Corresponding Text' when it is shorter than the comparison standard. 

[[I am still looking for a comparison term to use when the text under review is longer.]]  What I have done is added verse sub numbers numbers in the standard of comparison as in book John Chapter 3 Verse 16 sub 'b'.  Where John 3:16 'a' would be the reading we all know and the John 3:16 'b' would be some more text found in the text under review. The TR for John 3:16 'b' would read  'No Corresponding Text' as compared to the text under review.  

By adding sub verse numbers and using the words 'No Corresponding Text' for one or the other we are not judging which is correct just pointing out a difference.  

 

Posts 2372
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 24 2019 5:20 AM

Text Comparison with Codex Vaticanus [changed to lower case to match others] 

[[Having some fun seeing what I might be able to do with this]]

All bibles
Matthew 1:1
BYZ βιβλος γενεσεως ιησου χριστου υιου δαυιδ υιου αβρααμ
dummy 000 βιβλοc γενεσεωc ιησου χριστου υιου δαυειδ υιου αβρααμ
RVwh The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
ESV The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Just Greek Bibles
Matthew 1:1
BYZ βιβλος γενεσεως ιησου χριστου υιου δαυιδ υιου αβρααμ
dummy 000 βιβλοc γενεσεωc ιησου χριστου υιου δαυειδ υιου αβρααμ
SBLGNT Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.
TR1881 Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, υἱοῦ Δαβὶδ, υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.

[[Have noted a 'difference' in text that should be the same]]

[[Note that show differences does not work correctly. It shows the entire verses as different – might not work for Greek text]]
[[Where ‘DUMMY 000’ is our text Codex Vaticanus – changed to lowercase to match others]]
[[Have not been able to get Codex Sinaiticus to show up in the collection of Greek Bibles in text Comparison]]

Posts 3007
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2019 11:35 AM

David Ames:
When do we get Codex Vaticanus into Logos

As soon as possible?

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